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Two years later: Walking in Stations

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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#141 - 2013-12-07 17:52:38 UTC
It had nothing to do with incarna, it was about Pay 2 win. Something a lot of the FiS First crowd forget is that the opposition to incarna had nothing to do with people being opposed to WiS, but rather the implications that pay 2 win was the next step.
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#142 - 2013-12-07 17:58:12 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
People didn't leave during Incarna because of Walking in Stations.
Sure they did.
But Incarna didn't have any Walking in Stations. ¯\(°_o)/¯

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Naydra Adni
Doomheim
#143 - 2013-12-07 19:09:56 UTC
as far as wis goes I can take it or leave it. if there's enough time/resources to make it happen that would be cool though.
I'm all for it being put on hold till then as well.

But it's like a Dev said in a presentation a little while back... that having a huge game, like Eve, with such a massive scale and scope only being about and focusing solely on spaceships is like having a smart phone that you only make calls on...
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#144 - 2013-12-07 22:27:00 UTC
Baroness Vulna wrote:


so WiS wasnt such a waste of time after all, so if WiS is such a hot item and CCP realizes they just messed up on the delivery...why wouldn't they just do it right little by little knowing so many people want it? My guess is that the CSM told them not to, they got scared by all the backlash (after incarna but not entirely about WiS) , or they just dont know what to do right with WiS.


This is exactly what happened plus the CSM members were largely in favour of a sov overhaul and pos fixes so like true politicians they hijacked the anger of Gold Ammo for their own end.

They shamefully forgot that they were representing the entire player base even the ones that didn't vote for them and used the backlash to convince CCP that their future vision was worthless when in fact it was worth a lot more to the games future than a DIY pos system, ship rebalancing and the as yet not attempted sov overhaul. These things only benefit existing players, the clear winners being the Null/Low crowd that will fight over the same anthill night and day just because it exists.

This is what you get when nullsec/faction-war power-blocs have the majorityl of the seats on the CSM. The game they care about involves planting flags on someone else's mountain. This is where they derive their pleasure and prestige from so no wonder WIS wasn't important to them. If a sov mechanic had been built into the captain's quarters we'd still have WIS development going on.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#145 - 2013-12-07 22:34:43 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
They shamefully forgot that they were representing the entire player base even the ones that didn't vote for them
If people thought politicians should/could/would represent everyone's views, they wouldn't be put in power by popular vote.

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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#146 - 2013-12-07 22:39:48 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
They shamefully forgot that they were representing the entire player base even the ones that didn't vote for them
If people thought politicians should/could/would represent everyone's views, they wouldn't be put in power by popular vote.


but you forget they were recalled to Iceland for an emergency summit in which they were specifically asked to represent the player base and vent their concerns, not the concerns of their constituents, the concerns of the whole player base.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#147 - 2013-12-07 22:45:00 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
but you forget they were recalled to Iceland for an emergency summit in which they were specifically asked to represent the player base and vent their concerns, not the concerns of their constituents, the concerns of the whole player base.
I stand reminded.

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Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2013-12-07 22:54:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Bob Niac
Look. Alls I want is to be able to have a Command Center. I want a map. With realtime data that me and my blokes can look at. I want to be a general. I want to see what's going on with my scouts... To see what they see. That's all. It's not hard.

Now that we have the DUST mythos, there is no fear of "omgwtf my skillpoints?!" We never leave our pods. Period. Pod is always sealed. We can jump clone to a DUST Clone and that's how we end up in Captain's Quarters.

To be honest, I would love to see a playable alpha for WoD. The thing I see is that CCP wanted a two way street for CQ and World of Darkness. This simply would not work. WoD would be a fork of the EVE code. At that point, it has nothing to do with EVE. But that does not mean code cannot be harvested from WoD. Quite the opposite.


World of Darkness is a way to pay for devs to develop WiS. It is, essentially a way to test and manufacture mechanics for EVE. It should not be "just a contractual obligation" as it stands right now. Use it as a means to an end. And take it slow. If you put good people on it, and wait, you will be surprised.

It's one of those "oh btw" moments. "Oh, by the way, that game we have been making? It's actually EVE with a coat of paint."


Edit:

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100118052433/jamescameronsavatar/images/b/b0/Filmstill084a.jpg

This scene from Avatar. This is what I would love to see. Macro level management of fleets. Bataillons. Five fleets, all being managed in a command and control room using EVE voice for secure comms. Why? Location based chat. If you are not in the room, you do not see or hear what is going on. There was a demo of this when WiS was still ambulation. The demo was not fleshed out, but it was there.

And you know what the best part is? You can go through and streamline who gets what information. CovOps take on a new role as the eyes of the battalion commander. They can stream their video onto the table. Exploration based ships can launch probes to give an on-grid feed to the C&C. Command ships like the Nighthawk get bastion so they can tank on grid, and relay information to the FC. The FC is then relaying all this info to the C&C. If any of these ships pop, its game over. no intel.

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.
GreenSeed
#149 - 2013-12-07 23:14:33 UTC
people thinking the whole "summer of rage" was because of Incarna and WiS should remain quiet when people are discussing things they know nothing about... the real reason entire corps hit the unsub button was the "golden ammo" pseudo leak.

as soon as that hit locals and alliance chats everywhere, no one threatened to unsub, they just did it. and it was that lack of warning and "omg im going to unsub" threads that sent CCP into panic mode, this wasn't a bunch of 13year olds threatening to unsub if they didn't get what they wanted, this was people that already said "**** it, im out", no farewell threads, no stuff giveaways, nothing, just a corp mail saying "sorry guys, im going back to minesweeper and solitaire".

the idea of killing the sandbox and introducing Aur for Standing, Aur for better ammo, and several other things along the same lines was the end of it for a lot of people.

it wasn't Wis, it was the Aur store. mainly the fact that they were breaking the promise of "only cosmetical items".

so no, Wis was just another niche feature that 60% of eve didn't care for, but the other 40% loved. just like when they finnaly get to do the fabled SoV revamp... guess what, most people live on high, whs or low... they don't care for SoV. still, everyone agrees that its necessary and would be nice to have, dynamic Sov means more Pew Pew, more Pew Pew, more life in the sandbox.

this is eve, we are used to having features that target some obscure section of the player base, and we are fine with it because we are not wowtards, we understand that in this game its all connected. and Wis is targeted to a section of the player base that loses ships, holds sov, carebears in high and Rps a pirate in low, they are everywhere, and more of them wouldn't hurt this game in the least bit.
Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2013-12-07 23:26:07 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
people thinking the whole "summer of rage" was because of Incarna and WiS should remain quiet when people are discussing things they know nothing about... the real reason entire corps hit the unsub button was the "golden ammo" pseudo leak.

as soon as that hit locals and alliance chats everywhere, no one threatened to unsub, they just did it. and it was that lack of warning and "omg im going to unsub" threads that sent CCP into panic mode, this wasn't a bunch of 13year olds threatening to unsub if they didn't get what they wanted, this was people that already said "**** it, im out", no farewell threads, no stuff giveaways, nothing, just a corp mail saying "sorry guys, im going back to minesweeper and solitaire".

the idea of killing the sandbox and introducing Aur for Standing, Aur for better ammo, and several other things along the same lines was the end of it for a lot of people.

it wasn't Wis, it was the Aur store. mainly the fact that they were breaking the promise of "only cosmetical items".

so no, Wis was just another niche feature that 60% of eve didn't care for, but the other 40% loved. just like when they finnaly get to do the fabled SoV revamp... guess what, most people live on high, whs or low... they don't care for SoV. still, everyone agrees that its necessary and would be nice to have, dynamic Sov means more Pew Pew, more Pew Pew, more life in the sandbox.

this is eve, we are used to having features that target some obscure section of the player base, and we are fine with it because we are not wowtards, we understand that in this game its all connected. and Wis is targeted to a section of the player base that loses ships, holds sov, carebears in high and Rps a pirate in low, they are everywhere, and more of them wouldn't hurt this game in the least bit.


THIS. You hit the nail on the head.

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#151 - 2013-12-08 00:29:52 UTC
Quote:
11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.


Redacted some stuff according to this rule.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#152 - 2013-12-08 04:58:50 UTC
I happen to be sort of pissed that they aren't developing a proper mobile app for anything

i want to update my skill training when I'm not taped to a desk please

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Hemi DarkStar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#153 - 2013-12-08 09:04:59 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
people thinking the whole "summer of rage" was because of Incarna and WiS should remain quiet when people are discussing things they know nothing about... the real reason entire corps hit the unsub button was the "golden ammo" pseudo leak.

as soon as that hit locals and alliance chats everywhere, no one threatened to unsub, they just did it. and it was that lack of warning and "omg im going to unsub" threads that sent CCP into panic mode, this wasn't a bunch of 13year olds threatening to unsub if they didn't get what they wanted, this was people that already said "**** it, im out", no farewell threads, no stuff giveaways, nothing, just a corp mail saying "sorry guys, im going back to minesweeper and solitaire".

the idea of killing the sandbox and introducing Aur for Standing, Aur for better ammo, and several other things along the same lines was the end of it for a lot of people.

it wasn't Wis, it was the Aur store. mainly the fact that they were breaking the promise of "only cosmetical items".

so no, Wis was just another niche feature that 60% of eve didn't care for, but the other 40% loved. just like when they finnaly get to do the fabled SoV revamp... guess what, most people live on high, whs or low... they don't care for SoV. still, everyone agrees that its necessary and would be nice to have, dynamic Sov means more Pew Pew, more Pew Pew, more life in the sandbox.

this is eve, we are used to having features that target some obscure section of the player base, and we are fine with it because we are not wowtards, we understand that in this game its all connected. and Wis is targeted to a section of the player base that loses ships, holds sov, carebears in high and Rps a pirate in low, they are everywhere, and more of them wouldn't hurt this game in the least bit.


^THIS! Thank you. Big smile
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#154 - 2013-12-08 09:54:40 UTC
Two years later: is there any gameplay yet?

Thought not.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#155 - 2013-12-08 10:16:28 UTC
Zol Interbottom wrote:
I happen to be sort of pissed that they aren't developing a proper mobile app for anything

i want to update my skill training when I'm not taped to a desk please


I can't pinpoint the source but I think this is in development.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#156 - 2013-12-08 10:17:33 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Two years later: is there any gameplay yet?

Thought not.


Obviously no on account of the fact that there's been no further development.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Solhild
Doomheim
#157 - 2013-12-08 10:41:23 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
WASPY69 wrote:
CCP clearly said in a recent statement that EVE is, in fact a game about internet spaceships, and so therein lies the primary development focus.
So don't wait up at night expecting WIS to arrive anytime soon. And on your latter question, not to promote another game, but i believe Star Citizen will have said walking in stations, or at least in your ship hangar.


You can read this as : technically it's too costly to do as our devs are spread really thin making phone apps that no one wants, and working on other games leaving eve in maintenance mode until dust, valkyrie and wod are profitable. When wod is done you might get more avatar stuff but it will be reheated metro (gallante) stuff from wod with a slight graphics pass to make it look more Sci fi.

Yes we're aware that Eve is the only game paying the bills but were run by venture capitalists who are unhappy with our present rate of profit and think that micro transactions and gold ammo is the way to pay the bills after listening to industry experts talk out of their arses about profitability and free to play models, despite the fact that we have ten years and a loyal community of subscribers that prove them all wrong.

Also we know incarna could have been the best ever game development in history but we really skimped on the implementation because we listened to so called experts instead of our players the resulting fallout was really bad press and stinging criticism that follows us around everywhere we go. We are **** scared to go down this route again especially after sacking key people that only did what we told them to do. It was not our finest hour...


Truth here. I joined EVE in 2008 thinking I was playing the long game in a growing Sci-Fi universe. In reality, CCP have utterly messed this up. At least they are fixing the core code of EVE and it seems pretty robust. I also like the way CCP markets itself and the devs involved in the game.

Unfortunately, CCP's stagnation has contributed to me winding down accounts and pushing £hundreds onto other Sci-Fi universe games in Kickstarter.
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#158 - 2013-12-08 11:07:30 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Zol Interbottom wrote:
I happen to be sort of pissed that they aren't developing a proper mobile app for anything

i want to update my skill training when I'm not taped to a desk please


I can't pinpoint the source but I think this is in development.


I said proper because rumor has it that its going to be on the playstation portable 2 or something stupid

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#159 - 2013-12-08 11:26:43 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Quote:


The players did , whith their massive revotls, riots and demands that CCP scrapped the focus on incarna in favor of SPACE. CCP lost a LOT of costumers and only started gettign them back after they complied.

THey leaarned a lesson. Do not expect anything incarna related soon.


Not true actually, they demanded that ccp scrap the focus on micro transactions in that nex store, this anger was hijacked by a minority of fis enthusiasts some of which sat on the csm at the time who managed to convince ccp that everyone hated non fis development when clearly that is not the case. None of the above would have happened had there not been a leaked memo from CCP entitled 'GREED IS GOOD' which outlined ideas of pay to win products for sale in the nex store.


This is the truth, the rest is revisionism (some times caressed by Tippia as well).

Nobody except the usual powerblocs prima donnas and their feet lickers was against WiS.

We (I organized a part of it) revolted because of factors that led to the WiS fiasco but also to a ton of other fiascos at that time: lack of quality, of morality, disgusting greed both shown in our face and in internal documents and even on 3rd party freeware developers.

These and these were the threads circulating at the time. Some will recognize in those threads posters, the players who would brew up the Big Revolt. I.e. Miilla.

All that discontent got awesomely summed up by a true Disgruntled Playerbase Manifesto for that era: Alter bad new company direction, STOP rushing stuff out made by one of the few posters worth undying respect: Akita T.

That was a whole Dark CCP Age, WiS came up so bad because it was half assed like the rest of the garbage (i.e. Dominion and then PI) they made at that time. WiS fiasco is due to CCP overpromising and vastly underdelivering, not because of players opposition.

Sure, some player organizations and their lacchés were well interested into immediately putting blame and shame on WiS (and later, on Incursions, guess why?) but they are just hollow liars talking their interest.

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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#160 - 2013-12-08 11:43:27 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Quote:


The players did , whith their massive revotls, riots and demands that CCP scrapped the focus on incarna in favor of SPACE. CCP lost a LOT of costumers and only started gettign them back after they complied.

THey leaarned a lesson. Do not expect anything incarna related soon.


Not true actually, they demanded that ccp scrap the focus on micro transactions in that nex store, this anger was hijacked by a minority of fis enthusiasts some of which sat on the csm at the time who managed to convince ccp that everyone hated non fis development when clearly that is not the case. None of the above would have happened had there not been a leaked memo from CCP entitled 'GREED IS GOOD' which outlined ideas of pay to win products for sale in the nex store.


This is the truth, the rest is revisionism (some times caressed by Tippia as well).

Nobody except the usual powerblocs prima donnas and their feet lickers was against WiS.

We (I organized a part of it) revolted because of factors that led to the WiS fiasco but also to a ton of other fiascos at that time: lack of quality, of morality, disgusting greed both shown in our face and in internal documents and even on 3rd party freeware developers.

These and these were the threads circulating at the time. Some will recognize in those threads posters, the players who would brew up the Big Revolt. I.e. Miilla.

All that discontent got awesomely summed up by a true Disgruntled Playerbase Manifesto for that era: Alter bad new company direction, STOP rushing stuff out made by one of the few posters worth undying respect: Akita T.

That was a whole Dark CCP Age, WiS came up so bad because it was half assed like the rest of the garbage (i.e. Dominion and then PI) they made at that time. WiS fiasco is due to CCP overpromising and vastly underdelivering, not because of players opposition.

Sure, some player organizations and their lacchés were well interested into immediately putting blame and shame on WiS (and later, on Incursions, guess why?) but they are just hollow liars talking their interest.


It is often overlooked that Incarna happened the next year to 2010's Summer of Rage; it wasn't an isolate incident, but the peak of a massive wave of discontent that had nothing to do with Ambulation/WiS but with CCP's malpractices.

I don't have memories of that as back then I was not active at the forums and actually was on my way to leaving the game, but eventually stayed because of WiS coming in 2011.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you