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Dev Blog: No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon

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Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#1301 - 2013-10-23 19:58:50 UTC
Icesail wrote:

I caught it in the post from CCP. I was pointing out that I as well as others thought it was going to be part of guerrilla warfare when it was first announced. I was disappointed when they said otherwise. Ultimately the first iteration of the siphoning is a minor nuisance to some and a waste of time for making isk. One can only hope that CCP does better on the progression of this potentially game changing addition.

The 2 additions for guerrilla warfare are weak. CCP, shake it up instead of the little girls fart you're currently giving us!


Yeah, I was of that same opinion as well, and was also likewise disappointed when CCP stated it too. However, I would disagree with you on the Warp Acceleration/Speed being a weak change. By what I've read and what I've tested, that is going to be a huge change. But that is getting off the Syphon topic, which I agree still could use some work.. and some clarification with the larger versions.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Catherine Plume
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
#1302 - 2013-10-23 20:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Plume
Finally ! 6 years after I and others submited the idea of ninja moon mining, it is going to be implemented !

Love you CCP !


Link to old forums post #106
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1303 - 2013-10-23 23:25:26 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The rules:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#1304 - 2013-10-24 10:47:37 UTC
If moonming is so damned unprofitable after the patch, why not pull down the POS and deal with it?

Or raise the prices, like thats never been tried/done before.

Just sayin'..
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1305 - 2013-10-24 12:21:43 UTC
Herr Esiq wrote:
If moonming is so damned unprofitable after the patch, why not pull down the POS and deal with it?

Or raise the prices, like thats never been tried/done before.

Just sayin'..
If as many believe the smaller lowsec operators are targeted adversely (over and over by griefers) then there is a big chance many will simply pull down poses and move on. This in turn will cause prices to begin to shift, more than likely up as those with a monopoly rarely give out discounts.
A lot of what helps keep prices down is competition, from those outside the monopolies, small operators who aren't making billions per month but do it because it's better than running missions or mining, force them out and everyone ends up paying more.

Now the biggest problem for those wishing to target the monopolies is, how do you know if a moon mining operation is really a small solo operator or an alt corp of PL or Goons or one of the other major players in moon goo.


My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#1306 - 2013-10-24 12:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Esiq
Raise the prices and i (people) just have to steal more. At least now people have a chance to compensate unimposed prices.

And most people just dealt with all the threats™ of rising prices since all that OTEC/NOTEC trolling of last year.
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1307 - 2013-10-24 13:37:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Zakhin Desver
Possible consequences of tech II prices getting higher: even better performance/ISK in tech III ships vs tech II ships

Also, keep in mind rebalancing moongoo in lowsec and banning syphons there, just in case. We want problems mainly for big alliances in null.
Punctator
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1308 - 2013-10-24 15:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Punctator
hey CCP if you realy want to make something useful - when you make this syphons turn off pos-api. There is too much information availabe out of game in eve, there is no space for grief motherfuckers like goonswarm who have so advenced programs to control information out of game.

there should be no option to check what is in silos and how much is stuff in silos using api to prevent oog syphon detection.

CCP DONT MAKE FUTURE THAT WE CANOT USE AGAINST THE STRONGEST or you just make another fail path.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1309 - 2013-10-24 15:46:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Marzetti
Herr Esiq wrote:
Raise the prices and i (people) just have to steal more. At least now people have a chance to compensate unimposed prices.

And most people just dealt with all the threats™ of rising prices since all that OTEC/NOTEC trolling of last year.

That's brilliant! For us, I mean. Because the more you steal, the more it reduces the supply due to the wastage factor. So you do that, buddy!
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#1310 - 2013-10-24 16:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Esiq
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Herr Esiq wrote:
Raise the prices and i (people) just have to steal more. At least now people have a chance to compensate unimposed prices.

And most people just dealt with all the threats™ of rising prices since all that OTEC/NOTEC trolling of last year.

That's brilliant! For us, I mean. Because the more you steal, the more it reduces the supply due to the wastage factor. So you do that, buddy!

Assuming this isnt one of those threats™ that prices will rise; on a individual level if you steal only 50m a month its already profitable compensating for moon minerals. The T2 ingredients in modules dont cost that much, even after an increase.

People dont stop ganking freighters because 'the market would run out of cheap supply'. Yet with every ganked freighter some materials are gone forever.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#1311 - 2013-10-24 16:50:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Varius Xeral
They're not saying "don't introduce siphons because t2 prices will rise", they're saying "despite your ~pubbie bleating about being space gorillas and taking down goonswarm, it's actually only going to benefit goons in the long run strategically, ignoring the entertainment (or lack thereof) aspect of introducing an otherwise nauseating spam structure mechanic".

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#1312 - 2013-10-24 16:55:48 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
They're not saying "don't introduce siphons because t2 prices will rise", they're saying "despite your ~pubbie bleating about being space gorillas and taking down goonswarm, it's actually only going to benefit goons in the long run strategically, ignoring the entertainment (or lack thereof) aspect of introduction of an otherwise nauseating spam structure mechanic".

I know lots of people suffer from Narcissus complex, but i thought we where just discussing mechanics. Stop dragging Goons into every discussion.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#1313 - 2013-10-24 17:03:52 UTC
That's the discussion you're in and that's the argument you are addressing, whether you are aware of it or not.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1314 - 2013-10-24 17:06:06 UTC
Herr Esiq wrote:
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Herr Esiq wrote:
Raise the prices and i (people) just have to steal more. At least now people have a chance to compensate unimposed prices.

And most people just dealt with all the threats™ of rising prices since all that OTEC/NOTEC trolling of last year.

That's brilliant! For us, I mean. Because the more you steal, the more it reduces the supply due to the wastage factor. So you do that, buddy!

Assuming this isnt one of those threats™ that prices will rise; on a individual level if you steal only 50m a month its already profitable compensating for moon minerals. The T2 ingredients in modules dont cost that much, even after an increase.

People dont stop ganking freighters because 'the market would run out of cheap supply'. Yet with every ganked freighter some materials are gone forever.


Do you actually think it's a threat to say that if supply goes down and demand stays the same, prices will go up? If so, every introductory economics book is threatening you right now.

You, as a thief, might do very well for yourself under such circumstances, and good for you I say. People holding large stockpiles will also do very well. In both cases, it will be at someone else's expense, and that's Eve. What's so hilarious about this thread is that the "someone else" is clamoring for this change, certain that somehow it will benefit them simply because it appears (to their uncritical eyes) that it will work against their enemies.
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#1315 - 2013-10-24 17:09:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Esiq
Varius Xeral wrote:
That's the discussion you're in and that's the argument you are addressing, whether you are aware of it or not.

For comedy factor I appreciate you stearing everything towards the Goons, but I live nowhere close to them. Thus your argument is invalid, whether you are aware of it or not.

This is about individuals taking money out of a broken system.

Johnny Marzetti wrote:

Do you actually think it's a threat to say that if supply goes down and demand stays the same, prices will go up? If so, every introductory economics book is threatening you right now.

Like you said, the stolen commodities will bring higher value to the market, and I have no problem with that.

Goodpost.. +1
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1316 - 2013-10-24 17:13:52 UTC
Your hair is not a bird.
Stevo76
Br0wn Coat5
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#1317 - 2013-10-24 18:18:50 UTC
I haven't read through 66 pages so not sure if someone has already said this but....

Why not just stick a load of siphon units on your own POS (by alt corp if necessary)? Yeah your yield would be down overall, but if it's your siphon units that are installed first don't they get the goo? Anyone else that comes after would have to blow up all your siphon units for it to be profitable for them, and will come under fire by the POS guns?
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#1318 - 2013-10-24 18:22:08 UTC
That wouldnt work because the Siphon Units are like free for all containers. Everyone can take the content out.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1319 - 2013-10-24 18:54:51 UTC
Stevo76 wrote:
I haven't read through 66 pages so not sure if someone has already said this but....

Why not just stick a load of siphon units on your own POS (by alt corp if necessary)? Yeah your yield would be down overall, but if it's your siphon units that are installed first don't they get the goo? Anyone else that comes after would have to blow up all your siphon units for it to be profitable for them, and will come under fire by the POS guns?

Please do so and tell me where your POS are. I'll show you why it's a good idea.

(Anybody can scoop stuff from a siphon. Fill in the rest yourself.)
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1320 - 2013-10-24 21:11:36 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Stevo76 wrote:
I haven't read through 66 pages so not sure if someone has already said this but....

Why not just stick a load of siphon units on your own POS (by alt corp if necessary)? Yeah your yield would be down overall, but if it's your siphon units that are installed first don't they get the goo? Anyone else that comes after would have to blow up all your siphon units for it to be profitable for them, and will come under fire by the POS guns?

Please do so and tell me where your POS are. I'll show you why it's a good idea.

(Anybody can scoop stuff from a siphon. Fill in the rest yourself.)


Damn you, I wanted to answer him Twisted