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Two years later: Walking in Stations

First post
Author
Davon Mandra'thin
Consultech Intermediary Services
#181 - 2013-12-08 16:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Davon Mandra'thin
When it comes to ideas for Walking in Stations CCP have already had the best ones as far as I can see. By the best, I mean the best, easy, viable ideas. Because although I would love to dock in a Titan, and run around disabling it's systems I can't see that happening for a very long time.

The two ideas from CCP that I know of are;
- The Exploration Prototype and
- Corporate Quarters

The exploration prototype is about not being safe. Which is, as far as I am concerned, really important. If any Avatar content is just a safe carebear haven you will get a lot of hate from other players, and rightly so.

The Corporate Quarters weren't talked about publicly, but in a couple of UI design videos they released the UI for it is very evident. I imagine the Corporate Quarters would be much the same as your offices. You buy and rent one in a station, and then a certain number of people can use it at one time. I think the example on the UI video was something like 32. Inside the Corporate Quarters there was a Slay Table (like a RISK style game but with mechs and tanks), also shown in the UI design video. Corps would be able to tax the winnings that were bet on the slay games.

All the above on corporate quarters can be found in this UI design video.
1.00-1.20: Slay table UI
1.54-1.60: Establishment/Corp Quarters UI

There are loads of good ideas out there. Frankly I think those two complement each other perfectly. One area that really isn't safe and adds new resources and dangers into the Eve universe, and one that adds corporate social environments with economic and corporate implications.

Scatim Helicon wrote:
When you say "People weren't mad about Incarna, they were mad about microtransactions" you chose to overlook the fact that the only reason Incarna was developed in the first place was as an environment to show off your microtransactions.


As you point out, they have been talking about walking in stations since 2006. Which is well before the micro-transactions business model was in use. In 2006 people would have laughed at you for talking about selling in game items for real money. So they couldn't have proposed WiS just for the purpose of selling us micro-transaction. Think before you post man.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#182 - 2013-12-08 16:32:07 UTC
BLACK-STAR wrote:


Stations
  • Lobby with elevators to areas and customized areas to reduce loading all rooms and ppl. Preset offices are there like Concord, Medical, Bounty etc. Add a Lotto booth.
  • Allow ppl in CQ to jump to any area in the station through the elevators.'
  • Areas of the station can be password protected or privatized to corp/alliance/contacts only.
  • Offices/Rooms can be installed:
  • Corp Offices, with charts and reports, sovereignty and militia info.
  • NPC Offices, make your own agents with their own abusive personalities, needs, payouts, upgrade their CV's etc. Get noobs to run some missions from your agent and maybe hint them to join your corp as a recruiting mechanism. ?
  • Custom Rooms:
  • slots players must rent and can expire or be evicted. Different tiers and types of rooms to accommodate player gatherings:
  • War Rooms, loaded with features. e.g. star map display with presets/campaigns loaded by the corp/alliance.
  • Event Rooms, social gathering rooms of different tiers to accommodate different amounts of players, items, abilities etc. Such as bars, gambling games and mini games. People could probably use these as club rooms or hording frozen corpses.
  • Shops, players can sell what they want. Reliable tradesman would have kept their rent up and eventually build a customer base he trades/sells -- even this can apply for a corp trying to sell things at a large scale. Shops (and public Event Rooms) can have public feedback on their information tabs and erasable after closed for a duration of time.


I think mostly roll players would use it but I think the War Room would be cool to realtime plan an op with your fleet, friends, militia, whatever group. Making your own station and getting the right people creating feasible content inside of it to generate income/traffic (or gamble it in the bar/mini games) is probably the only interest people and new comers would have in it. You're still going to have players that will never leave a Hangar and able to buy through the shop in the neocom.


While I actually support all of your ideas, I have to raise a slight argument.

If you considered all of the above implemented as a stand alone game, as "EvE - Life in Stations" or such.

I don't think you'd find enough supporters.

Partly because a solid chunk of current EvE players would scream "WHERE'S THE SPACESHIPS!" but also because players who really want what's was described can find that in several other games.

Could any of the above be added without considerable amount of resources invested, fine, but I don't that's possible.

Since I am of the opinion that the current state of 'Avatar' engine in EvE is nowhere near able to provide the above it has to be considered almost as a new game.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Luca Lure
Obertura
#183 - 2013-12-08 16:42:24 UTC
Starbuck05 wrote:
I don't get what the big deal about this whole wis thing is... If u want such gameplay grab GTA5 or something and hf ! Eve is about space and space ships if u add WiS then no one will be out in space anymore..we'll all be at the station's bar looking at female avatars asses all day long...


The fact that you don't get it, means.... that you don't get it. Well, you don't have to get it. If enough EVE players get it, CCP should make it possible. And it's not that hard. Just let people walk around. The whole graphical engine is there already. No dev needed. Just some design work. People can then walk through the station. No more action is needed. No more options or features. Just let them walk there. Maybe design a bar and tie in a chat window. Should be a good start.

――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――

The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#184 - 2013-12-08 17:10:51 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Kinvaryn wrote:


From a design and idea standpoint, there is a tremendous amount of content that could be added to greatly improve both the new and veteran player experiences from the CQ/WIS standpoint. Such opportunity should not be passed over.



Like what though?

No one has given up one decent suggestion about what would actually be added in terms of real content by WiS

Im not having a go, Im seriously asking...


Beyond turning the station buttons into places you had to spend time walking to, what extra content would WiS allow?


It doesn't matter what ideas anyone comes up with they will always be shot down with a 'you can add that functionality to the neo com' type of comment. The incarna trailer did hint at things being done off line where's no network to register things so that would be social interaction and verbal agreements. Yes that can be done on TeamSpeak or mumble etc, but I don't subscribe every single month to play 'TeamSpeak' in space I play Eve Online. That's what I want FIS with meaningful Avatar interaction for when the ships are grounded.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#185 - 2013-12-08 17:23:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Scatim Helicon wrote:
When you say "People weren't mad about Incarna, they were mad about microtransactions" you chose to overlook the fact that the only reason Incarna was developed in the first place was as an environment to show off your microtransactions.

CCP sold you a bucket of empty promises and hype about immersion and social environments and corp offices to mask the reality that all they were providing were catwalks for you to parade around in your monocles and space shoes after paying for the same game twice, and they were so locked into that goal that they released the NeX Store and Captain's Quarters even when every other promise made for Incarna had fallen by the wayside. Amazingly, some of you are so easily fooled that you're still buying into that hype today, long after the charade has collapsed in flames and what work has been done on WiS since then is the gameplay concepts that should have been in development back in 2006.


Don't mix what were CCP's attempts vs what the players wanted or want.

CCP has been free to try with WiS + Aurum, golden ammo, $1000 pants, MTs and freeware gutting licensing and likewise we have been free to stick the huge middle finger.

That's market 101 for you.

Now the ball is in CCP's court and they'll decide what / if to do knowing a bit more about big fingers.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#186 - 2013-12-08 17:27:42 UTC
Luca Lure wrote:
The whole graphical engine is there already. No dev needed.

Have you even tried it?
It's very pretty but as a 3D engine goes it's plain bad.

It's a very nice a promising start, but the state that we have in EvE today is awful.

CCP will probably not answer in 3-5 years, but I'm quite sure that the state of the avatar engine currently used at the Georgia office isn't the one currently in the EvE client.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#187 - 2013-12-08 17:31:20 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
When you say "People weren't mad about Incarna, they were mad about microtransactions" you chose to overlook the fact that the only reason Incarna was developed in the first place was as an environment to show off your microtransactions.


As you point out, they have been talking about walking in stations since 2006. Which is well before the micro-transactions business model was in use. In 2006 people would have laughed at you for talking about selling in game items for real money. So they couldn't have proposed WiS just for the purpose of selling us micro-transaction. Think before you post man.


I specifically said 'Incarna' and not 'WiS', as Incarna is the 2nd stage of the whole Walking In Stations concept. Stage one was 'Ambulation' and was never developed beyond early concepts and graphics demos since there was no overriding incentive to push it forward. Incarna was the second stage, where the carrot of Microtransactions was dangled before CCP management and dollar signs flashing before their eyes gave them the push to work on it to release. We're now in the 3rd stage, the 'exploration' concept where CCP are thinking of ways to include actual gameplay which ties into Eve, rather than just a catwalk to show off your monocles and jackets. It remains to be seen whether the 3rd stage will get the impetus it needs for release or whether it sits on a shelf as the Ambulation likely would have.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#188 - 2013-12-08 17:32:43 UTC
Since I can vaguely recall it being mentioned as an idea going forward as far back as 2004, the above argument about 2006 seems silly. It's been a commonly proposed idea since the game first went live.

However, I can say that micro-transactions in gaming have been around for a very long time.

Anyone ever been to a video arcade?

Stitcher
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#189 - 2013-12-08 17:33:06 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
It's a very nice a promising start, but the state that we have in EvE today is awful.


In what way? It looks good, and I can have multiple copies of the client open at the same time, viewing full-body avatars on each of them while looking at my dude in each of them, and it ticks over at a nice and smooth 60fps.

where's the problem? How is it awful?

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#190 - 2013-12-08 17:34:16 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
When you say "People weren't mad about Incarna, they were mad about microtransactions" you chose to overlook the fact that the only reason Incarna was developed in the first place was as an environment to show off your microtransactions.

CCP sold you a bucket of empty promises and hype about immersion and social environments and corp offices to mask the reality that all they were providing were catwalks for you to parade around in your monocles and space shoes after paying for the same game twice, and they were so locked into that goal that they released the NeX Store and Captain's Quarters even when every other promise made for Incarna had fallen by the wayside. Amazingly, some of you are so easily fooled that you're still buying into that hype today, long after the charade has collapsed in flames and what work has been done on WiS since then is the gameplay concepts that should have been in development back in 2006.


Not true the Nex store initially came about so that purchases of vanity items could pay for artwork, those art guys at CCP are talented and their skills are always in demand, unfortunately it's expensive so the initial plan for Nex/Aur etc was to generate extra funding so that ships like the Moa and the Blackbird could be redesigned and represented to the player base in a timely fashion. Sadly the whole 'greed is good' leak alarmed the playerbase into thinking that CCP were going to go even further and allow pay to win items with real in game bonuses that could not be earned any other way.

As for paying for the game twice.

Buy some Plex and Sell for ISk, buy a new faction ship = Paying for the game twice.
Buy some Plex and train a second character on the same account = Paying for the game twice.
Buy some plex and run a second account = paying for the game twice.
Buy some Plex and train a third character on the same account = Paying for the game three times.

Don't tell me that Mr Average in eve makes enough isk to do all of the above by buying plex in isk, because even if he did someone else must have bought the plex with cash to start off with, meaning that lots of people are paying for the game twice!

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#191 - 2013-12-08 17:37:19 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
BLACK-STAR wrote:


Stations
  • Lobby with elevators to areas and customized areas to reduce loading all rooms and ppl. Preset offices are there like Concord, Medical, Bounty etc. Add a Lotto booth.
  • Allow ppl in CQ to jump to any area in the station through the elevators.'
  • Areas of the station can be password protected or privatized to corp/alliance/contacts only.
  • Offices/Rooms can be installed:
  • Corp Offices, with charts and reports, sovereignty and militia info.
  • NPC Offices, make your own agents with their own abusive personalities, needs, payouts, upgrade their CV's etc. Get noobs to run some missions from your agent and maybe hint them to join your corp as a recruiting mechanism. ?
  • Custom Rooms:
  • slots players must rent and can expire or be evicted. Different tiers and types of rooms to accommodate player gatherings:
  • War Rooms, loaded with features. e.g. star map display with presets/campaigns loaded by the corp/alliance.
  • Event Rooms, social gathering rooms of different tiers to accommodate different amounts of players, items, abilities etc. Such as bars, gambling games and mini games. People could probably use these as club rooms or hording frozen corpses.
  • Shops, players can sell what they want. Reliable tradesman would have kept their rent up and eventually build a customer base he trades/sells -- even this can apply for a corp trying to sell things at a large scale. Shops (and public Event Rooms) can have public feedback on their information tabs and erasable after closed for a duration of time.


I think mostly roll players would use it but I think the War Room would be cool to realtime plan an op with your fleet, friends, militia, whatever group. Making your own station and getting the right people creating feasible content inside of it to generate income/traffic (or gamble it in the bar/mini games) is probably the only interest people and new comers would have in it. You're still going to have players that will never leave a Hangar and able to buy through the shop in the neocom.


While I actually support all of your ideas, I have to raise a slight argument.

If you considered all of the above implemented as a stand alone game, as "EvE - Life in Stations" or such.

I don't think you'd find enough supporters.

Partly because a solid chunk of current EvE players would scream "WHERE'S THE SPACESHIPS!" but also because players who really want what's was described can find that in several other games.

Could any of the above be added without considerable amount of resources invested, fine, but I don't that's possible.

Since I am of the opinion that the current state of 'Avatar' engine in EvE is nowhere near able to provide the above it has to be considered almost as a new game.


Perhaps the way to go is an Eve online expansion pack with an increased monthly subscription to pay for it. Undock, enter the CQ walk to the door and click the red button and the client loads the additional pack. That way people who don't want it and don't want to pay for it don't have to.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#192 - 2013-12-08 17:38:36 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Don't mix what were CCP's attempts vs what the players wanted or want.

CCP has been free to try with WiS + Aurum, golden ammo, $1000 pants, MTs and freeware gutting licensing and likewise we have been free to stick the huge middle finger.

That's market 101 for you.

Now the ball is in CCP's court and they'll decide what / if to do knowing a bit more about big fingers.

And here is is again, but from the other perspective ;)

Remember that CCP isn't EvE.

CCP has one solid hit, but it would be business suicide to bank on that one solid hit.

It's really market 101, if you can afford it, diversify.

What CCP is doing is the same as any remotely clever user would do. What skills do I have, what resources to I have and how can I gain maximum payout?

So if they do stuff that you don't like, imagine yourself filling Seagull chair while she's away. And come up with something good.

Get it good enough and I might be offered a new job ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#193 - 2013-12-08 17:52:30 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


Perhaps the way to go is an Eve online expansion pack with an increased monthly subscription to pay for it. Undock, enter the CQ walk to the door and click the red button and the client loads the additional pack. That way people who don't want it and don't want to pay for it don't have to.

Would it really?

It's been used by several studios, to varying effect.

I don't think it will work for EvE.

And that's down to my earlier analysis, EvE - Life in Stations, wouldn't sell well enough.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Mr Pragmatic
#194 - 2013-12-08 18:18:39 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


Perhaps the way to go is an Eve online expansion pack with an increased monthly subscription to pay for it. Undock, enter the CQ walk to the door and click the red button and the client loads the additional pack. That way people who don't want it and don't want to pay for it don't have to.

Would it really?

It's been used by several studios, to varying effect.

I don't think it will work for EvE.

And that's down to my earlier analysis, EvE - Life in Stations, wouldn't sell well enough.


I beg to differ. But both sides are so entrenched their will be no convincing.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.

Stitcher
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#195 - 2013-12-08 18:45:13 UTC
Mr Pragmatic wrote:
I beg to differ. But both sides are so entrenched their will be no convincing.


I tend to agree with the idea that when you're debating with somebody it's not so much about convincing them to change their mind as that's unlikely to happen - the objective is to figure out where the root of the disagreement is.

If the subject in question where there is objectively a correct answer, such as "Are humans apes?" Then if two people disagree over the answer then there's no middle ground - at least one of those people is wrong. In those cases, you can either convince the person who's in the wrong of their incorrectness and resolve it or (vastly more likely) the person who's in the right gives up out of exhaustion, disgust and frustration.

If two people disagree over something that is more subjective, such as "would EVE Online be enriched by the introduction of avatar-based gameplay?" then there's no "right" or "wrong" involved. Just value judgements. and in such cases, you almost never get a case where one side talks the other round to their point of view.

So the value of it all lies in figuring out where the fundamental disagreement is, which helps make informed decisions and allows third parties (such as the devs) to try and strip out the bias and emotive talk and see to the root of the conflict.

We've identified a fundamental disagreement in this thread already: some people think that the core of EVE is spaceships, some others think that the core of EVE is the sandbox and that spaceships are the medium through which the sandbox reaches us.

Of course, people in the former group are objectively wrong. Pirate

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#196 - 2013-12-08 19:01:06 UTC
Stitcher wrote:

We've identified a fundamental disagreement in this thread already: some people think that the core of EVE is spaceships, some others think that the core of EVE is the sandbox and that spaceships are the medium through which the sandbox reaches us.

In true Eve GD tradition I want to object even to this seemingly objective statement ;)

In my (not very) humble opinion it doesn't come down to what we see 'core game play'.

It comes down to we think that CCP should be using their resources to do.

And there's obviously a difference both between different people and in some cases even within the same people of what they want to be done and what they think can be done.

"giving a starving man a fish might save his day, teaching him how to fish might save his life, trying to tell him how to build a fishing fleet and complete procession plant might kill both of you".

Stitcher wrote:

Of course, people in the former group are objectively wrong. Pirate

Everyone who doesn't agree with me are always wrong, until they've joined my side or convinced me to your theirs.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2013-12-08 19:06:14 UTC
I think the part that makes me smile these days deals with the EVE advertisements I see across the web.

RUBICON! - The foreground shows these different looking people in futuristic clothing - background has the ships flying.

It's amusing on their understanding of what will sell and bring in new customers (the avatars) while the implementation of that part of the game is wandering around a room by yourself.
Gerad Osmos
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#198 - 2013-12-08 20:26:44 UTC
The - Case for walking in stations & more: Just a quick thought. Wanted to make a small contribution to the thread (Of course this is just my own theory/intuition/...)

1. What is CCP's ultimate business goal?
To maximize profits under the condition of achieving its vision.

2. How to achieve the vision / what is the vision?
As far as I can recall at the moment I think it was something along the lines of:
"Creating experiences more meaningfull than real life" or in other worlds make EVE "real" - as in "EVE is real".
In order to achieve this vision two things have to be fullfilled: First, the degree of immersion of the EVE franchise has to be optimized in order to "make it real". Second, the number as well as the significance of opportunities for players of EVE franchise games to "make a dent" and achieve meaningful things and have a persistant impact on the universe have to be optimized.
One could interpret the vision as the developement towards a maximum immersion sci-fi universe that lifes and breathes just like our (real) universe (probably) does. While promoting opportuinities for players of EVE franchise products to interact and play in a fashion that makes the experience meaningful and the players impact real.

3. How to maximize profits?
Not going into detail - Profit = Revenue - Cost
CCP's cost structure should be relatively rigid and hard to save a lot of money while pursuing current business goals.
So the "easier" and more constructive way to increase profit would be boosting revenue.
(Near future) revenue is based on two strings of revenue. First and mainly the EVE universe franchise. Second (the long-term safeguard) world of Darkness. With the recent expansion of the EVE franchise I think, the impact of World of Darkness will be negligable in the next few years. --> Ergo: Comparatively greater leverage if revenue of EVE universe franchise is boosted. (Lets concentrate on EVE franchise games)
Personally, I think the idea behind the "EVE is real" sort of vision is going into the right direction. After all a lot of people probably have put thought into it. But back to topic ...

There are only a few options to grow revenue. Some are: a) increase prices (which is always a risky thing), b) make the existing customers buy more of your products, c) get new customers.
rg a: Increasing prices is risky and there is a limit not too far off where the current prices are
rg b: Make existing customers buy more of ur stuff is actually a viable option as long as you can create needs for other products of yours or can create products and a need for them. However, creating products almost always incures cost and there again is a limit to the number of products you can push out in a certain amount of time
rg c: Getting new ppl to develope a need for your products is one of the most profitable ways to increase profit (especially with software). Cost are almost non existant buy getting a new customer and the potential for revenue growth is huge.

Lets elaborate on c (new customers): Putting aside marketing cost (which I argue dont have to be increased to get new customers. Looking at the development of EVE franchise products, I argue that by simply making the games more immersive, accessible and easier to get into is a key element for increasing profit with EVE franchise products in the next decade. The core game is running, the universe has been defined to a degree where it has become a stable platform for future expansion. I argue that by boosting immersion with the EVE universe, boosting accessibility and tearing down entry level barriers to new customers, new heights of profit and vision fullfillment could be reached. Of course this is still a at least mid-term development that would have to be pushed.

4. Personal motivation
I love the EVE universe and I am seeking immersion. Immersion can be boosted in many ways, but contrary to hard core players that are thriving for the next "level/gear/killmail", for me, the experience, the immersion, the feeling of being part of the EVE universe is what drives my gameplay. I do like almost all activities out there in space and have tried them all. I dont care whether I am mining for hours, PVPin, roleplaying, exploring, trading, et cetera. What drives my need to play EVE franchise products and ultimately makes me pay the subscription or buy plex in EVE is the immersion, the feeling of being part of the EVE universe with all its fiction, politics, people, products, ships and opportunities to interact.

5. The Catch to the idea
My argument builds on the premise that potential customers of EVE franchise products, which are not effectively reached today desire a more immersive and complete sci-fi experience. That goes for any EVE franchise product.
I have not conducted any research on whether this is true, but most certainly EVE Online and also other existing EVE franchise products have a reputation to be "hard-core" / "with a steep learing curve" relative to other games/products in a genre/product group. Furthermore, from my own experience and of ppl I know, this is what they (and they are more the "normal" gamer kind of ppl) want. I dare to say the a huge part of the world likes the EVE universe and its fiction, politics, and scandals (see news coverage). Lastly, the development of subscription growth in EVE over the years is a more or less predictable function. We know what CCP had to do to get this growth (+ have learned some tabus in order to prevent huge future drops in subscriptions). If they continue the old path the growth is likely to be similar. In order to really accomplish CCPs goals I think they should really work on improving immersion and the EVE universe itself (as described above).

In this context: Walking in Stations GO!

(Note: just had to write this of my mind; sry for bad writing, if argument is received well - will write a proper post on the topic later, when got time)
dreada0
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2013-12-08 20:47:27 UTC
This is my first post in EVE after playing on and off for 4 years.

I cancelled my subscription again today (after coming back for a month to see the new expansion) because I got bored again. Not enough immersion. Internet spaceships, PvP, modding your ship are tired and boring concepts. This is 2013 and many want something new, something like Incarna, EVA, Valkyrie/Oculus Rift. Perhaps Star Citizen will succeed where EVE left off, I don't know. But CCP can stick with the current player base and limit itself from growing further or it can invest in something new and reap the rewards. Its that simple.
Luca Lure
Obertura
#200 - 2013-12-08 20:55:26 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Luca Lure wrote:
The whole graphical engine is there already. No dev needed.

Have you even tried it?
It's very pretty but as a 3D engine goes it's plain bad.

It's a very nice a promising start, but the state that we have in EvE today is awful.

CCP will probably not answer in 3-5 years, but I'm quite sure that the state of the avatar engine currently used at the Georgia office isn't the one currently in the EvE client.


We don't need fast movements or the best engine over here. Just walking and talking. So, I think the current one is more than enough to start with. People are then going to use it, in which case they can put effort in it, or nobody uses it anymore and these discussions are over. Easy as that.

――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――

The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks.