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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Author
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#81 - 2014-04-07 17:06:19 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Suitonia wrote:

I think the Cynabal needs to find a new niche;


wtb rep bonus


vaga has that already

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

progodlegend
Syndicate Enterprise
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#82 - 2014-04-07 17:07:02 UTC
Angsty Teenager wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Phantasm is underwhelming ..
its dps is a little weak ... granted 5 lows opens up options..
its base speed isn't very impressive either
could do with lower sig radius too..


You're wrong, the phantasm is easily the best ship here now.

Rise, you need to buff the cynabal, it's currently a crappy ship RIGHT NOW, as it is overshadowed by the vagabond which is superior in all ways. A long time ago the cynabal was good when it was the king of speed and damage projection, but now that we have taloses, t1 cruisers that go as fast as the cynabal, and ships that are more tanky overall, the cynabal is a very very lackluster ship.


Phantasm army. It's coming.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#83 - 2014-04-07 17:07:21 UTC
I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.

I'll make sure we take another look though.

@ccp_rise

BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#84 - 2014-04-07 17:07:23 UTC
big miker wrote:
Can cargoholds please be specified with these balance changes?
I'd like to know if cargoholds are being buffed or nerfed, becuase they do have effect on ship balance.
The amount of cap charges and ammo a ship can carry is pretty important!



Agreed, anything that has a rep bonus especially needs a much bigger cargo hold

Why does the Nighthawk have 700m3 cargo while say the Mael only has 550
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#85 - 2014-04-07 17:07:43 UTC
Meh.

Keep shifting numbers in db, maybe at some point you will come out with something worth to be called expansion.

Invalid signature format

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#86 - 2014-04-07 17:08:40 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Suitonia wrote:

I think the Cynabal needs to find a new niche;


wtb rep bonus


vaga has that already


vaga has no mids though because shields. dual rep dual prop web scram would be nice.
Naomi Anthar
#87 - 2014-04-07 17:08:51 UTC
Aglais wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
gila still getting 15 slots really??? lose a high slot would be fair on all guristas ships
has very low mass for a combat cruiser
how high is its dps? .. 500% seems a little high combined with 4 launchers now?
10 hammerheads eh .. interesting never so generous to gallente droneboats


1. Stop with the endless spouting of removing a slot from Gurista ships "because other drone ships have that". This is a Pirate faction ship. Those restrictions do not apply because pirate faction ships are a much higher meta level. How do you not understand this.
2. Intended. Part of the Gurista 'flavour' has always been having comparatively light hulls. The Worm also follows this pattern, as does the Rattler.
3. Comparable to it's current DPS, but more balanced between missiles and drones rather than being purely drone based DPS (which may be helpful indeed), as far as I can tell.
4. Gurista ships are as much Gallente ships as they are Caldari, despite having the model of Caldari ships.


Sadly you are not right ... if you get 12 effective medium drones without even mounting gun... i would expect there should be some sort of compensation.

I don't want to complain on it ... luckily for me i got 60 gilas and around 70 worms ... gonna sell it then complain hahahaha
Capqu
Half Empty
#88 - 2014-04-07 17:09:59 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.

I'll make sure we take another look though.


rise dog you gotta tell the community that ur the boss and quit folding

they're right this time though, the cynabal sucks )))
Kmelx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-04-07 17:12:26 UTC
Please reconsider and remove the 90% web bonus from all serp ships or nerf it , removing it from the ashimmu is a great start, but don't leave it on the serp hulls.

In my experience 90% webs have two primary in game uses, that is to make gate camps inescapable because you cannot re-approach or it is extremely difficult in even the fastest ships, or they are used to slow ships down to the point where dreads track them so you can blap them. Neither of these mechanics are particularly desirable imo. Gate camping is pretty lame and so is dread blapping.

If you do want to keep a web strength bonus in game, how about this, keep it at 90% on the DD and then have the strength drop off on the vigi and the vindi, the bigger the hull the lower the strength of the web. That makes it possible to at least try to blap a DD on a gate and get out if you run across a camp using 90% webs and it nerfs dread blapping at the same time and gives you a better chance to re-approach if you run into someone camping with Vigilants for example.

So say 90% web on on the DD and 80% on the Vigi and 70% on the Vindi for web strength as figures I just pulled out of the air.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2014-04-07 17:12:26 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.

I'll make sure we take another look though.


imho, it doesn't really need something special, it just needs to be a really really good kiting ship
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#91 - 2014-04-07 17:14:01 UTC
"and frees it from overlap with the Ishtar (which simply does sentries better)" didn't need to mention that last part.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#92 - 2014-04-07 17:14:20 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.

I'll make sure we take another look though.


problem with doing nothing is that the other ships getting buffed will move ahead of it and you might have another phantasm problem.. and that was an epic screw up...

but Angel don't really have an identity anymore ... stabber/vaga/rifter all do the same role .. only unique ship is Machariel atm .. but then the vargur got buffed so only real bonus is the lower skill requirement now..

A stronger shield tank (forget omni tanking that should be a minnie thing)with stronger projectile bonuses (masters of projectiles)
dramiel shouldn't even have drones makes no sense really...

Serpentis could do with a stronger difference over gallente too .. its webs are insane OP still .. any chance of a web nerf? aswell as maybe reducing serpentis web to 7.5%?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#93 - 2014-04-07 17:14:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
CCP Rise wrote:
I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.

I'll make sure we take another look though.


Regarding vaga vs cynabal -

The only thing the cyna has going for it is an extra mid and some extra drones. The vaga has better tank, better cap (which is huge on mwd kite cruiser), better tank, etc.

Give the cynabal a double damage bonus (ie, same damage as now), 15% falloff (from 10%) and the old deimos mwd bonus. Maybe also give it small warp speed bonus (like same speed as t2 cruiser)
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#94 - 2014-04-07 17:15:00 UTC
Kmelx wrote:
Please reconsider and remove the 90% web bonus from all serp ships or nerf it , removing it from the ashimmu is a great start, but don't leave it on the serp hulls.


web range bonuses are also overpowered
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#95 - 2014-04-07 17:15:21 UTC
Kmelx wrote:
Please reconsider and remove the 90% web bonus from all serp ships or nerf it , removing it from the ashimmu is a great start, but don't leave it on the serp hulls.

In my experience 90% webs have two primary in game uses, that is to make gate camps inescapable because you cannot re-approach or it is extremely difficult in even the fastest ships, or they are used to slow ships down to the point where dreads track them so you can blap them. Neither of these mechanics are particularly desirable imo. Gate camping is pretty lame and so is dread blapping.

If you do want to keep a web strength bonus in game, how about this, keep it at 90% on the DD and then have the strength drop off on the vigi and the vindi, the bigger the hull the lower the strength of the web. That makes it possible to at least try to blap a DD on a gate and get out if you run across a camp using 90% webs and it nerfs dread blapping at the same time and gives you a better chance to re-approach if you run into someone camping with Vigilants for example.

So say 90% web on on the DD and 80% on the Vigi and 70% on the Vindi for web strength as figures I just pulled out of the air.


75% webs are twice as strong as 60% webs. I think your numbers are pretty decent, although maybe go 90/80/75 for web strength
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#96 - 2014-04-07 17:18:18 UTC
Also, here is an idea:

For all ewar bonuses (webs, tds, etc), make the bonus apply fully only to the 1st (best) ewar mod, and then have diminishing strength on further ewar.

So a curse might have 1 60% td, 1 50% td, and then normal strength tds after that.

Huginn might have 1 56km web 1 40km web, 1 20 km web, normal webs after that.
KiithSoban
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#97 - 2014-04-07 17:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: KiithSoban
Ashimu losing a high slot: No No No No No!!!

what is the ash supposed to do? Be the cruiser that counters logi by neuting. If you take away a high slot the only amount of neuting it will be able to do with reasonable cap stability is about -100 GJ/s. That is not enough to neut out a double-cap-X-ferring logi. The ash NEEDS its current highslot layout. It does not need the additional lowslot, it tanks fine. So there!

*whew*
Gila: great idea.
Phantasm: I lack input until I eft it.
Cyna: great. Expected.
Vigilant: It was already fine, but I still regret the -90% webs only when used with blap dreads.

I want to see logi appear on killmails! (by just repping)  See CSM "reasonable things"

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#98 - 2014-04-07 17:19:32 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
Also, here is an idea:

For all ewar bonuses (webs, tds, etc), make the bonus apply fully only to the 1st (best) ewar mod, and then have diminishing strength on further ewar.

So a curse might have 1 60% td, 1 50% td, and then normal strength tds after that.

Huginn might have 1 56km web 1 40km web, 1 20 km web, normal webs after that.


or make it so all its webs are 20km
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#99 - 2014-04-07 17:20:42 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
hey if we are going for crazy role bonus why not make angel ships mwd not shut down by scrams!??!?!?!

so basically all angel ships would be pre nano nerf ships.Pirate

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#100 - 2014-04-07 17:23:09 UTC
Nice gila nerf...
going from 793 dps with ogre / 751 dps with garde down to 636 dps

so a 157 dps NERF

big number stealth nerf there