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Null sec what chance does the little guy have

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Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#361 - 2014-02-15 01:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Romanov
Pinky Hops wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Why would we bother moving back and forth if we could just plant enough people at each front?


And this is why you aren't in charge of alliance strategy.



List of SOV alliances crushed by Spartan's DNA:


*crickets*


And that is (one of many reasons) why you can safely be ignored.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#362 - 2014-02-15 01:02:09 UTC
Onictus wrote:

Anything that "helps the little guy" helps the big guys more.


This isn't always true. And I'm not suggesting any mechanic that would be overpowered by scaling your coalition size.

Onictus wrote:

.....oh so who can support more fronts?

So some medium sized alliance manages to take a system what stops the CFC from diverting a couple fleets and steam rolling them back into NPC null/Low sec wherever they came from. With 30 some odd thousand members we can zerg down most allainces quickly and easily.


A large group can split up their forces to fight on multiple fronts, where a small group won't have the resources. However, under the current situation, the large group doesn't even NEED to fight on multiple fronts, as they can transition their ENTIRE force from one front to another pretty easily. That is a problem, because the standard way for dealing with a large coalition is divide and conquer, and it's pragmatically impossible to truly divide forces.

Onictus wrote:

Removing the timers would just make it faster because the smaller guy wouldn't have the time to batphone.


Again, I said remove timers on UNUSED systems... If you use the system, big or small, you get RF timers. If you don't use a system, it can be easily taken. Generally speaking, the small guys thoroughly utilize everything they can. It is the big coalitions that own huge amounts of unused territory. This mechanic would SPECIFICALLY hurt large coalitions with little impact on the small folk.


Onictus wrote:

Removing jump mechanics just makes it MORE ******* annoying to live in null. Ever been to Paragon Soul, or Cache, or The Spire they are 4+ REGIONS deep into null, + a region sometimes two of low sec. Removing the ability to get **** in and out would just mean that the game is more annoying that its worth.

[/quote]

I've destroyed ships in Every region of the game, and have visited about 95% of the k-space systems. I know what is involved in flying on a 100 system roam, because I ACTUALLY DO IT. Yes, it would make living in the distant areas more difficult. My group has based out of Venal several times in the past, and Marlona's restrictions would essentially make such a move very hard on my corp. It would also kill black frog! I thoroughly understand what this entails.

I think we should look for insight from long term veterans that enjoyed nullsec prior to jump drive ships, or at least prior to JFs.

Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#363 - 2014-02-15 01:06:24 UTC
21 pages of smack talk about how not to have fun in this game. Sigh.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#364 - 2014-02-15 01:08:21 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


I think we should look for insight from long term veterans that enjoyed nullsec prior to jump drive ships, or at least prior to JFs.




I think me and my four other accounts would say the hell with it. Logistics is already like 40% of my time, moving for deployment, keeping cyno chains where they need to be and getting things in to market/out of market.

Anymore and its just not worth it, I don't want to play logistics online, I ******* HATE move ops.
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
#365 - 2014-02-15 01:17:40 UTC
SOV and Capitals made 0.0 what it is today. 4 Communist countries basically! Roll
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#366 - 2014-02-15 01:52:34 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Sarah Nalelmir wrote:
Its sad that CFC are allowed to own so much of Null. There should be a limit on what can be cvlaimed by a particular corp/alliance.

I would prefer to see an even spread of corps/alliances rather than just one big blob of colour.


But that wouldn't be a sandbox, player controlled space would it then. CFC and N3/PL own most of nullsec because they conquered most of nullsec.

Its also worth pointing out that the CFC/N3 coalitions are not defined by an in game mechanic - there is no coalition mechanic, they're both made up of alliances with agreements between them. That isn't CCP's fault - the poor sov mechanics are.

The reason CFC is so big is because of the non-sandbox elements. Timers are not sandbox. They're themepark. The entire sov mechanic is themepark. There's only one way to do. You can't sneak a base, you can't do anything but reinforce an asset and then turn up at the allotted time for the battleground...

The only difference to WoW battlegrounds is in EVE the battlegrounds start after 24 hours when everyone is on for the zerg.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#367 - 2014-02-15 02:16:37 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

The reason CFC is so big is because of the non-sandbox elements. Timers are not sandbox. They're themepark. The entire sov mechanic is themepark. There's only one way to do. You can't sneak a base, you can't do anything but reinforce an asset and then turn up at the allotted time for the battleground...

The only difference to WoW battlegrounds is in EVE the battlegrounds start after 24 hours when everyone is on for the zerg.

There is some merit to this point tbh.

It should be noted that removing the timer based system would definitely hurt the larger guys that hold most of sov (and hence have everything to loose) while not hurting the "little guy" since he doesn't have space to loose anyway.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#368 - 2014-02-15 02:28:47 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

The reason CFC is so big is because of the non-sandbox elements. Timers are not sandbox. They're themepark. The entire sov mechanic is themepark. There's only one way to do. You can't sneak a base, you can't do anything but reinforce an asset and then turn up at the allotted time for the battleground...

The only difference to WoW battlegrounds is in EVE the battlegrounds start after 24 hours when everyone is on for the zerg.

There is some merit to this point tbh.

It should be noted that removing the timer based system would definitely hurt the larger guys that hold most of sov (and hence have everything to loose) while not hurting the "little guy" since he doesn't have space to loose anyway.


Not really. Without timers, yes fights may be more dynamic in that they could occur without warning at any time. However, guess which group is more likely to have bodies available in all timezones to attack and defend systems?

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#369 - 2014-02-15 02:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Arkady Romanov wrote:

Not really. Without timers, yes fights may be more dynamic in that they could occur without warning at any time. However, guess which group is more likely to have bodies available in all timezones to attack and defend systems?

So, let's got through this:

1) Removing timers (may or may not be a good idea) would make defending space harder.
2) The big guy currently has lots of space to defend.
3) The little guy currently has no space to defend.

Hmmmmmm....let's think.....whom does this change hurt more? Sure the little guy might not be able to hold space (with or without timers) but he may be able to take space for a little bit, which is a better situation than what is currently on tranquility.

And infinity ziona does have a point, it is an arbitrary themepark mechanic. You do convert arbitrary systems into battlegrounds at the appointed hour.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#370 - 2014-02-15 03:00:34 UTC
Oh I don't disagree that timers are arbitrary, but I tend to trust the judgment of others who've experienced both forms of SOV system who feel it is the lesser of two evils.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Emma Muutaras
State War Academy
Caldari State
#371 - 2014-02-15 03:23:02 UTC
a lot of you guys seam to be proving a simple point join a big coalition and kiss PVP goodbye with the exception silly 2000 man battles in tidi + lag or don't bother even trying.

NPC-Null is a idea good place to start at least

still some have you cfc dudes have kinda pointed out sov wise the little guy don't stand a chance.

Has they say its human nature to clump together and get bigger hence the current sandbox situation we currently have.

if a small 850 man alliance went to try and take say Executive outcomes space which i believe is bigger a bigger alliance they would quickly find there not just fighting the sov holders but all the CFC even though executive outcomes by its self is bigger.

i find the idea of renting space distasteful the the alliance renting the space needs to do so much work to make sure they earn enough to pay the end of month bill not to mention other projects such as caps/supercaps if they wanna grow. meanwhile the people there renting off just sits there watching the isk role in. while im not privy to the details of how much is made by each coalition per month but i would be surprised if it wasn't at least 100 bil a month.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#372 - 2014-02-15 03:37:19 UTC
It is way, way way more than 100bill a month for the larger rental alliances.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Emma Muutaras
State War Academy
Caldari State
#373 - 2014-02-15 03:49:05 UTC
Arkady Romanov wrote:
It is way, way way more than 100bill a month for the larger rental alliances.


That's kinda my point the large coalitions just get stronger and stronger off the work and effect of those there renting to and in return for all the renters hard work there still probably struggling to balance the books well unless they got a ton of bots working 23/7.
Johnson 1044
Johnson Organic Produce
#374 - 2014-02-15 03:58:31 UTC
Move into a c3 wormhole. I just spent a year in one and I have 50 bil in my wallet now. And I did it alone with an alt. Nul favors coordinated groups but its not your only option.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#375 - 2014-02-15 04:01:57 UTC
You can sign up for the wonderful Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere :)

Renters Shocked

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#376 - 2014-02-15 08:55:07 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
You can sign up for the wonderful Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere :)

Renters Shocked

Or you can read my guide on taking back your content for free and have the whole galaxy at no cost :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#377 - 2014-02-15 12:38:57 UTC
Arkady Romanov wrote:
Oh I don't disagree that timers are arbitrary, but I tend to trust the judgment of others who've experienced both forms of SOV system who feel it is the lesser of two evils.


It is.

Anyone who dealt with pre Dominion sov would never say such a stupid thing as "remove timers". System timezone ping pong is beyond asinine. There is ZERO incentive to set down roots, build anything, or actually live there.

Especially not since you can make better money in highsec now.

Suggesting it is an act of pure ignorance.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#378 - 2014-02-15 12:57:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Arkady Romanov wrote:
Oh I don't disagree that timers are arbitrary, but I tend to trust the judgment of others who've experienced both forms of SOV system who feel it is the lesser of two evils.


It is.

Anyone who dealt with pre Dominion sov would never say such a stupid thing as "remove timers". System timezone ping pong is beyond asinine. There is ZERO incentive to set down roots, build anything, or actually live there.

Especially not since you can make better money in highsec now.

Suggesting it is an act of pure ignorance.

System ping pong only occurs because you fail to recruit properly. There's nothing stopping you from recruiting people from other time zones except your own laziness.

If a coalition holds 500 systems but can't defend them at all hours of the day then they can't hold those 500 systems. That's just too bad. Recruit intelligently or fail. This theme park BS for alliances is bad for EvE.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#379 - 2014-02-15 13:05:48 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

System ping pong only occurs because you fail to recruit properly. There's nothing stopping you from recruiting people from other time zones except your own laziness.

If a coalition holds 500 systems but can't defend them at all hours of the day then they can't hold those 500 systems. That's just too bad. Recruit intelligently or fail. This theme park BS for alliances is bad for EvE.


This is the Infinity Ziona solution to the problems caused by her suggestions. You should be forced to recruit from all timezones, otherwise you shouldn't bother showing up to sov null.

Talk about your barrier to entry. That's inarguably worse than the current situation.

It's not "themepark" for there to be a system that allows you to actually muster a defense instead of being swept while you sleep. That's just your latest whiny talking point.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#380 - 2014-02-15 13:20:13 UTC
casoff's had good fights thanks to timers, guess some people are just doing it wrong