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High Sec Income vs Null Sec Income - the reality

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Lipbite
Express Hauler
#21 - 2013-10-16 07:43:44 UTC
Zappity wrote:
I've been wandering through null in an alt lately. I see HEAPS of combat sites available in both NPC and sov null. I don’t understand why anyone would run missions in highsec.


Because

  1. combat exploration is overcomplicated;
  2. it's even more boring and frustrating than L4s (scanning mini-game, PvP in PvE ship, etc.);
  3. people don't need that much money for comfortable (hi-sec) gameplay.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#22 - 2013-10-16 07:45:00 UTC
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
Yes. complete safety. Definitely no cloaky t3's to deal with when you have sov!

Cloaky T3 are not that big a threat if you run the DED sites.

Unless he scanned it first and is waiting inside it.

If you run the sites with 2 - 3 dudes it should not be a problem. They can't bridge inside and don't make a lot of damage.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#23 - 2013-10-16 07:45:47 UTC
Ivain Freir wrote:
In your calculations, do you take in account the sov bill, the time spent on conquering and/or defending the sov especially the hasle of cross-timezone fights ?

To me that's seems fair that plexing in Null is far more profitable than doing missions in empire, as the task is far more difficult ?
It was "secure" for you because goonies are securing their space, so, because others were doing the biggest part of the job.


The people that "secure" the space will shoot ziona if they get a lock.

Their population in their own system will of course vary with deployments.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#24 - 2013-10-16 07:48:29 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Zappity wrote:
I've been wandering through null in an alt lately. I see HEAPS of combat sites available in both NPC and sov null. I don’t understand why anyone would run missions in highsec.


Because
  • people don't need that much money for comfortable (hi-sec) gameplay.
    • [/list]


    What 'gameplay' is there in highsec apart from mission running?

    Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
    Hypercake Mix
    #25 - 2013-10-16 07:49:02 UTC
    I can safely do L4s solo with one account whenever I want and the session doesn't end with "I wish D-scan had a key-bind"
    l0rd carlos
    the king asked me to guard the mountain
    #26 - 2013-10-16 07:50:08 UTC
    Lipbite wrote:
    There is major flaw in your 1 billion / hour calculation: you forgot to include billions in lost ships and hundreds of hours you've spent to gain knowledge of null.


    I have run hundrets of DED sites in both 0.0 and very active FW lowsec. I have never lost a ship that way, but I made a lot of kills on people trying to kill me.

    If you don't want to fight it's not that hard to avoid it.

    Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
    Infinity Ziona
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #27 - 2013-10-16 07:51:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
    Lipbite wrote:
    There is major flaw in your 1 billion / hour calculation: you forgot to include billions in lost ships and hundreds of hours you've spent to gain knowledge of null.

    No I didn't forget that. Only time I lost a ship in null recently was through stupidity (attacking obvious hotdrop bait and obvious battleship bait). Up until recently I was a highsec only war deccer / missioner. I'm relatively a null sec newb.

    Zappity the fits pretty standard.

    Highs

    Civilian turret
    Cloaking device
    Drone link


    Mids

    Corelum 10MN AB
    Pith C-Type Med Shield Booster
    Pith X-Type Kinetic Hardner
    Pith X-Type Thermal Hardner
    Pith X-Type EM Hardner (for The Maze Torp only)

    Lows

    3 Drone damage Amp II
    Nanofibre II
    Damage Control II

    Rigs

    Anti-Thermal Rig II
    That rig that speeds up booster cycles lol

    CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

    Kaalrus pwned..... :)
    Infinity Ziona
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #28 - 2013-10-16 08:03:49 UTC
    Ivain Freir wrote:
    In your calculations, do you take in account the sov bill, the time spent on conquering and/or defending the sov especially the hasle of cross-timezone fights ?

    To me that's seems fair that plexing in Null is far more profitable than doing missions in empire, as the task is far more difficult ?
    It was "secure" for you because goonies are securing their space, so, because others were doing the biggest part of the job.

    The reason I posted this was not to say null doesn't deserve extra bling but to try to dispell the myth that is commonly posted on this forum that high sec missions are better or more profitable than null sec.

    There are even suggestions sometimes that null seccers come to high to run missions to support their null play. Given that combat sites are so easy, require no standings and generate better bounties alone but also offer these billion isk bonanzas in loot quite often I find that really difficult to believe.

    CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

    Kaalrus pwned..... :)
    Onictus
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #29 - 2013-10-16 08:05:03 UTC
    Of course of the what....5 8/10s I've for done lately I've gotten nothing but overseers and a couple webs.

    And you need three ships to break a prison colonyArrow
    Amber Kurvora
    #30 - 2013-10-16 08:09:10 UTC
    Ivain Freir wrote:
    In your calculations, do you take in account the sov bill, the time spent on conquering and/or defending the sov especially the hasle of cross-timezone fights ?

    To me that's seems fair that plexing in Null is far more profitable than doing missions in empire, as the task is far more difficult ?
    It was "secure" for you because goonies are securing their space, so, because others were doing the biggest part of the job.



    You know what? Cry me a river. Day trippers into Null take risks with every hole they visit or every gate they jump through. They take risk with the locals, and with everyone who takes an interest in what a neutral is doing in a particular system. We don't get an intelligence network to guide us through the problematic parts, and we certainly don't get the knowledge that the people in system are friendlies or potentially hostile. Sure, we don't deal with the hug Null blobs, but that's part and parcel of wanting your own Sov. We just face a different set of dangers in being valid targets for almost everyone we share a system with.
    TharOkha
    0asis Group
    #31 - 2013-10-16 08:09:42 UTC
    Lipbite wrote:

  • people don't need that much money for comfortable (hi-sec) gameplay.
    • [/list]


    Since when non-hisec pilots determines how much money should hisec earn?

    CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
    Infinity Ziona
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #32 - 2013-10-16 08:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
    Onictus wrote:
    Of course of the what....5 8/10s I've for done lately I've gotten nothing but overseers and a couple webs.

    And you need three ships to break a prison colonyArrow

    Nah you only need one ship. Last room you orbit the Dewak guy, pop him, loot. Warp out. Unless there's another one I haven't done.

    I don't think there's a combat site that can't be run solo. And yeah sometimes you have a bad run but it never lasts.

    CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

    Kaalrus pwned..... :)
    Onictus
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #33 - 2013-10-16 08:22:04 UTC
    Infinity Ziona wrote:
    Ivain Freir wrote:
    In your calculations, do you take in account the sov bill, the time spent on conquering and/or defending the sov especially the hasle of cross-timezone fights ?

    To me that's seems fair that plexing in Null is far more profitable than doing missions in empire, as the task is far more difficult ?
    It was "secure" for you because goonies are securing their space, so, because others were doing the biggest part of the job.

    The reason I posted this was not to say null doesn't deserve extra bling but to try to dispell the myth that is commonly posted on this forum that high sec missions are better or more profitable than null sec.

    There are even suggestions sometimes that null seccers come to high to run missions to support their null play. Given that combat sites are so easy, require no standings and generate better bounties alone but also offer these billion isk bonanzas in loot quite often I find that really difficult to believe.


    No one said the potential isn't there. What the issue is that with all of the interruptions that living in null entails.....hot drops, campers, roaming gangs etc, you often make MORE in high sec, and yes I have an alt in high as well.

    ....oh and you have to hold your space, generally of all you do out here is rat you get removed. My corp had always been that way, many others are add well.

    So you took a day trip and got lucky. Bully for you.
    Infinity Ziona
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #34 - 2013-10-16 08:25:23 UTC
    Onictus wrote:
    Infinity Ziona wrote:
    Ivain Freir wrote:
    In your calculations, do you take in account the sov bill, the time spent on conquering and/or defending the sov especially the hasle of cross-timezone fights ?

    To me that's seems fair that plexing in Null is far more profitable than doing missions in empire, as the task is far more difficult ?
    It was "secure" for you because goonies are securing their space, so, because others were doing the biggest part of the job.

    The reason I posted this was not to say null doesn't deserve extra bling but to try to dispell the myth that is commonly posted on this forum that high sec missions are better or more profitable than null sec.

    There are even suggestions sometimes that null seccers come to high to run missions to support their null play. Given that combat sites are so easy, require no standings and generate better bounties alone but also offer these billion isk bonanzas in loot quite often I find that really difficult to believe.


    No one said the potential isn't there. What the issue is that with all of the interruptions that living in null entails.....hot drops, campers, roaming gangs etc, you often make MORE in high sec, and yes I have an alt in high as well.

    ....oh and you have to hold your space, generally of all you do out here is rat you get removed. My corp had always been that way, many others are add well.

    So you took a day trip and got lucky. Bully for you.

    No I've been out there for a month. For my 700 million Ishtar investment I have made around 7 billion in profit. The 2 billion was just yesterday.

    CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

    Kaalrus pwned..... :)
    Akrasjel Lanate
    Immemorial Coalescence Administration
    Immemorial Coalescence
    #35 - 2013-10-16 08:36:26 UTC
    Infinity Ziona wrote:

    Can you imagine how much alliance peeps are making having stations, fitting, friends and complete safety that I don't have the luxury of having.

    Given that, what is this rubbish about L4's and their amazing profitablity??? Curious minds would like to know.


    It mostly null sec whining for no aperent reasonRoll

    CEO of Lanate Industries

    Citizen of Solitude
    TharOkha
    0asis Group
    #36 - 2013-10-16 08:39:24 UTC
    Onictus wrote:


    No one said the potential isn't there. What the issue is that with all of the interruptions that living in null entails.....hot drops, campers, roaming gangs etc, you often make MORE in high sec, and yes I have an alt in high as well.

    ....oh and you have to hold your space, generally of all you do out here is rat you get removed. My corp had always been that way, many others are add well.

    So you took a day trip and got lucky. Bully for you.


    Interesting. I have been ninja ratting/plexing in null/wh many times and i have earned much much more than doing hisec L4s nearly every time. Yes you need to know how-when-where,but thats the price for higher income. And while L4s have some limitations in isk/hr, if you know how to beat isks from null NPCs, earnings overwhelms L4s in isk/hr by several magnitudes.

    Oh and i operate in hostile space always since im not a member of any political powerblock in EVE. Yes i lost several ships but compared to what i earned so far...well....f*ck hisec L4s.

    CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
    Xen Solarus
    Furious Destruction and Salvage
    #37 - 2013-10-16 08:42:24 UTC
    The time i spent living out in null was the most profitable time in EvE. Under the protection of the local Alliance, it was very easy to go and find some out of the way system, completely alone, and just rat and complex to my hearts content. The amount of isk generation was amazing, and even better with all the salvage added in. Someone appears in local? Just stop, and get somewhere safe. It was ridiculously easy. Passive shield-tanked Ishtar ftw! Cool

    Of course, the otherside of the coin was the constant politics, calls to arms and pointless gatecamps. Roll

    Considering the amount of isk it's possible to get from nullsec, i'm always surprised to hear people talk about nullsec players having mission running alts in empire. But regardless, anyone that says empire is more profitable than nullsec simply doesn't know what he's talking about, or is doing something very wrong.

    Post with your main, like a BOSS!

    And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
    Amber Kurvora
    #38 - 2013-10-16 08:45:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Amber Kurvora
    TharOkha wrote:
    Onictus wrote:


    No one said the potential isn't there. What the issue is that with all of the interruptions that living in null entails.....hot drops, campers, roaming gangs etc, you often make MORE in high sec, and yes I have an alt in high as well.

    ....oh and you have to hold your space, generally of all you do out here is rat you get removed. My corp had always been that way, many others are add well.

    So you took a day trip and got lucky. Bully for you.


    Interesting. I have been ninja ratting/plexing in null/wh many times and i have earned much much more than doing hisec L4s nearly every time. Yes you need to know how-when-where,but thats the price for higher income. And while L4s have some limitations in isk/hr, if you know how to beat isks from null NPCs, earnings overwhelms L4s in isk/hr by several magnitudes.

    Oh and i operate in hostile space always since im not a member of any political powerblock in EVE. Yes i lost several ships but compared to what i earned so far...well....f*ck hisec L4s.




    Part of the appeal is always going to be down to the drops. I mean sure, the cash they can bring is tasty, but it's the intrigue as to what they will or won't drop that appeals to me. It's the same reason I float around Null, hacking cans - the money per hour can be worse than mission running, or sometimes it can be a lot better, but it's mainly because I get a grin across my face when I find faction BPCs. With High Sec Lvl4s it's just a god damned grind with nothing to spice it up with.

    Edit: On a side note I get much better BPC drops in LS then I do in Null...what the hell is up with your random number generator CCP?
    Onictus
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #39 - 2013-10-16 08:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
    Amber Kurvora wrote:
    TharOkha wrote:
    Onictus wrote:


    No one said the potential isn't there. What the issue is that with all of the interruptions that living in null entails.....hot drops, campers, roaming gangs etc, you often make MORE in high sec, and yes I have an alt in high as well.

    ....oh and you have to hold your space, generally of all you do out here is rat you get removed. My corp had always been that way, many others are add well.

    So you took a day trip and got lucky. Bully for you.


    Interesting. I have been ninja ratting/plexing in null/wh many times and i have earned much much more than doing hisec L4s nearly every time. Yes you need to know how-when-where,but thats the price for higher income. And while L4s have some limitations in isk/hr, if you know how to beat isks from null NPCs, earnings overwhelms L4s in isk/hr by several magnitudes.

    Oh and i operate in hostile space always since im not a member of any political powerblock in EVE. Yes i lost several ships but compared to what i earned so far...well....f*ck hisec L4s.




    Part of the appeal is always going to be down to the drops. I mean sure, the cash they can bring is tasty, but it's the intrigue as to what they will or won't drop that appeals to me. It's the same reason I float around Null, hacking cans - the money per hour can be worse than mission running, or sometimes it can be a lot better, but it's mainly because I get a grin across my face when I find faction BPCs. With High Sec Lvl4s it's just a god damned grind with nothing to spice it up with.


    100 mil an hour isn't terribly hard......if left alone.....which is rare right now.

    But I can make 60/hr in high sec while in fleets with a high sec alt with borderline skills and 250 mil of raven AND not have to deal with the aggravation of hauling **** back to empire to sell it.
    Zappity
    New Eden Tank Testing Services
    #40 - 2013-10-16 09:01:56 UTC
    Onictus wrote:
    not have to deal with the aggravation of hauling **** back to empire to sell it.


    Wormholes are your friend, specifically those that lead straight to highsec. Lowsec holes are more common and work fine if you are close to a quiet highsec entry.

    Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.