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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#61 - 2014-04-07 16:46:21 UTC
Prediction:

Everything getting REKT by Phantasm Gangs.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2014-04-07 16:48:16 UTC
the cynabal remains underwhelming. the vaga is better in almost all situations :(
Rabbit P
Nuwa Foundation
Fraternity.
#63 - 2014-04-07 16:50:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rabbit P
CCP Rise wrote:

PHANTASM
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 228(+64) / .62(-.06) / 965000 / 8.25s

Phantasm mass now in TQ is 9,600,000

CCP Rise wrote:

ASHIMMU
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 208(+33) / 3.6 /1003000 / 5.01s

Ashimmu mass now in TQ is 11,010,000
and the agility


rise you just copy the states from the pirate frigate?
Requiescat
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2014-04-07 16:53:05 UTC
Capqu wrote:
vigilant still has its niche


-150 grid means no more 1600 plate and neutrons, which means that post-this patch, if you want to do actual dps in a cruiser hull you need to fly an ishtar, a sacrilege, or a t3.

thanks for encouraging diversity among cruiser enthusiasts now that you're done robbing us of battleship utility high slots, ccp rise.

ps: calling it right now - faction battleship "balance pass" leaves machariel with no utility high.

hi i'm requiescat, and i'm your best friendā™„
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#65 - 2014-04-07 16:53:19 UTC
Oh, btw, is it just me and do my fittings suck, or is there almost no way right now - and after Summer due to Cynabal PG nerf- to make Non-T2 Minmatar Cruisers be able to MWD around with Arties without needing to cram tons of fitting mods into them?
Alexsis Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2014-04-07 16:53:32 UTC
Just putting it out there that the Gila will be doing less dps with its 2 hammerheads than the Ishtar with sentries on top of the fact that the gila is now limited to not being able to field a full flight of any drones.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#67 - 2014-04-07 16:53:52 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Quote:
Vigilant:
Keeping the web bonus


does nobody else remember that huge thread we had where we all got mad about webs, and in particular, 90% webs? I'm fairly sure some CCPs agreed that webs are stupid.


What bonus could you possibly give the Vigilant other than that that differentiates it from the Deimos


you could leave it, but nerf webs down to 50%. they could let it dictate range with web or scram resistance or immunity. 90% webs are dumb and break the game.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#68 - 2014-04-07 16:56:57 UTC
gila still getting 15 slots really??? lose a high slot would be fair on all guristas ships
has very low mass for a combat cruiser
how high is its dps? .. 500% seems a little high combined with 4 launchers now?
10 hammerheads eh .. interesting never so generous to gallente droneboats

Cynabal still pretty much the same as a vaga really???
still omni tanked why? there shield tankers aren't they??
still very strong on drones?
sig radius nerf really?
really needs more identity away from minnie ships ... masters of projectiles and shield tanked is the description in ISIS not according to this rebalance they aren't either...

vigilant less pg why?
tank is still a little low
sig radius is a little high
nice job on the speed buff though..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#69 - 2014-04-07 16:58:52 UTC
Alexsis Solette wrote:
Just putting it out there that the Gila will be doing less dps with its 2 hammerheads than the Ishtar with sentries on top of the fact that the gila is now limited to not being able to field a full flight of any drones.


i think you're ignoring
1) garde/bouncer dps nerf upcoming
2) the 4 10% bonused launchers it will now have

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#70 - 2014-04-07 17:00:48 UTC
Hi Rise/Fozzie. I feel like the Cynabal overlaps far too much with the current Vagabond which currently is better in a lot of ways over the Cynabal and is generally superior. The Cynabal only offers better agility and a slightly better drone bay for all-around poorer performance. The extra mid does add some options but the vagabonds T2 resistances give a better performance than a 3rd tank items does from the Cynabal and the vagabonds shield boost bonus makes it the superior brawler. The vagabond has far better cap stability, t2 resists which help a lot for local/remote reps, better targeting stats and a powerful local rep bonus.

The cynabal only has a slight fitting advantage over the Vagabond if the Vagabond and Cynabal are both fitting 425mm Autocannons, otherwise, it's inferior. And that slight grid advantage doesn't allow you to offset the disadvantages.

I think the Cynabal needs to find a new niche;

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#71 - 2014-04-07 17:01:23 UTC
Gila with hams and faction missiles, hammers heads and 3x dda gets ~850 dps
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#72 - 2014-04-07 17:01:32 UTC
Alexsis Solette wrote:
Just putting it out there that the Gila will be doing less dps with its 2 hammerheads than the Ishtar with sentries on top of the fact that the gila is now limited to not being able to field a full flight of any drones.


yeah but the ishtar isn't exactly balanced in its current state, the only people who don't see it as game breaking and power creep personified are ccp

what cruisers weapon systems really need are significant hml buffs, slight ham buffs and slight 250mm rail nerfs and they'd be pretty well balanced. i am of course ignoring using sentries as a cruiser weapon because they should be battleship weapons and the fact that they have 125mm gun resolution is an anomaly that has yet to be corrected in my book

but i guess thats for another thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#73 - 2014-04-07 17:01:34 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Alexsis Solette wrote:
Just putting it out there that the Gila will be doing less dps with its 2 hammerheads than the Ishtar with sentries on top of the fact that the gila is now limited to not being able to field a full flight of any drones.


i think you're ignoring
1) garde/bouncer dps nerf upcoming
2) the 4 10% bonused launchers it will now have


Not to mention that 2x Hammerhead IIs will apply their DPS to Destroyer sized targets and above very well. Unlike Sentrys.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#74 - 2014-04-07 17:01:38 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
BadAssMcKill wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Quote:
Vigilant:
Keeping the web bonus


does nobody else remember that huge thread we had where we all got mad about webs, and in particular, 90% webs? I'm fairly sure some CCPs agreed that webs are stupid.


What bonus could you possibly give the Vigilant other than that that differentiates it from the Deimos


you could leave it, but nerf webs down to 50%. they could let it dictate range with web or scram resistance or immunity. 90% webs are dumb and break the game.


i think 35% T2 webs would be fine .. then add a web strength skill so it actually requires some time investment to get such strong e-war.. a 45% T2 web with the skill at lv5 would be good.. make webs use the new web strength skill .. so lv5 for T2 web

then reduce the serpentis web strength to 7.5% a level..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
#75 - 2014-04-07 17:01:44 UTC
Perhaps the Gila could do with a 100-200% Light Drone damage bonus just to top it off. Currently, 4 lights would do bugger all while the two mediums blaze away. 200% would mean they'd be competitive (12 equivalent) while 100% at least prevents them from being utterly ignored in the Gila (8 equivalent).
big miker
Frogleap Factories
#76 - 2014-04-07 17:02:57 UTC
Can cargoholds please be specified with these balance changes?
I'd like to know if cargoholds are being buffed or nerfed, becuase they do have effect on ship balance.
The amount of cap charges and ammo a ship can carry is pretty important!

Latest video: Ferocious 9.0 - Vertical Supremacy

Nano Naglfar!
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#77 - 2014-04-07 17:03:54 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
gila still getting 15 slots really??? lose a high slot would be fair on all guristas ships
has very low mass for a combat cruiser
how high is its dps? .. 500% seems a little high combined with 4 launchers now?
10 hammerheads eh .. interesting never so generous to gallente droneboats


1. Stop with the endless spouting of removing a slot from Gurista ships "because other drone ships have that". This is a Pirate faction ship. Those restrictions do not apply because pirate faction ships are a much higher meta level. How do you not understand this.
2. Intended. Part of the Gurista 'flavour' has always been having comparatively light hulls. The Worm also follows this pattern, as does the Rattler.
3. Comparable to it's current DPS, but more balanced between missiles and drones rather than being purely drone based DPS (which may be helpful indeed), as far as I can tell.
4. Gurista ships are as much Gallente ships as they are Caldari, despite having the model of Caldari ships.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#78 - 2014-04-07 17:04:23 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
Hi Rise/Fozzie. I feel like the Cynabal overlaps far too much with the current Vagabond which currently is better in a lot of ways over the Cynabal and is generally superior. The Cynabal only offers better agility and a slightly better drone bay for all-around poorer performance. The extra mid does add some options but the vagabonds T2 resistances give a better performance than a 3rd tank items does from the Cynabal and the vagabonds shield boost bonus makes it the superior brawler. The vagabond has far better cap stability, t2 resists which help a lot for local/remote reps, better targeting stats and a powerful local rep bonus.

The cynabal only has a slight fitting advantage over the Vagabond if the Vagabond and Cynabal are both fitting 425mm Autocannons, otherwise, it's inferior. And that slight grid advantage doesn't allow you to offset the disadvantages.

I think the Cynabal needs to find a new niche;


very much so ...
a stronger emphasis on projectile damage and projection over the vaga would make sense .. nerf armour tank in exchange

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#79 - 2014-04-07 17:04:30 UTC
Suitonia wrote:

I think the Cynabal needs to find a new niche;


wtb rep bonus
Naomi Anthar
#80 - 2014-04-07 17:05:59 UTC
You actually managed to post this thread and you also said BS are coming out this week. Cool..


Overral +1 i'm pleased with changes. Although ... why such nerf to phantasm CPU. Just beacuse it "should not use mwd" ? It is still 25 cpu difference not 45 between AB and mwd.

Also why 200 pwg nerf on Ashimmu ? Medium unstable power fluctator is 175 pwg also ...

I'm asking because thoser nerfs are bigger than it looks - it's pre 25% bonus from skill and/or x% bonus from implants.

Glad vigilant lost some pwg, but sadly you buffed it's other stats - like speed, lockrange. Mostly unwelcome buffs to this already overpowered ship.

Cynabal - you got outdated info it's no longer op ... now it will no longer be even decent. Same story with dramiel ... ship is going to be medicore at best.

Final oppinion :

Phantasm - 9/10 great ship . Should be best laser combat cruiser in this game , as it should be.

Ashimmu - 9/10 same as above. Less damage than phantasm - although additional low and more drones can actually help with this problem. I think dual web ashimmus can work without cap booster with new nos mechanics - yet to be seen.
Also it will be able to throw in additional heat sink so it may end up as decent solo pvp boat with maybe dual rep and with 2x 28km fed navy webs ...
It will still remain very good gang boat - huge utility as always, you can still fit it with neuts like always. 5 is still many.

Gila ... I like it. Yes honestly i like it very much. That is definition of unique bonus. 10/10. Should tank like beast and damage retaded damage. + drones wont die to smartbombs just like that.
If you complain about lack of sentries ... - you can still use ishtar, you can still use navy vexor or stratios. Thats good amounf of ships you can use to do the sentry job. Give gila a chance to be better at something else - and it will be.

Vigilant - op web bonus as always. Most welcome by anyone sane pwg nerf - but speed and lockrange as compensation - really uncessary. Ship will be for sure still super strong. Maybe that is good in the end . It's pirate ship in the end ... 6/10

Cynabal - sadly getting huge nerfs. It aint webbing like vigilant, it aint tanking like gila. It got nothing extraordinary for it going now. But it would be still good ship. If not that pwg/cpu nerf. 2/10

Cynabal is going pay ultimate price for outdate info of Devs ... CCP i agree ship used to be op. But with recent rebalances it's not that good anymore as it used to be. It is still very strong. And it should remain that way. A bit disapointed there.

With rest of ships : GOOD JOB.


I want to praise one thing especially : that you did not forget about missing phantasm slot. I expect nightmare gets same treatment.