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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

First post First post First post
Author
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#781 - 2014-04-10 02:35:46 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Shtu Lix wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Shtu Lix wrote:
KatanTharkay wrote:
Cynabal (and the rest of the angel line): why not give them a bonus to point range (gallente) and falloff (minmatar) and make them the ultimate kiter faction?


+50% warp disruptor range role bonus would be much better than warp speed bonus and will not disrupt the PVE uses for this ship. It will help with not needing to fit an expensive faction point to an expensive dull ship (considering the changes to the other pirate ships and the boring warp speed bonus).

except everyone will still fit the RF warp disruptor on account of it being cheap and taking less than half the CPU of a T2 warp disruptor

A 54km point on a cruiser that is as fast and agile as most frigates and is custom-designed to murder said frigates seems pretty broken to me

And do crap / no damage at that range. An inty would be a better, faster and cheaper no damage solution in this scenario.

so you're admitting that the point range would be completely wasted on the cynabal

why have it then

That long a point range with a disruptor would certainly be a waste But fit a scram with that bonus and you suddenly have a very usable bonus.

** The box is - T . H . I . S - big. There is a big world of options outside it. **

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#782 - 2014-04-10 02:49:15 UTC
Carmen Electra wrote:

This is one of those things that sounds great on paper but will not be so great in practice. We're talking about edge cases. Do you put warp speed rigs on your pvp cruiser?


Nope, they're one of those things I'd love to put on, but I need the rig slots too badly for something else. What would be really awesome is if there was a ship that had a role bonus to warp speed so I didn't have to sacrifice fitting...

Oh, well damn. Would'ya look at that?
Draco Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#783 - 2014-04-10 06:09:10 UTC
ASHIMMU

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
20% bonus to Energy Vampire effectiveness AND RANGE (was 15% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer effectiveness)

Slot layout: 6H, 3M(-1), 6L(+1); 3 turrets, 0 launchers
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0(-10) / 0(-10)

No need for 4th med slot due to having 3 NOS, therefore -1 med slot and +1 high(back to 6)
Dronebay scraped. Cannot have it all.

Adjust capacitor and capacitor recharge level so it is not infinite stable(even after the nos buff), but should be stable running guns, mwd, point, web and 1 or even 2 armor reppers.

Should be treated as a support ship, able to put pressure on target's speed and capacitor from range with low damage output.
No conflict with the neuting curse.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#784 - 2014-04-10 06:31:40 UTC
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#785 - 2014-04-10 06:54:50 UTC
Sieonigh wrote:
For those of you are interested, i have some paper values of "regular fitting(s)"

these fits assume no implants / boosts / drugs or bananas

RLM fit.

[Gila Post patch, pvp]

Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II (x3)

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Drone Navigation Computer II (eg of mid drone mod use)
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile (x4)
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x2 (after the done changes these will be going 3 276m/s with the drone navi mod and 2 520 with out)

this fit has 2 CPU and <3 grid spair
DPS: 790~ (170 missls / 620 drones) all lvl 5 skills could push this to 800 easy
Tank: 52 000~ EHP Buffer (12 700 shield HP / EM:64 TH:61 KI:71 EX:75) passive 100 DPS regen
Speed: 1.75km/s
Targeting: 72.5km / 344 scan res

fits with HAMs and HMLs don't change the DPS much the main meat is the drones of course
fitting HAMs or HMLs will require CPU rig as well as the loss of the med nos and slight drop in tank.



I would change the Navigation computer for a Target painter, switch to fury missiles and replace a Drone Damage mod with a Balistic controle unit.
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#786 - 2014-04-10 07:16:03 UTC
Imiarr Timshae wrote:
Well I will simply never use my gila again.

Edit : I don't ever use my gila it's so bad already. I guess I'll just continue to never use my gila.

Good work as ever Roll (SARCASM)

Edit : Concerns over Gila

1. Far less damage
2. Inability to use sentry drones.
3. Removal of all shield tanking sentry ships (cruiser class) from the game.
4. Massive lack of adaptability.
5. Un-bonused light drones.

In short - You have nerfed the gila, which was admittedly already one of the worst pirate cruisers.


How have these concerns not been addressed in 40+ pages.

Is there anyone who actually use a gila who wants these ridiculous changes that make Guristas have extreme niche application?
NetheranE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#787 - 2014-04-10 08:31:51 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


Good job rolling back the Ash and Cyna grid-annihilations that you thought were justified, too bad it took over 30pages to get there. Seriously man.
Phant will be fine, people will get over the issues around it. Honestly, its a good change, I hope you can somehow transition this set of changes to the Nightmare, though god help you there.
The Vigilant changes are still painful, you're basically whacking a solid 20% armor off at the top end due to the trimark-anc loss, but I guess that's what you'd call "balance," eh Rise?
I'm still extremely perplexed with these Guristas changes. They were acceptable on the Worm, but here on the Gila, I think you've lost it a bit, and I sincerely do not think it will transition well to the Rattle. Go for a lower RoF bonus and not this ridiculously silly therm/kin bonus. That stuff is poor.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#788 - 2014-04-10 08:43:23 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
heh, that gila looks nice on paper, but that's it, in reallity an ishtar will be much better that the gilla in maibe 90% of the situations;

ppl here are all hyped up about new drones stats and stuff but most of them forgot about ishar or other drone boats having drone bonuses also, so comparing new drone stats of gila with old drone stats if a bit meh. "meh" like having a "drone boat" that can't launch 5 light drones ... "a DRONE boat"...

I think that except maibe one situation an ishtar will be more flexible that gilla while doing about the same amount of dps, and i don't see why anyone will chose to fly a gila over an ishtar, after losing the first one, ofc

P.S.
Rise, is this how you try to improve the usage of the new rlmls? cose really, this ship looks built with the use of light missiles in thought, not being able to use light drone to kill tackle and stuff; if this is the case, pls quit it and give us a true guristas ship, not this...this... half-breed?!
Ruaro
Space monitoring
#789 - 2014-04-10 08:44:09 UTC
I'm a bit concerned about role bonus instead of per-level bonus.

With new stats we can take Gila and like one week char - he could dish out a lot of DPS with quite a EHP. And take several of those and drone assist.

Also those tech 1 drones buffs.
Jamir Von Lietuva
Nameless Minions
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#790 - 2014-04-10 09:07:52 UTC
not a fan of the warp speed bonus..

to justify flying a ship that cost as much it has to be good playing on grid, not at warping around.. imo
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#791 - 2014-04-10 10:11:30 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

(and yes, I assigned the bonuses in a way that racially makes a lot more sense)


no you didn't, and your suggestions are bad
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#792 - 2014-04-10 10:22:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Ruaro wrote:
I'm a bit concerned about role bonus instead of per-level bonus.

With new stats we can take Gila and like one week char - he could dish out a lot of DPS with quite a EHP. And take several of those and drone assist.

Also those tech 1 drones buffs.


mm.. it seems the strange rigidity to be following the 2 racial skills and then 1 or 2 role bonuses is the problem here..

caldari
shi resists
missiles bonus

gallente
some of the drone HP and damage here

role bonus
the other part of the drone bonus

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Luscius Uta
#793 - 2014-04-10 10:32:05 UTC
While I think that the new Worm is great, I don't like the new Gila so much, even though such changes were to be expected (hopefully Rattlesnake won't be changed so drastically - I would just add one more launcher slot) and it's somewhat silly for a cruiser to have a drone bay that is surpassed only by carriers. I loved the sentry Gila, and I know people will say that Ishtar is a better sentry platform, but my PvE/Industry alt doesn't want to spend 20 more days tranining Gallente Cruiser V, since Ishtar is the only ship unlocked by it that he would actually want to use. While its huge boost to drone HP should make it much popular in PvP, its PvE abilities will be somewhat gimped, even if you put a drone navigation computer to speed up your mission completion times. But I guess that mostly means the old Gila was overpowered when it comes to most PvE activities.

Naturally Phantasm needed more love since it was among the least used ships in the game, but if you apply the same afterburner bonus on a Nightmare, you're going to be hated by Incursion communities so I expect the Nightmare to remain mostly unchanged. Extra speed and extra low slot could turn the Phantasm it a good kiting platform, despite the lack of range bonus that is seen on a Zealot or Navy Omen (which can be somewhat compensated by a pair of tracking enhancers).

Other three ships were somewhat gimped, especially when it comes to their powergrid, but I don't think the nerf was big enough to make them less popular, and I really like how is CCP Rise actually listening to player feedback. In previous iteration, Cybanal wasn't so much nerfed as it was castrated.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Gauro Charante
Vile Duck Pond
#794 - 2014-04-10 10:40:16 UTC
Wonder why they didn't give the SoE ships that "2 drones with massive bonus" instead of Guristas?! I mean aint the Rouge drones pretty much the a bad guy in the eyes of SoE and they are fighting them alot, or just studying them intensly.

This vey the Guristas boats would still be good all rounders and normal +10%HP/dps from Gallente skill, with a Role Bonus 50% damage to missile (or even shoehorne it for Rapids only 25% ROF and 25% bonus to reload times).

The SoE ships a re new and most people aren't really "used" to them in anyways......just think a Nestor with reps and 2 gigantic Sentrys...
KatanTharkay
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#795 - 2014-04-10 11:39:28 UTC
The Vaga is better than the current Cynabal for both brawling (hello boost bonus) and kiting (hello perma-run MWD). So, we have a Cynabal that currently overlaps with Minmatar ships with a new proposed warp speed bonus that will make them overlap with interceptors. The bad part is that the warp speed bonus will help only with the pure ganking playstyle (and that's almost PVE).
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#796 - 2014-04-10 11:48:22 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Gila changes make me sad.

Will be easily kited to death by a t1 frigate able to outrun slow mediums, and a 500% bonus to drone HP won't save them if a cruiser sized hull decides to pop drones. 4x the health of paper is still paper. And when one pops, you lose the vast majority of your dps.

Just ew. Bleeeh. Need to go sell my WH site fit Gila to people who don't read dev blogs before summer hits.

I honestly don't know what you have against the Guristas ships...


LOL - slightly absurd example there. If you're being kited by a frigate outrunning your 4875 m/s Valkyrie IIs, turn around and get out of his point range. That or put him down with your RLML IIs

I actually think this Gila change could be interesting. 2 Medium drones with the dps of 6 heavies and tank, speed and tracking of assault frigates has potential. Think of it as having a drone bay full of 10 Enyos that you can launch 2 at a time. If your target wastes his DPS taking out one of your drones, launch another one. You have 8 spares.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#797 - 2014-04-10 12:02:03 UTC
a frigate can kite and passively shield tank 200dps worth of 8km/s warrior IIs. you don't seriously think that some damage bonused lights on a TQ gila actually do anything, do you?
Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
#798 - 2014-04-10 12:33:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. ISD Ezwal.

Barking up the real tree again, its one thing that my eve mates have been stating, again and again.

I'm getting/using Ashimuu with these changes.

Vigilant is fine.

Gila, desperate to try it on Sisi. Looks good.

Phantasm, getting it back out, buying one.

Cynabal, selling it, dumping it, using a Rupture/Munnin/Loki/Stabber ....

So many people will just have a ship that doesn't take their fittings, and doesn't get used.

What is wrong with CCP? Effectively they don't know how to make Minmatar/Angels interesting. We have heard many ideas here, before the Warp speed intro, but nobody except CCP proposed it. For fleet work, warp speed means slowest. For solo work, it means nothing. For small gang work it mean "come with something useful'. The Cynabal is none of those 'interesting' things.

On the field it doesn't help anyone more than a cheap minmatar cruiser, its expensive and neutered by CCP for **** knows what reason. It wasn't 'overpowered', just better than most of the others. But it got the **** kicked out of it, and left with a useless bonus, while the others got interesting.

Want to get fast tackle in? Use an assault frig, faster more agile and can close to scram/web on the other side of that gate better. Am I alone in thinking this, and waiting for the hammer on the Mach?
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#799 - 2014-04-10 13:07:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
I've spent quite a while looking at what is possible with the new Phantasm and Ashimmu. Both have a lot of options available to them, so there will be many interesting ways to fit them which is good.

I've come up with quite a few fits now which I want to test out on Singularity. From initial impressions though, I reckon both ships look sound.

I'm not sure about how this AB bonus is going to work on the Nightmare though, perhaps consider increasing the boost speed from 20% to something a little higher to make it worthwhile.

Also Rise, yesterday you said the battleship proposals will be here soon! :)
Draco Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#800 - 2014-04-10 13:17:06 UTC
Give the ashimmu nos range bonus only and give back the 1 high slot, loose 1 med slot for the additional 1 low slot instead.
Would be so much more brawler!!!
Could even nano it with the additional speed boost... lol!

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu
Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu
Corpum A-Type Medium Nosferatu

Warp Disruptor II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I

Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I