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Null sec what chance does the little guy have

First post First post
Author
Onictus
Capital Fusion.
Pandemic Horde
#421 - 2014-02-15 19:15:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Is there an alternative? During the HED-GP fight there were a dozen threads about how to fix the broken nature of Sov and power projection. I don't want the little guy dicked over. I also don't want to **** over CFC into having to re-win the space they've earned. But doesn't something have to give?

i don't want to comment on sov mechanics. i'm just pointing out (again) that ziona has absolutely no interest in any 'little guy', ziona just wants to be able to destroy cfc pocos without having to fight the players who own them. and is unable to consider what that change'd do to the 'little guy' who owns structures

Lol. What a load of garbage.

I don't have any interest in POCOs per see. I didn't even bother trying to take down its 10,0000,000 hp because the stupid thing would reinforce. The point I was making regarding the POCO was how bad of a system it shows EvE to have.

When Goons bought Period basis, there were no Goons at all in the region for months. My point was despite zero Goons within 100 jumps Nobody would have been able to destroy anything because trying to, despite no Goons, the POCO would have sent an email instantly, then become invulnerable for 24 + hours and by that time Goons could dump a crapload of ships on whoever was trying to destroy the structure.

It clearly showed how big alliances could "claim" regions anywhere in EvE, and despite having no forces anywhere nearby completely stifle any chance of anyone who could and would use that space from having any space.



Yeah so.

What is it to you? You couldn't defend PB if you v wanted to, the same way Unclaimed and Tribe couldn't.....if a pair of +1000 man alliances couldn't hold PB you and your ten alts damn sure couldn't.

You know the trick to PB? You need to hold our at least have standings with whomever holds Querious AND Delve our you have no way back to empire without going through 50 jumps off hostile space.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#422 - 2014-02-15 19:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
Infinity Ziona wrote:

When Goons bought Period basis, there were no Goons at all in the region for months. My point was despite zero Goons within 100 jumps Nobody would have been able to destroy anything because trying to, despite no Goons, the POCO would have sent an email instantly, then become invulnerable for 24 + hours and by that time Goons could dump a crapload of ships on whoever was trying to destroy the structure.


This is a nutshell is precisely why most people that could get involved in nullsec in a meaningful way avoid it like the plague, and why so many null systems are "empty." Right now you have 2 choices, join the blob or stay in high/low.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#423 - 2014-02-15 19:20:14 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

When Goons bought Period basis, there were no Goons at all in the region for months. My point was despite zero Goons within 100 jumps Nobody would have been able to destroy anything because trying to, despite no Goons, the POCO would have sent an email instantly, then become invulnerable for 24 + hours and by that time Goons could dump a crapload of ships on whoever was trying to destroy the structure.


This is a nutshell is precisely why most people that could get involved in nullsec in a meaningful way avoid it like the plague, and why so many null systems are "empty." Right now you have 2 choices, join the blob or stay in high/low.


Sov is the teamwork part of the game.

You lot have still failed to explain why you actually deserve the stuff you keep telling us teh soloh playerz are entitled to. And, "because I want it" isn't really a good answer, just to let you know ahead of time.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#424 - 2014-02-15 19:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Onictus wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Is there an alternative? During the HED-GP fight there were a dozen threads about how to fix the broken nature of Sov and power projection. I don't want the little guy dicked over. I also don't want to **** over CFC into having to re-win the space they've earned. But doesn't something have to give?

i don't want to comment on sov mechanics. i'm just pointing out (again) that ziona has absolutely no interest in any 'little guy', ziona just wants to be able to destroy cfc pocos without having to fight the players who own them. and is unable to consider what that change'd do to the 'little guy' who owns structures

Lol. What a load of garbage.

I don't have any interest in POCOs per see. I didn't even bother trying to take down its 10,0000,000 hp because the stupid thing would reinforce. The point I was making regarding the POCO was how bad of a system it shows EvE to have.

When Goons bought Period basis, there were no Goons at all in the region for months. My point was despite zero Goons within 100 jumps Nobody would have been able to destroy anything because trying to, despite no Goons, the POCO would have sent an email instantly, then become invulnerable for 24 + hours and by that time Goons could dump a crapload of ships on whoever was trying to destroy the structure.

It clearly showed how big alliances could "claim" regions anywhere in EvE, and despite having no forces anywhere nearby completely stifle any chance of anyone who could and would use that space from having any space.



Yeah so.

What is it to you? You couldn't defend PB if you v wanted to, the same way Unclaimed and Tribe couldn't.....if a pair of +1000 man alliances couldn't hold PB you and your ten alts damn sure couldn't.

You know the trick to PB? You need to hold our at least have standings with whomever holds Querious AND Delve our you have no way back to empire without going through 50 jumps off hostile space.

"Yeah so" . . . It clearly shows you didn't earn your space and the only reason you keep it is because timers and auto emails along with power projection allows you to. In short these big blocs are completely propped up not by hard work and effort but by timers.

Without automatic emails and timers to protect "your PB" and not a CFC in sight for months, that space would have been taken by people who would have fought for it and used it.

CFC are simply riding the timer gravy train for everything it's worth. It's why you get all constipated and outraged when anyone criticizes timers.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#425 - 2014-02-15 19:28:27 UTC
"teams" and "teamwork" in a game usually consist of equal sides ... maybe come up with a better term

"turkey shoot" would be a better one

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#426 - 2014-02-15 19:30:42 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
"teams" and "teamwork" in a game usually consist of equal sides ... maybe come up with a better term

"turkey shoot" would be a better one


So, you're telling me you do want WoW Battlegrounds, then? Not a sandbox?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#427 - 2014-02-15 19:49:56 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Right now you have 2 choices, join the blob or stay in high/low.


3 choices - NPC nullsec is an option.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#428 - 2014-02-15 19:53:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhes
Infinity Ziona wrote:
CFC are simply riding the timer gravy train for everything it's worth. It's why you get all constipated and outraged when anyone criticizes timers.

I get outraged when a single person thinks they should be able to destroy sov structures (or POCOs) on their own with impunity.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#429 - 2014-02-15 19:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
"teams" and "teamwork" in a game usually consist of equal sides ... maybe come up with a better term

"turkey shoot" would be a better one


So, you're telling me you do want WoW Battlegrounds, then? Not a sandbox?


Since you can't read, I'm telling you that team and teamwork aren't proper terms for sov warfare.

Rhes wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
CFC are simply riding the timer gravy train for everything it's worth. It's why you get all constipated and outraged when anyone criticizes timers.

I get outraged when somebody thinks they should be able to destroy sov structures (or POCOs) on their own with impunity.


But you're perfectly fine with mechanics to let you defend your assets even though you're staged on the other side of the galaxy. Talking of feeling entitled. Last I checked it's pretty impossible to destroy something with "impunity" when the defenders live in the system or nearby systems.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#430 - 2014-02-15 20:01:34 UTC
Emma Muutaras wrote:
what chance does a small alliance/corp that wants to be independent of the big boys have in getting a foothold in null?


None.

Absolutely none.

Feel free to write to your local null-sec alliance lobbyist CSM representative. I'm sure they'll by sympathetic.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#431 - 2014-02-15 20:02:04 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

When Goons bought Period basis, there were no Goons at all in the region for months. My point was despite zero Goons within 100 jumps Nobody would have been able to destroy anything because trying to, despite no Goons, the POCO would have sent an email instantly, then become invulnerable for 24 + hours and by that time Goons could dump a crapload of ships on whoever was trying to destroy the structure.


This is a nutshell is precisely why most people that could get involved in nullsec in a meaningful way avoid it like the plague, and why so many null systems are "empty." Right now you have 2 choices, join the blob or stay in high/low.


Sov is the teamwork part of the game.

You lot have still failed to explain why you actually deserve the stuff you keep telling us teh soloh playerz are entitled to. And, "because I want it" isn't really a good answer, just to let you know ahead of time.


Because I want it! Blink

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#432 - 2014-02-15 20:07:33 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
But you're perfectly fine with mechanics to let you defend your assets even though you're staged on the other side of the galaxy. Talking of feeling entitled. Last I checked it's pretty impossible to destroy something with "impunity" when the defenders live in the system or nearby systems.


Do you have a better idea than the current system? And by that I mean something that you've carefully thought out and considered all the downsides that the little guy will have to deal with.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#433 - 2014-02-15 20:49:42 UTC
If we remove timers it will mean you will have to have a fleet on guard duty 24/7 and a large one at that. We can burn through any structure in a matter of minutes so IZ's idea would make it impossible for smaller alliances to hold anything in null. Hell it would be impossible for most of the big alliances to keep hold of anything.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#434 - 2014-02-15 21:05:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
If we remove timers it will mean you will have to have a fleet on guard duty 24/7 and a large one at that. We can burn through any structure in a matter of minutes so IZ's idea would make it impossible for smaller alliances to hold anything in null. Hell it would be impossible for most of the big alliances to keep hold of anything.

I said timers are a big problem. I didn't say simply removing them was a solution. The solution would have to be a balanced redesign of the whole system not just ripping out timers.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#435 - 2014-02-15 21:13:21 UTC
Emma Muutaras wrote:
with the current state of null sec http://i.imgur.com/yRX4f1D.png (based on blue standings) what chance does a small alliance/corp that wants to be independent of the big boys have in getting a foothold in null?

it looks like you have 3 choices at the moment join cfc/rus join N3 or buy a wizards hat and join provi block.

while i admit my knowledge of everything going on in null is somewhat limited every 1 seams to say the same thing N3 while still got a lot of fight in them is on the back-foot and in full retreat that blue doughnut is getting closer and closer to being complete.

small scale pvp is getting harder and harder to find always seams to be a 30 man fleet getting dropped by a 100 man fleet, and if/when the blue doughnut is complete you may as well say large scale pvp will die as well.

yes its in the nature of sandboxes for people to group together and form massive coalitions but is this really healthy for null sec?




You have forgotten NPC 0.0, which offers excellent opportunities, but with regard to sov 0.0 you're bang on the money.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#436 - 2014-02-15 21:22:03 UTC
Nerf the ease of travel.

And more importantly, let's just cut to the chase: Nerf Size

Almost every organizational aspect in Eve has limits. Squad size, no. of wings, number of members in a corp, etc etc

USE the MECHANICS we already have TO FIX THE BLOB

Just off the top of my head:

-Significant cap on number of standings you can issue for an organization
-Cut down the number of players that can be in a corp
-Cut down the number of corps that can be in an Alliance
-tweak fleet size restrictions

No one can stop 10 or 200 or 4000 people wanting to work together. NOR SHOULD THEY

No one ever said it should be just as easy to hold space as a 50 person entity as a 5000 person entity.

I would challenge anyone that would suggest it's to the long-term betterment of the game to facilitate increase in organizational size to the infinite.

Make alliances the upper level of organization, but to facilitate a coalition of entities and nothing more
some more top of the head

-only corporations can own anything. towers, stations... anything

what does all this do? Do I hate size? Do I not understand Eve?

to the contrary. I love conflict.

And when the umbrellas become smaller.... that's just where the fun begins.

I think it should be as important to facilitate competition and conflict in eve as it has been to facilitate organization.

In fact... if one were to look at the history of Eve, they might notice that perhaps we've been too supportive of massive blobs and rather negligent of conflict-driving mechanics.

Give people both the opportunity and the motivation to turn on their "friend" or "allies" and you'll find your way to fit the little guy into the big guy's game.
Make everyone a little guy and make being a big guy (past a certain point) an inevitable harbinger of massive conflict cascade.

This would require a new look at ownership, rights, roles.. etc. But think of the possibilities.

Or we can just keep on with the "everyone is blued to another" idiocy ,

pretending we have this awesome espionage and sabotage aspect when all the farther that goes is getting an alt on TS or drunkenly getting someone to give you rights so you can click a button. Roll

Show me corporations vying for control of an alliance IN SPACE.
Show me corporations turning on an alliance member for their assets and control sphere (you might find an instance, but very rare)

I'm sure many would hate this idea.

But then again if gang organization didn't go any further than one squad unlimited in size, and someone came along and suggested it might be otherwise... that would also be met with disdain by those with less imagination (or more selfish motivations) Blink

Take it from a girl. Size matters.
And too large is even more of a problem than too small. Shocked

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#437 - 2014-02-15 21:25:36 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Emma Muutaras wrote:
with the current state of null sec http://i.imgur.com/yRX4f1D.png (based on blue standings) what chance does a small alliance/corp that wants to be independent of the big boys have in getting a foothold in null?

it looks like you have 3 choices at the moment join cfc/rus join N3 or buy a wizards hat and join provi block.

while i admit my knowledge of everything going on in null is somewhat limited every 1 seams to say the same thing N3 while still got a lot of fight in them is on the back-foot and in full retreat that blue doughnut is getting closer and closer to being complete.

small scale pvp is getting harder and harder to find always seams to be a 30 man fleet getting dropped by a 100 man fleet, and if/when the blue doughnut is complete you may as well say large scale pvp will die as well.

yes its in the nature of sandboxes for people to group together and form massive coalitions but is this really healthy for null sec?




You have forgotten NPC 0.0, which offers excellent opportunities, but with regard to sov 0.0 you're bang on the money.

NPC null seems to be packed full of surrounding alliance peeps too. Venal is packed with CFC, so is Outer Ring, last time I went there FCon was busy cleaning out small corp POS and POCOs, Likewise the SOE area next to FADE...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#438 - 2014-02-15 21:28:33 UTC
@Nineteen Seventy-Nine:

What you're asking for is basically wormhole space.

Artificial limits on capacity included. With a considerably more inventive method than "don't let them blue more than X".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#439 - 2014-02-15 21:30:57 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
@Nineteen Seventy-Nine:

What you're asking for is basically wormhole space.

Artificial limits on capacity included. With a considerably more inventive method than "don't let them blue more than X".


I may be wrong but I also recall mention of 3rd party applications that can be used to "blue" pilots externally if the number of blues is limited internally.

A fair idea on paper but...

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#440 - 2014-02-15 21:37:19 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Emma Muutaras wrote:
with the current state of null sec http://i.imgur.com/yRX4f1D.png (based on blue standings) what chance does a small alliance/corp that wants to be independent of the big boys have in getting a foothold in null?

it looks like you have 3 choices at the moment join cfc/rus join N3 or buy a wizards hat and join provi block.

while i admit my knowledge of everything going on in null is somewhat limited every 1 seams to say the same thing N3 while still got a lot of fight in them is on the back-foot and in full retreat that blue doughnut is getting closer and closer to being complete.

small scale pvp is getting harder and harder to find always seams to be a 30 man fleet getting dropped by a 100 man fleet, and if/when the blue doughnut is complete you may as well say large scale pvp will die as well.

yes its in the nature of sandboxes for people to group together and form massive coalitions but is this really healthy for null sec?




You have forgotten NPC 0.0, which offers excellent opportunities, but with regard to sov 0.0 you're bang on the money.

NPC null seems to be packed full of surrounding alliance peeps too. Venal is packed with CFC, so is Outer Ring, last time I went there FCon was busy cleaning out small corp POS and POCOs, Likewise the SOE area next to FADE...


Check out some of the NPC regions in the south. Stain and Curse, Great Wildlands, and for all I know, Syndicate.

Fountain is pretty bloccy though.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016