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Dev Blog: No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon

First post First post First post
Author
Stevo76
Br0wn Coat5
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#1321 - 2013-10-24 21:39:23 UTC
Zakhin Desver wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Stevo76 wrote:
I haven't read through 66 pages so not sure if someone has already said this but....

Why not just stick a load of siphon units on your own POS (by alt corp if necessary)? Yeah your yield would be down overall, but if it's your siphon units that are installed first don't they get the goo? Anyone else that comes after would have to blow up all your siphon units for it to be profitable for them, and will come under fire by the POS guns?

Please do so and tell me where your POS are. I'll show you why it's a good idea.

(Anybody can scoop stuff from a siphon. Fill in the rest yourself.)


Damn you, I wanted to answer him Twisted


Thanks lads I had the info I needed from the 1st response. Without trawling 66 pages of people spilling tears about manning their POS.

Fly safe.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1322 - 2013-10-25 00:05:03 UTC
Herr Esiq wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
They're not saying "don't introduce siphons because t2 prices will rise", they're saying "despite your ~pubbie bleating about being space gorillas and taking down goonswarm, it's actually only going to benefit goons in the long run strategically, ignoring the entertainment (or lack thereof) aspect of introduction of an otherwise nauseating spam structure mechanic".

I know lots of people suffer from Narcissus complex, but i thought we where just discussing mechanics. Stop dragging Goons into every discussion.

Love to be invoked

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1323 - 2013-10-25 00:19:33 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Herr Esiq wrote:
If moonming is so damned unprofitable after the patch, why not pull down the POS and deal with it?

Or raise the prices, like thats never been tried/done before.

Just sayin'..
If as many believe the smaller lowsec operators are targeted adversely (over and over by griefers) then there is a big chance many will simply pull down poses and move on. This in turn will cause prices to begin to shift, more than likely up as those with a monopoly rarely give out discounts.
A lot of what helps keep prices down is competition, from those outside the monopolies, small operators who aren't making billions per month but do it because it's better than running missions or mining, force them out and everyone ends up paying more.

Very nicely said. Make no mistake, this is what will end up happening.

We're cutting out our nose to spite the face. Yet in the end, the monopolies will only be stronger with less competition. This will be an excellent tool to grief small POS owners out of business.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1324 - 2013-10-25 00:30:22 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Herr Esiq wrote:
If moonming is so damned unprofitable after the patch, why not pull down the POS and deal with it?

Or raise the prices, like thats never been tried/done before.

Just sayin'..
If as many believe the smaller lowsec operators are targeted adversely (over and over by griefers) then there is a big chance many will simply pull down poses and move on. This in turn will cause prices to begin to shift, more than likely up as those with a monopoly rarely give out discounts.
A lot of what helps keep prices down is competition, from those outside the monopolies, small operators who aren't making billions per month but do it because it's better than running missions or mining, force them out and everyone ends up paying more.

Very nicely said. Make no mistake, this is what will end up happening.

We're cutting out our nose to spite the face. Yet in the end, the monopolies will only be stronger with less competition. This will be an excellent tool to grief small POS owners out of business.

I love seeing new features that hurt goons

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1325 - 2013-10-25 01:05:59 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Herr Esiq wrote:
If moonming is so damned unprofitable after the patch, why not pull down the POS and deal with it?

Or raise the prices, like thats never been tried/done before.

Just sayin'..
If as many believe the smaller lowsec operators are targeted adversely (over and over by griefers) then there is a big chance many will simply pull down poses and move on. This in turn will cause prices to begin to shift, more than likely up as those with a monopoly rarely give out discounts.
A lot of what helps keep prices down is competition, from those outside the monopolies, small operators who aren't making billions per month but do it because it's better than running missions or mining, force them out and everyone ends up paying more.

Very nicely said. Make no mistake, this is what will end up happening.

We're cutting out our nose to spite the face. Yet in the end, the monopolies will only be stronger with less competition. This will be an excellent tool to grief small POS owners out of business.

I love seeing new features that hurt goons


"hurt goons" should read, "help goons"
I'm sure it was a simple oversight on your part and you hit the wrong keys. Big smile

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1326 - 2013-10-25 01:26:41 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
"hurt goons" should read, "help goons"
I'm sure it was a simple oversight on your part and you hit the wrong keys. Big smile

You will truly understand the game only when you realize that the two are one and the same.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1327 - 2013-10-25 10:59:55 UTC
2 moon harvesters feed directly into a reactor then reactor to silo. A syphon is only going to take 25 units of what goes into the silo and lose 10% of that in transit.
On a hexite reaction 200 ph is produced so 175 units makes it to the silo safely and the syphon gets 22.5 units?

So syphon's will only take product, raw or simple reaction, inbound to a silo?


I'm sure I saw the answer to this but can't remember what it was or find it now .

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1328 - 2013-10-25 11:07:38 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
2 moon harvesters feed directly into a reactor then reactor to silo. A syphon is only going to take 25 units of what goes into the silo and lose 10% of that in transit.
On a hexite reaction 200 ph is produced so 175 units makes it to the silo safely and the syphon gets 22.5 units?

So syphon's will only take product, raw or simple reaction, inbound to a silo?


I'm sure I saw the answer to this but can't remember what it was or find it now .

try the dev blog it's in there
Super Chalupa
Bareback Pornstars
#1329 - 2013-10-25 11:57:26 UTC
Dumb, just dumb. Oh CCP whenever you think you have a great idea, you don't. Maybe, just maybe, you'll figure out why the membership of this game never really grows one day.
Hot Bird
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1330 - 2013-10-25 15:55:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hot Bird
Good Afternoon all,

I tested syphon unit this morning and that seems very good, but I'd like to know if this case is normal, then I tried to steal a simple reactor product in a large pos which had a moon harvester OFFLINE and a coupling arry link with OFFLINE too, and surprise my syphon stole the moon harvest product even it was offline.

I think that will be a futur exploit, Harvest a moon without moon harvester online.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1331 - 2013-10-25 17:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Hot Bird wrote:
Good Afternoon all,

I tested syphon unit this morning and that seems very good, but I'd like to know if this case is normal, then I tried to steal a simple reactor product in a large pos which had a moon harvester OFFLINE and a coupling arry link with OFFLINE too, and surprise my syphon stole the moon harvest product even it was offline.

I think that will be a futur exploit, Harvest a moon without moon harvester online.
That's not an exploit its a bug. If the harvester was offline there is no product for the syphon to steal therefore it should remain idle. If you wanted to be a good pumpkin you could send in a bug report letting them know the mechanic is broken.

Quote:
Exert from dev blog;
The stealing happens on the production cycles (once per hour). What is stolen comes from the production, thus items in storage are never stolen directly.
A siphon unit can only steal from the end of a chain. For example, if a POS has a two Moon Harvester Arrays that are both connected (through a Coupling Array/Silo) to an active Simple Reactor Array, then only the output from the Simple Reactor Array can be stolen. A siphon unit steals from a single chain each production cycle, so it cannot for instance steal both raw material and processed material at the same time.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Frothgar
Moosearmy
Pandemic Horde
#1332 - 2013-10-25 20:24:58 UTC
I'm enjoying this change quite a bit. There also seems to be a dynamic that most folks overlook as to why the SOV holders do not want this happening. What comes to mind is currently most moon resources are in the hands of a tiny handful of people in a given alliance. I love the dynamic where anyone can loot the syphon, including members of the corp it's stealing from.

So tell me, what incentive does Joe Schmoe have to pop a syphon, when it lets him take a resource his alliance was never going to share with him in the first place.

I think the SOV holders will say people benefit from the alliance because we provide X Y and Z. But it still remains, you don't give them cash, and this allows your own members to directly take cash anonymously from some entity they're having to normally pay out to.

I can't wait for this feature to go live. ^_^
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#1333 - 2013-10-25 20:59:54 UTC
Yeah, the blue on blue theft is a shining beacon in an otherwise awful mechanic.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1334 - 2013-10-25 21:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Frothgar wrote:
I'm enjoying this change quite a bit. There also seems to be a dynamic that most folks overlook as to why the SOV holders do not want this happening. What comes to mind is currently most moon resources are in the hands of a tiny handful of people in a given alliance. I love the dynamic where anyone can loot the syphon, including members of the corp it's stealing from.

So tell me, what incentive does Joe Schmoe have to pop a syphon, when it lets him take a resource his alliance was never going to share with him in the first place.

I think the SOV holders will say people benefit from the alliance because we provide X Y and Z. But it still remains, you don't give them cash, and this allows your own members to directly take cash anonymously from some entity they're having to normally pay out to.

I can't wait for this feature to go live. ^_^

You've been in some really terrible alliances. Trust me, just quit and find a decent one, don't waste your time stealing peanuts from yours.
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1335 - 2013-10-25 21:03:55 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Equaniox Maluran wrote:
Are siphons going to generate killmails?

Yes

Hmm. This sounds like a cheap way to get my killboard stats up: anchor siphons on my on POS, and then shoot them. What could go wrong?
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1336 - 2013-10-25 22:12:55 UTC
Huttan Funaila wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Equaniox Maluran wrote:
Are siphons going to generate killmails?

Yes

Hmm. This sounds like a cheap way to get my killboard stats up: anchor siphons on my on POS, and then shoot them. What could go wrong?

Just as cheap as buying 10M ships and blowing them up.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1337 - 2013-10-25 22:38:09 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Huttan Funaila wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Equaniox Maluran wrote:
Are siphons going to generate killmails?

Yes

Hmm. This sounds like a cheap way to get my killboard stats up: anchor siphons on my on POS, and then shoot them. What could go wrong?

Just as cheap as buying 10M ships and blowing them up.

Yeah, some cheap t1 frigates should do (the killboards are smart to rookie ship and pod kills).

Of course they cost a lot less.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#1338 - 2013-10-26 01:25:02 UTC
Frothgar wrote:
So tell me, what incentive does Joe Schmoe have to pop a syphon, when it lets him take a resource his alliance was never going to share with him in the first place.


Why am I not surprised a TriumvirateDOT guy is posting this?
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#1339 - 2013-10-26 01:35:57 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Frothgar wrote:
So tell me, what incentive does Joe Schmoe have to pop a syphon, when it lets him take a resource his alliance was never going to share with him in the first place.


Why am I not surprised a TriumvirateDOT guy is posting this?


lol

my thoughts as well

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1340 - 2013-10-26 04:46:27 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Frothgar wrote:
So tell me, what incentive does Joe Schmoe have to pop a syphon, when it lets him take a resource his alliance was never going to share with him in the first place.


Why am I not surprised a TriumvirateDOT guy is posting this?

Why am I not surprised a Goonswarm FEDERATION guy is trying to make some Ad Hominem attack?