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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1161 - 2013-12-22 20:57:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Also CCP's figures have shown that inflation on most items has been directly tied to the mineral market and the changes they have made to mineral availability & requirements for BPO's, not the overall isk on the market. Only a few items break that mould which doesn't make for overall market inflation as a result.


The runaway inflation only stopped when CCP nerfed incursions hard.


The 'runaway inflation' only existed in your mind. Possibly it was having impact on the plex market also. But not on general day to day items most pilots need.
Same as the null income being lower is only in your mind.


The price of everything doubled in the span of six months after incursions were added. CCP even stated that they were going to nerf level 4s if the high inflation didn't stop after the incursion nerf and anoms saw two nerfs.


lol. there is no inflation in eve, or very little.

http://thethirdn.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/econ-chat-inflation-in-eve/

see: that detailed analysis. if anything, prices of goods have dropped.

The image is from the devblog, from one of CCP's inhouse economists.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63999/1/Indices_2012-10.png

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74033

But clearly you know more about economics than the PhD economist working for CCP, right? They should fire him and hire you instead.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#1162 - 2013-12-22 21:23:49 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
[quote=baltec1]


Sure, SoE is good income, I never denied that, I'm even prepared to accept that a single person out there managed 160 mil/hr on SoE missions using the current temporary (Read the dictionary for the meaning of that word) inflation of value on SoE LP that won't last forever. It's already down to only around 2,900/lp for the Stratios. Depending exactly how cheap you get your minerals. And still dropping slowly.


I don't know why you have a problem with the truth. It's been explained to you to SOE income is not a temporary thing. There are multiple ways in which you can find this out, in game look at sister's items that aren't the new ships, look at their buy/sell histories. I didn't imagine the last 4 years living in 1st Gicodel and now Osmon (or lately Lanngisi).

If you people could look past your absolute hatred of and prejudice against null sec, you'd be able to understand why things are the way they are, and why high sec combat pve income oppurtunities are unbalanced. WHY do you think so many people (like me, a full time PVE player) have high sec (and faction warfare) isk making alts?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1163 - 2013-12-22 22:04:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
[quote=baltec1]


Sure, SoE is good income, I never denied that, I'm even prepared to accept that a single person out there managed 160 mil/hr on SoE missions using the current temporary (Read the dictionary for the meaning of that word) inflation of value on SoE LP that won't last forever. It's already down to only around 2,900/lp for the Stratios. Depending exactly how cheap you get your minerals. And still dropping slowly.


I don't know why you have a problem with the truth. It's been explained to you to SOE income is not a temporary thing. There are multiple ways in which you can find this out, in game look at sister's items that aren't the new ships, look at their buy/sell histories. I didn't imagine the last 4 years living in 1st Gicodel and now Osmon (or lately Lanngisi).

If you people could look past your absolute hatred of and prejudice against null sec, you'd be able to understand why things are the way they are, and why high sec combat pve income oppurtunities are unbalanced. WHY do you think so many people (like me, a full time PVE player) have high sec (and faction warfare) isk making alts?


The truth is inconvenient sometimes

Luckily, non-truths are readily accepted in general discussion, home to the stop ganking and buff highsec

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1164 - 2013-12-23 01:13:21 UTC
Lived in drone space for 5 months, which is by far the worst space for ratting, anoms only and the occasional 10/10 escalation to run and NO drops... Urgh, and I was still ticking up 60-100m an hour, or if running a DED around 200m an hour.

In that time I earned enough to totally fund 6 moon POS and then started pulling another 2.3bn profit from that a month. (Nothing more valuable than a R16 mind)

So two hours of ratting a day + the towers was netting me 6-7 billion a month... Come back to highsec and I'm damn certain I ain't hitting that figure anymore.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#1165 - 2013-12-23 03:27:13 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Also CCP's figures have shown that inflation on most items has been directly tied to the mineral market and the changes they have made to mineral availability & requirements for BPO's, not the overall isk on the market. Only a few items break that mould which doesn't make for overall market inflation as a result.


The runaway inflation only stopped when CCP nerfed incursions hard.


The 'runaway inflation' only existed in your mind. Possibly it was having impact on the plex market also. But not on general day to day items most pilots need.
Same as the null income being lower is only in your mind.


The price of everything doubled in the span of six months after incursions were added. CCP even stated that they were going to nerf level 4s if the high inflation didn't stop after the incursion nerf and anoms saw two nerfs.


lol. there is no inflation in eve, or very little.

http://thethirdn.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/econ-chat-inflation-in-eve/

see: that detailed analysis. if anything, prices of goods have dropped.

The image is from the devblog, from one of CCP's inhouse economists.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63999/1/Indices_2012-10.png

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74033

But clearly you know more about economics than the PhD economist working for CCP, right? They should fire him and hire you instead.


The comments Baltec1 refers to are literally in the patch notes and related dev blogs from when the change was put in. All these are available to view.

It's kinda silly to just sit there and yell black is blue.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1166 - 2013-12-23 06:03:02 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


The runaway inflation only stopped when CCP nerfed incursions hard.


The 'runaway inflation' only existed in your mind. Possibly it was having impact on the plex market also. But not on general day to day items most pilots need.
Same as the null income being lower is only in your mind.


The price of everything doubled in the span of six months after incursions were added. CCP even stated that they were going to nerf level 4s if the high inflation didn't stop after the incursion nerf and anoms saw two nerfs.


lol. there is no inflation in eve, or very little.

http://thethirdn.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/econ-chat-inflation-in-eve/

see: that detailed analysis. if anything, prices of goods have dropped.

The image is from the devblog, from one of CCP's inhouse economists.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/63999/1/Indices_2012-10.png

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74033

But clearly you know more about economics than the PhD economist working for CCP, right? They should fire him and hire you instead.


The comments Baltec1 refers to are literally in the patch notes and related dev blogs from when the change was put in. All these are available to view.

It's kinda silly to just sit there and yell black is blue.

Next we need a citation from en24

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1167 - 2013-12-23 13:47:25 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
The comments Baltec1 refers to are literally in the patch notes and related dev blogs from when the change was put in. All these are available to view.


I'm going to need a {citation needed} on the dev blog that says rampant inflation was added to the game.


Khanh'rhh wrote:
It's kinda silly to just sit there and yell black is blue.


I agree, which is why I was correcting baltec. Big smile
Adamski flipflop
Trigger Warning.
#1168 - 2013-12-23 14:02:56 UTC
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
Lived in drone space for 5 months, which is by far the worst space for ratting, anoms only and the occasional 10/10 escalation to run and NO drops... Urgh, and I was still ticking up 60-100m an hour, or if running a DED around 200m an hour.

In that time I earned enough to totally fund 6 moon POS and then started pulling another 2.3bn profit from that a month. (Nothing more valuable than a R16 mind)

So two hours of ratting a day + the towers was netting me 6-7 billion a month... Come back to highsec and I'm damn certain I ain't hitting that figure anymore.


yes, so everyone who lives in null can just take their own R16 or better moon (or 6 like you) and have isk on tap.

quite simply remove zydrine and mexallon from highsec.

put mexallon in lowsec

put mexallon and zydrine in null.

eve resurgent
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1169 - 2013-12-23 14:05:03 UTC
Adamski flipflop wrote:
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
Lived in drone space for 5 months, which is by far the worst space for ratting, anoms only and the occasional 10/10 escalation to run and NO drops... Urgh, and I was still ticking up 60-100m an hour, or if running a DED around 200m an hour.

In that time I earned enough to totally fund 6 moon POS and then started pulling another 2.3bn profit from that a month. (Nothing more valuable than a R16 mind)

So two hours of ratting a day + the towers was netting me 6-7 billion a month... Come back to highsec and I'm damn certain I ain't hitting that figure anymore.


yes, so everyone who lives in null can just take their own R16 or better moon (or 6 like you) and have isk on tap.


you can actually have as many as you want nearly on tap.

siphon units. great passive income.
gfldex
#1170 - 2013-12-23 14:13:56 UTC
I will just leave this here.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#1171 - 2013-12-23 14:35:31 UTC
well, i've been blitzing these SoE missions for a few days now and the income is average at best, maybe 40-50M an hour. still decent for high sec but i just can't stomach running them constantly because they're phenomenally dull.

on the other hand, i can just log in, demand mission, run mission, profit. die in a fire with the proceeds. suit me.

forums.  serious business.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1172 - 2013-12-23 14:37:48 UTC
Adamski flipflop wrote:
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:
Lived in drone space for 5 months, which is by far the worst space for ratting, anoms only and the occasional 10/10 escalation to run and NO drops... Urgh, and I was still ticking up 60-100m an hour, or if running a DED around 200m an hour.

In that time I earned enough to totally fund 6 moon POS and then started pulling another 2.3bn profit from that a month. (Nothing more valuable than a R16 mind)

So two hours of ratting a day + the towers was netting me 6-7 billion a month... Come back to highsec and I'm damn certain I ain't hitting that figure anymore.


yes, so everyone who lives in null can just take their own R16 or better moon (or 6 like you) and have isk on tap.

quite simply remove zydrine and mexallon from highsec.

put mexallon in lowsec

put mexallon and zydrine in null.

eve resurgent

Man, 6 moons per person... like IZ that can win the loot drop lottery and have a whole constellation to farm

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#1173 - 2013-12-23 14:39:48 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
well, i've been blitzing these SoE missions for a few days now and the income is average at best, maybe 40-50M an hour. still decent for high sec but i just can't stomach running them constantly because they're phenomenally dull.

on the other hand, i can just log in, demand mission, run mission, profit. die in a fire with the proceeds. suit me.


You're doing something wrong. Very wrong.

What ship are you using? What LP store items to you buy?
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#1174 - 2013-12-23 14:46:41 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
well, i've been blitzing these SoE missions for a few days now and the income is average at best, maybe 40-50M an hour. still decent for high sec but i just can't stomach running them constantly because they're phenomenally dull.

on the other hand, i can just log in, demand mission, run mission, profit. die in a fire with the proceeds. suit me.


You're doing something wrong. Very wrong.

What ship are you using? What LP store items to you buy?


standard MJD sniper domi, purchase astero BPC and build.

forums.  serious business.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#1175 - 2013-12-23 14:57:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
well, i've been blitzing these SoE missions for a few days now and the income is average at best, maybe 40-50M an hour. still decent for high sec but i just can't stomach running them constantly because they're phenomenally dull.

on the other hand, i can just log in, demand mission, run mission, profit. die in a fire with the proceeds. suit me.


You're doing something wrong. Very wrong.

What ship are you using? What LP store items to you buy?


standard MJD sniper domi, purchase astero BPC and build.


Sniper domi is ok, but to me it's kind of gimmicky..

Unless you use guns you'll never get more than 820 dps, and the alpha nature of sentry guns means you end up wasting a lot of damage on small ships to over-kill. Not saying it's not good (it is) but I've found that Ravens, Typhoons and even dual prop MJD/MWD artillery Maelstroms (I split guns into 4 groups of two, lessens overkill on small stuff) are much much faster.

I use a Machariel (800mm auto-cannon fit, but with mwd and mjd, the mjd is just my "get out fo jail free..or and look at that group of guristas 100km away, i'll just jump there" card) and sell virtue implants or scan probes/launchers. There are plenty of buy orders for all of these items in Osmon (since it's so close to jita) so no transport time what-so-ever, just dock, buy from lp store, sell to buy order.

Not the best isk/lp but super convenient. Sister's missioning in one of the other high sec systems like Lanngisi is slightly more complicated till you realize there are SOE stations in RENS 8 jumps away, so still no hauling required.

Still, if you're only making 40-50 mil an hour even with a domi, something is very wrong. I don't loot/salvage at all and i make more than that.
Decian Cor
Stronghelm Corporation
Solyaris Chtonium
#1176 - 2013-12-23 14:59:54 UTC
Why is this thread still here, and why are people still whining?

[u]Unfiltered for the masses.[/u]

http://imgur.com/mzSl1Ie
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#1177 - 2013-12-23 15:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Pinky Hops wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
The comments Baltec1 refers to are literally in the patch notes and related dev blogs from when the change was put in. All these are available to view.


I'm going to need a {citation needed} on the dev blog that says rampant inflation was added to the game.


Khanh'rhh wrote:
It's kinda silly to just sit there and yell black is blue.


I agree, which is why I was correcting baltec. Big smile

"I'm wrong, and I know it. However, since I learned how to debate a point in grade school, I still feel it appropriate to simply say the opposite is true, and make the other person forcibly demonstrate my ignorance to the group. At which point, I will turn and make up a different POV which doesn't rely on the disproven statement. This is completely non-constructive but allows me to remain wilfully ignorant and feel better about myself"

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#1178 - 2013-12-23 15:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Jenn aSide wrote:
Unless you use guns you'll never get more than 820 dps, and the alpha nature of sentry guns means you end up wasting a lot of damage on small ships to over-kill. Not saying it's not good (it is) but I've found that Ravens, Typhoons and even dual prop MJD/MWD artillery Maelstroms (I split guns into 4 groups of two, lessens overkill on small stuff) are much much faster.

I use a Machariel (800mm auto-cannon fit, but with mwd and mjd, the mjd is just my "get out fo jail free..or and look at that group of guristas 100km away, i'll just jump there" card) and sell virtue implants or scan probes/launchers. There are plenty of buy orders for all of these items in Osmon (since it's so close to jita) so no transport time what-so-ever, just dock, buy from lp store, sell to buy order.

Not the best isk/lp but super convenient. Sister's missioning in one of the other high sec systems like Lanngisi is slightly more complicated till you realize there are SOE stations in RENS 8 jumps away, so still no hauling required.

Still, if you're only making 40-50 mil an hour even with a domi, something is very wrong. I don't loot/salvage at all and i make more than that.


well, you are using a pirate faction ship and possibly have higher skills. i don't even have drone interfacing, gallente battleship and security connections at V yet. you're probably right about the turrets but i've got drone skills so it's best if i go the drone boat route. I desperately need to train PvP related skills higher and so i'm just finsihing up the domi and that'll be me.

it is a very rough conservative estimate of what i make per tick on bounties, and slightly under 3000 ISK/LP for the BPC. I am possibly underestimating because the tendency seem to be to overestimate (plus nobody ever seems to factor in IRL interruptions). i mission out of apanake so the astero is a good choice as the market at dodixie is currently quite liquid and low LP items are a must as i need to be liquid.

anyway, as a casual player i'm pretty happy with what i'm making.

forums.  serious business.
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1179 - 2013-12-23 16:41:52 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Unless you use guns you'll never get more than 820 dps, and the alpha nature of sentry guns means you end up wasting a lot of damage on small ships to over-kill. Not saying it's not good (it is) but I've found that Ravens, Typhoons and even dual prop MJD/MWD artillery Maelstroms (I split guns into 4 groups of two, lessens overkill on small stuff) are much much faster.

I use a Machariel (800mm auto-cannon fit, but with mwd and mjd, the mjd is just my "get out fo jail free..or and look at that group of guristas 100km away, i'll just jump there" card) and sell virtue implants or scan probes/launchers. There are plenty of buy orders for all of these items in Osmon (since it's so close to jita) so no transport time what-so-ever, just dock, buy from lp store, sell to buy order.

Not the best isk/lp but super convenient. Sister's missioning in one of the other high sec systems like Lanngisi is slightly more complicated till you realize there are SOE stations in RENS 8 jumps away, so still no hauling required.

Still, if you're only making 40-50 mil an hour even with a domi, something is very wrong. I don't loot/salvage at all and i make more than that.


well, you are using a pirate faction ship and possibly have higher skills. i don't even have drone interfacing, gallente battleship and security connections at V yet. you're probably right about the turrets but i've got drone skills so it's best if i go the drone boat route. I desperately need to train PvP related skills higher and so i'm just finsihing up the domi and that'll be me.

it is a very rough conservative estimate of what i make per tick on bounties, and slightly under 3000 ISK/LP for the BPC. I am possibly underestimating because the tendency seem to be to overestimate (plus nobody ever seems to factor in IRL interruptions). i mission out of apanake so the astero is a good choice as the market at dodixie is currently quite liquid and low LP items are a must as i need to be liquid.

anyway, as a casual player i'm pretty happy with what i'm making.


You just need to blitz, not clear. Also, Vargur FTW.

Bacon makes us stronger
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#1180 - 2013-12-23 16:46:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
well, i've been blitzing these SoE missions for a few days now and the income is average at best, maybe 40-50M an hour. still decent for high sec but i just can't stomach running them constantly because they're phenomenally dull.

on the other hand, i can just log in, demand mission, run mission, profit. die in a fire with the proceeds. suit me.


You're doing something wrong. Very wrong.

What ship are you using? What LP store items to you buy?


standard MJD sniper domi, purchase astero BPC and build.


Sniper domi is ok, but to me it's kind of gimmicky..

Unless you use guns you'll never get more than 820 dps, and the alpha nature of sentry guns means you end up wasting a lot of damage on small ships to over-kill. Not saying it's not good (it is) but I've found that Ravens, Typhoons and even dual prop MJD/MWD artillery Maelstroms (I split guns into 4 groups of two, lessens overkill on small stuff) are much much faster.

I use a Machariel (800mm auto-cannon fit, but with mwd and mjd, the mjd is just my "get out fo jail free..or and look at that group of guristas 100km away, i'll just jump there" card) and sell virtue implants or scan probes/launchers. There are plenty of buy orders for all of these items in Osmon (since it's so close to jita) so no transport time what-so-ever, just dock, buy from lp store, sell to buy order.

Not the best isk/lp but super convenient. Sister's missioning in one of the other high sec systems like Lanngisi is slightly more complicated till you realize there are SOE stations in RENS 8 jumps away, so still no hauling required.

Still, if you're only making 40-50 mil an hour even with a domi, something is very wrong. I don't loot/salvage at all and i make more than that.

Just because he is doing it different from you doesnt mean its wrong.