These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

First post First post First post
Author
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#101 - 2014-04-07 17:23:28 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Nice gila nerf...
going from 793 dps with ogre / 751 dps with garde down to 636 dps

so a 157 dps NERF

big number stealth nerf there



It gets 850 dps with hams w/o rage
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#102 - 2014-04-07 17:23:53 UTC
Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#103 - 2014-04-07 17:24:44 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Nice gila nerf...
going from 793 dps with ogre / 751 dps with garde down to 636 dps

so a 157 dps NERF

big number stealth nerf there



does that include missiles in your numbers?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#104 - 2014-04-07 17:25:07 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down


The web strength on a single vigilant is more than every single loki, huginn and hyena in the game combined.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#105 - 2014-04-07 17:26:56 UTC
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down


not remove, just nerf massively
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2014-04-07 17:26:58 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
hey if we are going for crazy role bonus why not make angel ships mwd not shut down by scrams!??!?!?!

so basically all angel ships would be pre nano nerf ships.Pirate


Perma kiting Cynabals, Machariels that MWD around murdering all the things
Dramiels terrorizing interceptor gangs....

Hnnnggggggg

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#107 - 2014-04-07 17:28:44 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down


The web strength on a single vigilant is more than every single loki, huginn and hyena in the game combined.


3 web loki on a single nano mwding Deimos takes you down to ~320ms

Single Web Vigi takes you down to 260

If we're using blap dreads and gatecamps as a reason why 90% webs are so incredibly broken then I'm not really seeing a strong argument
Jamir Von Lietuva
Nameless Minions
GaNg BaNg TeAm
#108 - 2014-04-07 17:30:13 UTC
RIP Cyna

also nice nerf on Rail Vigilant while buffing it
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#109 - 2014-04-07 17:30:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
The Phantasm is a broken concept imo. What is the point in having all that speed if the lasers cannot track and the shield bumps up the signature. And I notice the increase in low slots, so are we expected to armour tank this thing now?

Sansha just seems like a completely broken concept now.

And lol at all the people getting excited that the Phantasm will be travelling some ridiculous speed, completely forgetting the fact that it is not a tengu or a loki fitted with missiles, so your going to be hitting f all.

Edit - Why not just balance the armour and shield of the sansha ships now, including the succubus, because if you are seriously wanting to offer people a dual option to tank, then the stats should reflect that.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#110 - 2014-04-07 17:31:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down


The web strength on a single vigilant is more than every single loki, huginn and hyena in the game combined.


3 web loki on a single nano mwding Deimos takes you down to ~320ms

Single Web Vigi takes you down to 260

If we're using blap dreads and gatecamps as a reason why 90% webs are so incredibly broken then I'm not really seeing a strong argument


Single web vigilant takes you to 10% speed.

Triple web loki takes you to 12.5% speed.

You go 25% faster under 3 loki webs than with 1 vigilant web.

If the vigilant has 2 webs btw, you go 2.1% speed. You cant web a ship down this much with any number of 60% webs. You could literally take every single 60% web in jita, apply it to a ship, and it will go about 5x faster than it would under 2 vigilant webs.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#111 - 2014-04-07 17:33:24 UTC
the relevance of frigates that aren't interceptors or very long range ewar frigates
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#112 - 2014-04-07 17:34:42 UTC
GILA

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
30% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints(was 10% drone damage and hitpoints)

Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances
10% bonus to kinetic and thermal missile damage

Role Bonus:
250% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket max velocity)


Slot layout: 4(-1)H, 6M, 4L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 670 PWG(+40), 400 CPU(+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3000(-188) / 2200(-125) / 2300(-190)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1400(+25) / 530000 (-1250) / 2.85
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / .60 / 10600000 (+1000000)/ 8.78s(not sure)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 20(-105) / 80(-320)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 58km (+3km) / 285 / 7
Sensor strength: 22
Signature radius: 145(-5)

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#113 - 2014-04-07 17:35:36 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Guess we should remove Lokis, Huginns and Hyenas as well cause someone might get slowed down


The web strength on a single vigilant is more than every single loki, huginn and hyena in the game combined.


3 web loki on a single nano mwding Deimos takes you down to ~320ms

Single Web Vigi takes you down to 260

If we're using blap dreads and gatecamps as a reason why 90% webs are so incredibly broken then I'm not really seeing a strong argument


Single web vigilant takes you to 10% speed.

Triple web loki takes you to 12.5% speed.

You go 25% faster under 3 loki webs than with 1 vigilant web.

If the vigilant has 2 webs btw, you go 2.1% speed.


True true, however the Vigilant is only going to get max ~18km webs while the Loki gets like 47km

You also have less mids to play around with depending on the configuration less tank but more speed and more dps

But I've never really seen 90% webs are broken, sure there could be some balancing effort made but its a nice bit of flavor and makes Serpentis ships useful
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#114 - 2014-04-07 17:38:47 UTC
PHANTASM

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret tracking speed was (7.5%)

Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)


Slot layout: 4H(-1), 6M, 5L(+2); 3 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 890 PWG(-35), 380 CPU(-45)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2700(+266) / 2175 / 2065
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1800(+105) / 495000 (+3750) / 3.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 248(+84) / .62(-.06) / 965000 / 8.25s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25(+10) / 25(+10)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 59km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 110(-20)

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#115 - 2014-04-07 17:39:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dun'Gal
Will hold my opinions until the you fix the stats on the Ashimmu, instead of the obviously copy/pasted stats from the Cruor. Bah, who am I kidding? I can't hold my opinions... I think you've made an equally bad mistake with the Ashimmu, though I will admit you've made up for it some with a few of the other stat changes. Giving it more drones/cap/targetting range and a hair more mobility is nice, losing a high for a low is interesting, but whatever I can live with that. The PG nerf is, well it's a lot. I still feel strongly that you are making a mistake with the web change, but it will be less crushing on the Ashimmu which has slightly more range on it's neuts, and it's guns so it can actually use that extra range.

All that said, the fact that you gave the Serpentis a SPEED boost while allowing it to retain that 90% web is absolutely stupid, and so unbelievably backwards. They must have good dope in Iceland. I'll say it here just like I said it in the other thread, nerf the problem ships (Serpentis,) not the other ships (Blood Raiders) that just happen to have the same bonus but aren't considered a problem. I will never understand your logic, honestly. Also the release of that devblog you were waiting for has done nothing to help either of these (blood) ships. The only effect on pirate ship rebalancing was on the Guristas line, which you seem to have done a good job on. On that subject I will say you've done well with both Guristas and Sansha, however I've noticed a trend in your threads which is, they are the ONLY ships people seem to be excited to try out.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#116 - 2014-04-07 17:40:42 UTC
Stop crying about the serpentis ships, they were legitimately the only really unique ships left in game that didn't suck.

Oh god no not the massive herds of 90% web ships ruining the game...oh wait thats not a thing never mind stop crying about being webbed.


Awesome changes Rise

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Suitonia
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#117 - 2014-04-07 17:42:50 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I'll get together with the other balance guys and talk about the Cynabal asap and get back to you all. We talked initially about the overlap between Angel and Minmatar and decided to try and make it work without making large changes. All three Angel ships are very popular (relative to other pirate faction ships) and generally regarded as 'fun' as far as I know, so risking negative impact with a bigger change didn't seem worthwhile.

I'll make sure we take another look though.


Well Currently the Vagabond is always going to be a stronger brawler (due to resists + shield boost bonus) and it still performs better than the Cynabal as a Disruptor range kiter with autocannon falloff. (Similar DPS/Projection to the Cynabal, only the Vaga offers more general improvements as listed before (Cap, sensor strength, Signature Radius MWD reduction, resist bonuses for friendly logistics etc.). The only role that the Cynabal really performed better than the Vagabond was with Artillery as the superior fitting options allowed the cynabal to fit Artillery without needing to make the same sacrifices that the Vagabond does. Which you have now removed. Honestly the current Cynabal is only really flown by people using Artillery or by people who don't have Heavy Assault Cruisers level 5.

I personally think you should probably revert the Powergrid nerfs and leave it as is. Then it's still the better option for people who want to use Artillery on a mobile platform.

What about giving the Cynabal a large drone bay (say 75m3-100m3), this would give it some synergy with the Dramiel which also has a large unbonused drone bay for a Frigate. So it would be able to increase damage output at the expense that these are un-bonused drones which can be picked off fairly easily (especially if the Cynabal is kiting at range) this would improve it as a Brawler without overlapping with the Vagabond, as the Cynabal would have higher DPS but not as tanky, and it would have the option to improve its DPS at range by using 73m5 combo or heavy drones, but this would be risky as there is a high probability that a smart target could kill them to remove damage, and they move slowly so would make the cynabal more at risk to small fast targets and potentially lower DPS vs other mobile ships.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o

Naomi Anthar
#118 - 2014-04-07 17:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Anthar
Medalyn Isis wrote:
The Phantasm is a broken concept imo. What is the point in having all that speed if the lasers cannot track and the shield bumps up the signature. And I notice the increase in low slots, so are we expected to armour tank this thing now?

Sansha just seems like a completely broken concept now.

And lol at all the people getting excited that the Phantasm will be travelling some ridiculous speed, completely forgetting the fact that it is not a tengu or a loki fitted with missiles, so your going to be hitting f all.

Edit - Why not just balance the armour and shield of the sansha ships now, including the succubus, because if you are seriously wanting to offer people a dual option to tank, then the stats should reflect that.


You are talking like almost mwd speed that is not getting owned my scram is not godsend thing ... mkay.
You can manually adjust your speed while flying ... and pilot your ship also - instead of orbiting 24/7. It helps to hit stuff, trust me.
But you can also just move fast as hell to catch something you want to catch or disengage if you have to. You are really thinking it's nothing ? Cmon.

Nah 2 more lows are good stuff - you can armor tank it now. But sure you are not forced to do so. 6 mids are still 6 mids - that is a lot on cruiser. If people shield tank cruisers with 3 or 4 mids - i'm sure you can still shield tank ship with 6 mids.

Look at lows as place where you can get nanos, heat sinks, tracking enhancers (for your problem to hit the stuff - it also does work better on phantasm due to hull tracking bonus).

Phantasm is strong, period - about the fking time ;).
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#119 - 2014-04-07 17:43:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Destoya
Where's Dinsdale, this is yet another DEVASTATION of sentry drones by the null-sec mafia.

In seriousness though, the PG amounts on Cynabal and Gila are worrying me a lot.

Gila used to completely forgo any missiles since it was focused on the sentry range and lack of CPU after drone module. While these super-bonused mediums do a lot of damage, it's still a DPS increase unless you consider the new missile bonus. However, it sort of lacks the powergrid to do anything with that, and still lacks the PG to effectively perform as a brawling cruiser. I have to EFT it up a bit but it just seems pretty awkward.

On Cynabal as others have stated already it's pretty disappointing since the ship wasn't terribly strong before. It also basically removes the kiting arty cynabal, a niche role for the ship which I really enjoyed. With the other fast cruisers (namely vagabond) as strong as they are, it's hard for me to justify this nerf.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#120 - 2014-04-07 17:44:44 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Stop crying about the serpentis ships, they were legitimately the only really unique ships left in game that didn't suck.

Oh god no not the massive herds of 90% web ships ruining the game...oh wait thats not a thing never mind stop crying about being webbed.


Awesome changes Rise


so its ovepoweredness is determined by how many people use it?