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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

First post First post First post
Author
Shtu Lix
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#761 - 2014-04-09 20:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Shtu Lix
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Shtu Lix wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:
Cynabal (and the rest of the angel line): why not give them a bonus to point range (gallente) and falloff (minmatar) and make them the ultimate kiter faction?


+50% warp disruptor range role bonus would be much better than warp speed bonus and will not disrupt the PVE uses for this ship. It will help with not needing to fit an expensive faction point to an expensive dull ship (considering the changes to the other pirate ships and the boring warp speed bonus).

except everyone will still fit the RF warp disruptor on account of it being cheap and taking less than half the CPU of a T2 warp disruptor

A 54km point on a cruiser that is as fast and agile as most frigates and is custom-designed to murder said frigates seems pretty broken to me

And do crap / no damage at that range. An inty would be a better, faster and cheaper no damage solution in this scenario.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#762 - 2014-04-09 20:49:40 UTC
Shtu Lix wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Shtu Lix wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:
Cynabal (and the rest of the angel line): why not give them a bonus to point range (gallente) and falloff (minmatar) and make them the ultimate kiter faction?


+50% warp disruptor range role bonus would be much better than warp speed bonus and will not disrupt the PVE uses for this ship. It will help with not needing to fit an expensive faction point to an expensive dull ship (considering the changes to the other pirate ships and the boring warp speed bonus).

except everyone will still fit the RF warp disruptor on account of it being cheap and taking less than half the CPU of a T2 warp disruptor

A 54km point on a cruiser that is as fast and agile as most frigates and is custom-designed to murder said frigates seems pretty broken to me

And do crap / no damage at that range. An inty would be a better, faster and cheaper no damage solution in this scenario.

so you're admitting that the point range would be completely wasted on the cynabal

why have it then
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#763 - 2014-04-09 20:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Shtu Lix wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Shtu Lix wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:
Cynabal (and the rest of the angel line): why not give them a bonus to point range (gallente) and falloff (minmatar) and make them the ultimate kiter faction?


+50% warp disruptor range role bonus would be much better than warp speed bonus and will not disrupt the PVE uses for this ship. It will help with not needing to fit an expensive faction point to an expensive dull ship (considering the changes to the other pirate ships and the boring warp speed bonus).

except everyone will still fit the RF warp disruptor on account of it being cheap and taking less than half the CPU of a T2 warp disruptor

A 54km point on a cruiser that is as fast and agile as most frigates and is custom-designed to murder said frigates seems pretty broken to me

And do crap / no damage at that range. An inty would be a better, faster and cheaper no damage solution in this scenario.
It doesn't need to do damage at that range as it's speed will allow it to close in on most things it catches. Once it is in range it can out damage any inty. And even if not and the inty is still the better ship, that all the more reason the suggested is a bad idea since it adds nothing appreciable.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#764 - 2014-04-09 20:54:15 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/NpWi1Ux.png

I'm still maintaining that stuff like this is ridiculous. That's a lot of tank and dps for a cruiser, and you can't do this on an Ishtar. Oh, and before someone jumps on me, those two faction mods are not expensive.



You can already get 800+dps out of the Gila. Ask Laserzpewpew about ganking a hundred goons in a PvP Gila.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#765 - 2014-04-09 20:58:12 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/NpWi1Ux.png

I'm still maintaining that stuff like this is ridiculous. That's a lot of tank and dps for a cruiser, and you can't do this on an Ishtar. Oh, and before someone jumps on me, those two faction mods are not expensive.



You can already get 800+dps out of the Gila. Ask Laserzpewpew about ganking a hundred goons in a PvP Gila.

that is less a function of raw damage as it is a function of shooting at the EM hole that most Guristas ratting ships have
Shtu Lix
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#766 - 2014-04-09 20:58:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Shtu Lix
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Shtu Lix wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Shtu Lix wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:
Cynabal (and the rest of the angel line): why not give them a bonus to point range (gallente) and falloff (minmatar) and make them the ultimate kiter faction?


+50% warp disruptor range role bonus would be much better than warp speed bonus and will not disrupt the PVE uses for this ship. It will help with not needing to fit an expensive faction point to an expensive dull ship (considering the changes to the other pirate ships and the boring warp speed bonus).

except everyone will still fit the RF warp disruptor on account of it being cheap and taking less than half the CPU of a T2 warp disruptor

A 54km point on a cruiser that is as fast and agile as most frigates and is custom-designed to murder said frigates seems pretty broken to me

And do crap / no damage at that range. An inty would be a better, faster and cheaper no damage solution in this scenario.

so you're admitting that the point range would be completely wasted on the cynabal

why have it then

nice straw man argument. the point range bonus would be awesome for the whole angel line as it would go naturally with kiting tactics. the problem with the current point ranges (except faction) is that they are not scaling well with kiters, the sweet spot is at the limit of point range and you can easily lose the target with such an extremly narrow range for errors.

Edit: also what good the warp speed bonus will bring? the need for an all Cynabal fleet in order to use that speed bonus in roams?
Carmen Electra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#767 - 2014-04-09 21:05:29 UTC
KatanTharkay wrote:
Cynabal (and the rest of the angel line): why not give them a bonus to point range (gallente) and falloff (minmatar) and make them the ultimate kiter faction?


Because that would have a tangible effect on the game, which is exactly what the warp speed bonus is trying to avoid.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#768 - 2014-04-09 21:09:02 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/NpWi1Ux.png

I'm still maintaining that stuff like this is ridiculous. That's a lot of tank and dps for a cruiser, and you can't do this on an Ishtar. Oh, and before someone jumps on me, those two faction mods are not expensive.



You can already get 800+dps out of the Gila. Ask Laserzpewpew about ganking a hundred goons in a PvP Gila.

that is less a function of raw damage as it is a function of shooting at the EM hole that most Guristas ratting ships have



That's true of anyone shooting our ratters, be it solo Purifiers or small gangs of Maledictions with EM missiles.

My point is, the Gila can already do huge dps, and the tank isn't getting any real buff.
KatanTharkay
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#769 - 2014-04-09 21:15:16 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:
Cynabal (and the rest of the angel line): why not give them a bonus to point range (gallente) and falloff (minmatar) and make them the ultimate kiter faction?


Because that would have a tangible effect on the game, which is exactly what the warp speed bonus is trying to avoid.

Hahahahahha, I like your sarcasm man! :)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#770 - 2014-04-09 21:22:54 UTC
Quote:
Edit: also what good the warp speed bonus will bring? the need for an all Cynabal fleet in order to use that speed bonus in roams?

So you don't see the advantage to a roaming party to have a fast cruiser or two that is very survivable be able to warp ahead of their prey and catch them on the other side of the gate? It would easily be able to hold most ships for the few seconds it would take for the rest of the group to get there.

Sure, inty's can do that as well, but depending on the prey can be far less survivable and are more limited in other area's as well.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Carmen Electra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#771 - 2014-04-09 21:26:19 UTC
KatanTharkay wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:
Cynabal (and the rest of the angel line): why not give them a bonus to point range (gallente) and falloff (minmatar) and make them the ultimate kiter faction?


Because that would have a tangible effect on the game, which is exactly what the warp speed bonus is trying to avoid.

Hahahahahha, I like your sarcasm man! :)


My remark was indeed sarcastic, but I think it's actually pretty accurate as to what's happening here.

I would love to see a point bonus on the Cynabal TBH.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#772 - 2014-04-09 21:28:26 UTC
Shtu Lix wrote:
nice straw man argument. the point range bonus would be awesome for the whole angel line as it would go naturally with kiting tactics. the problem with the current point ranges (except faction) is that they are not scaling well with kiters, the sweet spot is at the limit of point range and you can easily lose the target with such an extremly narrow range for errors.

Edit: also what good the warp speed bonus will bring? the need for an all Cynabal fleet in order to use that speed bonus in roams?

So pointing out that according to your own reasoning the bonus being proposed is useless is a straw man argument? So sticking to the topic and addressing the weaknesses of the bonus directly is a misdirection of the argument over that very same bonus? Either the ship works with 50km points or it doesn't. If not, which was your argument, there is no good reason to add that.

As to your question, the same good it does for every ship which uses faster warping to catch prey before they have a chance to react.
Carmen Electra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#773 - 2014-04-09 21:31:56 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
So you don't see the advantage to a roaming party to have a fast cruiser or two that is very survivable be able to warp ahead of their prey and catch them on the other side of the gate? It would easily be able to hold most ships for the few seconds it would take for the rest of the group to get there.


This is one of those things that sounds great on paper but will not be so great in practice. We're talking about edge cases. Do you put warp speed rigs on your pvp cruiser?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#774 - 2014-04-09 21:32:22 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:
Cynabal (and the rest of the angel line): why not give them a bonus to point range (gallente) and falloff (minmatar) and make them the ultimate kiter faction?


Because that would have a tangible effect on the game, which is exactly what the warp speed bonus is trying to avoid.

Hahahahahha, I like your sarcasm man! :)


My remark was indeed sarcastic, but I think it's actually pretty accurate as to what's happening here.

I would love to see a point bonus on the Cynabal TBH.


they would have too increase its falloff and damage bonus too make a 30-35km worth it

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Carmen Electra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#775 - 2014-04-09 21:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

Harvey James wrote:
they would have too increase its falloff and damage bonus too make a 30-35km worth it

I get what you're saying from a solo PvP standpoint, but in a fleet setting, it'd be useful with falloff and damage as-is.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#776 - 2014-04-09 22:03:40 UTC
Rather than a range bonus to disruptors on Angel ships, they should get a strength bonus to disruptors and scrams. +1 would do nicely. Note that this would not turn a disruptor into a scram (still would need a scram to disable MWD), but would make the Angel ships better at holding those who do not want to be held.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#777 - 2014-04-09 22:09:51 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Rather than a range bonus to disruptors on Angel ships, they should get a strength bonus to disruptors and scrams. +1 would do nicely. Note that this would not turn a disruptor into a scram (still would need a scram to disable MWD), but would make the Angel ships better at holding those who do not want to be held.


Might even be able to hold some stabbed frigs fleeing from beacon in FW.
Sheimi Madaveda
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#778 - 2014-04-09 22:10:53 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
I think players will start jamming/td'ing/other ewar'ing Gila drones.


Or any Gurista drone, really. I'm not entirely sure how easy it is to jam them given the omni sensor strength... does that mean you have to jam each racial one, or get super lucky and win all the rolls with a multispec? If so, good luck jamming even a single heavy drone when they have a sensor strength of 22.5 on each sensor type.

Hmm, perhaps this will lead to altering drones to use only their native sensor type? It'd be interesting to see, at the least.


I think the Phantasm looks great compared to what it used to be. The capacitor is inherently better and since it only fits an MWD, not an AB, the cap life gets WAY better (also justifies some of the fitting that was taken away). The loss of a second utility high makes me a little sad but it is by far and away worth the +2 lows that it will receive. One thing I have noticed so far is that Sansha completely lacks any shield bonus... they just have more mid slots than lows. If the Nightmare gets +1 low slot, I would imagine that all Sansha ships could try to armor tank (albeit not fabulously) and use mids for dual web/TC/TD/Cap booster/SeBo or just about any other utility you could think of, just like their lore suggests. (efficient use of hardpoints to do lots of things)

The Ashimmu is going to be GREAT! Sure, people will moan and groan about the loss of a high slot, but if you think about it... Nos RoF bonus will make the new full Nos Ashimmu just as effective as the old Neut Ashimmu in terms of capping power, and with A-type Nos it will have a range of 19km no problem. What does it lose? Well, if loses a 90% web to have 2x60% 20km webs. Though if you have an Ashimmu it might be better to grab the Fed Navy ones to reach out to 30km before heat. There's whining about the fitting as well, but it makes no sense to me whatsoever - it no longer fits another neut/nos OR a medium cap booster, so if anything the fitting is getting a little bit better IMO. Maybe a bit tight on the CPU though, we'll see.

Not too sure what to say about the Cynabal. One of its largest strengths was the sheer versatility it had and while the warp bonus is certainly nice, I can't see it as a justification for reducing its fitting strengths. I'll have to see what the mass/agility changes do to it before I come to any conclusions.

Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.pngĀ 

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#779 - 2014-04-09 22:53:49 UTC
with the nerf to pg on Ashimmu it will nerf the ability too use deadspace nos and a T2 1600 plate and HPL 2's at the same time

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Rabbit P
Nuwa Foundation
The Therapists
#780 - 2014-04-10 01:54:10 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

ASHIMMU
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 208(+33) / .58 / 11010000 / 5.01s


according to the formula, the align time of ashimmu should be 8.85s
rise please check it again.