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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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Author
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1201 - 2013-12-24 01:28:07 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:


well i'll probably make more of an effort on that if i'm gonna run them a lot but you still have to monetise the LP ( which isn't very difficult but people always overestimate mission income because they don;'t take that into account). i have to stop running, make a few jumps, get the BPC, warp to my station, set up production, haul minerals or mine them, haul finished product to a trade hub, fill buy orders instantly (preference) or make a sell order and manage it (annoying ). so it's not ISK in the pocket like bounties even if it is pretty easy to convert.


Osmon and Jita are in the same region, which means order management can be done in warp whilst missioning, and the carting time is ridiculously short. ie the overheads in cashing sisters LP is trivial - as little as 20 minutes in 50 hours (less than 1%), and due to there being nearby low level sisters stations, there is no reason for losing a ship being used to cart cashed out items on the osmon undock.

In my case I'd stick my proteus in one of the low level stations configured for highsec carting (covops + max ehp), and since blitzers income is not bounty sensitive, they don't need to be in a player corp, thus need never undock into wartargets (and a proteus should always survive that anyway).

ie me having to move billions of isk of goods 20+ jumps through null to jita is objectively harder, less safe and takes longer than cashing sisters LP, and requires a market alt, which sisters LP does not.



Yeah or you could load up a carriers cargo hold and jump to a low sec system and move the loot from a hauler you have docked.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1202 - 2013-12-24 01:33:18 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:



Yeah or you could load up a carriers cargo hold and jump to a low sec system and move the loot from a hauler you have docked.


Something that you cannot do solo, costs a fair amount of isk, still requires you to ship your goods a longer distance, cannot be mostly done while still ratting and takes a lot more time.
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1203 - 2013-12-24 01:42:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:



Yeah or you could load up a carriers cargo hold and jump to a low sec system and move the loot from a hauler you have docked.


Something that you cannot do solo, costs a fair amount of isk, still requires you to ship your goods a longer distance, cannot be mostly done while still ratting and takes a lot more time.


Its not that challenging, you could probably use a covert ops cloaking ship with covert jump drive to move **** around too.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1204 - 2013-12-24 01:45:48 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Knights Armament wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:



Yeah or you could load up a carriers cargo hold and jump to a low sec system and move the loot from a hauler you have docked.


Something that you cannot do solo, costs a fair amount of isk, still requires you to ship your goods a longer distance, cannot be mostly done while still ratting and takes a lot more time.


Its not that challenging, you could probably use a covert ops cloaking ship with covert jump drive to move **** around too.


Still needs moving and all of those things happen every time.

Someone running missions in high sec, especially in the Forge will have a far easier and quicker time.
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1205 - 2013-12-24 01:52:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:



Yeah or you could load up a carriers cargo hold and jump to a low sec system and move the loot from a hauler you have docked.


Something that you cannot do solo, costs a fair amount of isk, still requires you to ship your goods a longer distance, cannot be mostly done while still ratting and takes a lot more time.


Its not that challenging, you could probably use a covert ops cloaking ship with covert jump drive to move **** around too.


Still needs moving and all of those things happen every time.

Someone running missions in high sec, especially in the Forge will have a far easier and quicker time.


Yeah well if I want to sell my high sec loot in null sec for increased profit I have to do the same thing
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#1206 - 2013-12-24 02:07:48 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:


Yeah well if I want to sell my high sec loot in null sec for increased profit I have to do the same thing


if I stick an x-type booster on Vales market at Jita prices, it will be there for 90 days unless Jita prices rise considerably. Reason : supply.

ie local market is useless for selling locally farmed goods in null.

Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1207 - 2013-12-24 02:10:16 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:


Yeah well if I want to sell my high sec loot in null sec for increased profit I have to do the same thing


if I stick an x-type booster on Vales market at Jita prices, it will be there for 90 days unless Jita prices rise considerably. Reason : supply.

ie local market is useless for selling locally farmed goods in null.



I bring stuff to low sec systems, and pirate null and charge a significant markup for a nice profit. Innia is a good place to sell cloaking devices.
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1208 - 2013-12-24 02:16:04 UTC
Any amount of isk earning in complete safety is bad for the game high sec space is the trammel of eve online, however getting fitted for pve in eve online costs significantly more than it did in uo, I could pve with gm crafted stuff, and a silver katana, so the risk of losing gold was not nearly as much.

In eve you need to risk a lot to pve effectively in low security, the problem isn't that high security provides a better income and less incentive to go to null, the problem is that ccp has increased the cost of pve in null in order to earn more money through plex sales.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#1209 - 2013-12-24 02:19:40 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:


Yeah well if I want to sell my high sec loot in null sec for increased profit I have to do the same thing


if I stick an x-type booster on Vales market at Jita prices, it will be there for 90 days unless Jita prices rise considerably. Reason : supply.

ie local market is useless for selling locally farmed goods in null.



I bring stuff to low sec systems, and pirate null and charge a significant markup for a nice profit. Innia is a good place to sell cloaking devices.


I have looted 0.000000000000 cloaking devices from gurista nullsec rats, and even if I did, turn over of cloaking devices here is small, and pirate infested lowsec is not where I'd naturally seek to market highsec missionbear items like x-types.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1210 - 2013-12-24 02:22:38 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Knights Armament wrote:
Any amount of isk earning in complete safety is bad for the game high sec space is the trammel of eve online, however getting fitted for pve in eve online costs significantly more than it did in uo, I could pve with gm crafted stuff, and a silver katana, so the risk of losing gold was not nearly as much.

In eve you need to risk a lot to pve effectively in low security, the problem isn't that high security provides a better income and less incentive to go to null, the problem is that ccp has increased the cost of pve in null in order to earn more money through plex sales.


No the problem is that CCP has nerfed null income repeatedly over the years while it has buffed high sec income while also making high sec safer and null more dangerous. We are now at the point where high sec provides better income and as close to perfect safety as you can get in EVE.

CCP needs to do the same to missions as they have done to PI, exploration and ice mining.
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1211 - 2013-12-24 02:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Knights Armament
baltec1 wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:
Any amount of isk earning in complete safety is bad for the game high sec space is the trammel of eve online, however getting fitted for pve in eve online costs significantly more than it did in uo, I could pve with gm crafted stuff, and a silver katana, so the risk of losing gold was not nearly as much.

In eve you need to risk a lot to pve effectively in low security, the problem isn't that high security provides a better income and less incentive to go to null, the problem is that ccp has increased the cost of pve in null in order to earn more money through plex sales.


No the problem is that CCP has nerfed null income repeatedly over the years while it has buffed high sec income while also making high sec safer and null more dangerous. We are now at the point where high sec provides better income and as close to perfect safety as you can get in EVE.

CCP needs to do the same to missions as they have done to PI, exploration and ice mining.


I agree null income should be better than null sec, but its largely risk free thanks to gate camps. In certain systems, covert proteus and interceptors aside.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#1212 - 2013-12-24 02:26:09 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:



Yeah or you could load up a carriers cargo hold and jump to a low sec system and move the loot from a hauler you have docked.


Something that you cannot do solo, costs a fair amount of isk, still requires you to ship your goods a longer distance, cannot be mostly done while still ratting and takes a lot more time.


Its not that challenging, you could probably use a covert ops cloaking ship with covert jump drive to move **** around too.


You've completely lost the thread of the debate. the point is someone was trying to explain to me that sisters LP costs time to cash in. I pointed out that its so small that its immaterial, and you've yet to describe any reason why I would change my mind on such, and you've also yet to describe why nullsec loot would have similar amount of time associated with getting it to market. it doesn't.

We are all perfectly happy to concede that its possible to get x-types to market safely, as I plainly do get x-types to market, but it is plainly more effort than sisters LP, and costs me more isk/hr than does marketing sisters LP.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1213 - 2013-12-24 02:29:58 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:


I agree null income should be better than null sec, but its largely risk free thanks to gate camps. In certain systems, covert proteus and interceptors aside.


The only gate camps are in the handful of null/high boarder systems. For the last 2 years roaming gangs have been everywhere and these days frigate gangs and blops fleets are all over the place.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1214 - 2013-12-24 02:39:40 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
I have looted 0.000000000000 cloaking devices from gurista nullsec rats, and even if I did, turn over of cloaking devices here is small, and pirate infested lowsec is not where I'd naturally seek to market highsec missionbear items like x-types.


I've looted a few Dread Guristas Cloaking Devices. They're really not worth much.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1215 - 2013-12-24 02:57:41 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:



Yeah or you could load up a carriers cargo hold and jump to a low sec system and move the loot from a hauler you have docked.


Something that you cannot do solo, costs a fair amount of isk, still requires you to ship your goods a longer distance, cannot be mostly done while still ratting and takes a lot more time.


Its not that challenging, you could probably use a covert ops cloaking ship with covert jump drive to move **** around too.


You've completely lost the thread of the debate. the point is someone was trying to explain to me that sisters LP costs time to cash in. I pointed out that its so small that its immaterial, and you've yet to describe any reason why I would change my mind on such, and you've also yet to describe why nullsec loot would have similar amount of time associated with getting it to market. it doesn't.

We are all perfectly happy to concede that its possible to get x-types to market safely, as I plainly do get x-types to market, but it is plainly more effort than sisters LP, and costs me more isk/hr than does marketing sisters LP.



sisters lp is popular now because its new ships and content, once null sec gets something new that will be more valuable
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1216 - 2013-12-24 04:28:43 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:



Yeah or you could load up a carriers cargo hold and jump to a low sec system and move the loot from a hauler you have docked.


Something that you cannot do solo, costs a fair amount of isk, still requires you to ship your goods a longer distance, cannot be mostly done while still ratting and takes a lot more time.


Its not that challenging, you could probably use a covert ops cloaking ship with covert jump drive to move **** around too.


You've completely lost the thread of the debate. the point is someone was trying to explain to me that sisters LP costs time to cash in. I pointed out that its so small that its immaterial, and you've yet to describe any reason why I would change my mind on such, and you've also yet to describe why nullsec loot would have similar amount of time associated with getting it to market. it doesn't.

We are all perfectly happy to concede that its possible to get x-types to market safely, as I plainly do get x-types to market, but it is plainly more effort than sisters LP, and costs me more isk/hr than does marketing sisters LP.



sisters lp is popular now because its new ships and content, once null sec gets something new that will be more valuable


Like i said before,I don't know what some of you have to cling to something that is obviously untrue. The new ships and their BPCs just added to things, it don't create anything new. You can look at the price indicies for sister's items in game to see this if you want.

You and other clinging for dear life to the idea that it's some kind of bubble caused byt the ships is frustrating because it means you aren't interested in the truth.

The Thukker Tribe didn't get any ships like SOE did, please explain this honestly if that's possible.
Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1217 - 2013-12-24 04:39:01 UTC
I see numbers listed, but what I don't see is the volume of items selling, something may be worth those prices, but it doesn't mean you'll sell it right away. It is all speculation, prices change hourly in eve.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#1218 - 2013-12-24 04:55:38 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
I see numbers listed, but what I don't see is the volume of items selling, something may be worth those prices, but it doesn't mean you'll sell it right away. It is all speculation, prices change hourly in eve.


http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=28796#history

set it 180 days history, press view and you'll get a feel for how many LG nomads you can dump on jita.
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1219 - 2013-12-24 05:38:14 UTC
Knights Armament wrote:
I see numbers listed, but what I don't see is the volume of items selling, something may be worth those prices, but it doesn't mean you'll sell it right away. It is all speculation, prices change hourly in eve.

Stop loudly proclaiming your ignorance in how to check the market in Eve. EvE central, and EvE market, are valuable tools for anybody wanting to check the market fluctuation of any item in EvE. It helps you figure out if someone is manipulating the item artificially, by scanning the history of sell, buy and median prices, along with volume traded. If you plop down 100 of thing Y and it has a daily volume of 3, you are not going to sell everything in the three days you have, before you have to buy a PLEX to keep your account subbed, no matter how low you set the sell price, or dumping to buys. Well maybe me if I can re-list and make more off your fire sale stupidity.Lol

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1220 - 2013-12-24 05:40:28 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Knights Armament wrote:
I see numbers listed, but what I don't see is the volume of items selling, something may be worth those prices, but it doesn't mean you'll sell it right away. It is all speculation, prices change hourly in eve.


http://www.eve-markets.net/detail?typeid=28796#history

set it 180 days history, press view and you'll get a feel for how many LG nomads you can dump on jita.


Thanks, Although I think by now we know you're talking to a brick wall of denial.

Also, Yea Knight, it was all about the ships.......