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Balancing Feedback: Hybrid Turrets

First post First post
Author
Nemesor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#661 - 2011-11-14 19:56:26 UTC
So the expansion is feature complete?

One intro message and one update that addressed no one? Is that the sort of improved customer relations we should expect?
Jojo Jackson
Dead Red Eye
#662 - 2011-11-14 19:57:03 UTC
tika te wrote:
Quote:
over an abbadon with 200k+ ehp and 1400


just out of interrest...don't u ppl think that there is sth fundamentaly broken with projectiles when people start to fit them on all ships? or on generaly on hulls from races never intended to fit projectiles...??


Old problem with many Amarr ships :(.

Punisher
Maller
Navy Augoror
Legion with Drone offens system (works MUCH better then with Laser!!)

Some more with this anti-bonus "x% less cap use to fire your raceial weapons".

Abbadon is a bit speziel becouse of the insane Alpha from 1400 Artis.

It's realy time to remove this anti-bonus, add flat 25% better cap recharge to all this ships/hulls and give them a real BONUS!

Why the hell can't I fitt capital repairs or shield booster on an Orca ... it's an CAPITAL ship!

Nemesor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#663 - 2011-11-14 20:02:42 UTC
You need to at least give a reach around Tallest, what with the way you insist on Shagging us.

Seriously? That was your process? No one was happy with the results of your "Fixing Hybrids". Yet you are going to toss it out there like you have accomplished something.

You have not fixed a thing. Nothing is going to change.
Mapets
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#664 - 2011-11-14 20:12:44 UTC
from a tehnological point of view hybrid turets are a mix of projectile and energy weps, and as soposed to are using both ammunition and capacitor to fire - the problem with them is that they do to low dps at whatever range one tries to shoot at, considering the costs (ammo, cap, reload time, the nead to change ammo type)- the blasters witch are soposed to be meanest close range wep can atm do lower dps at say 10 km then both projectile and lazors, and that is becose of the range not becose of tracking...
Maby a good fix for tem would be indeed the boost to dmg but in the form of adding maby 20-25 % dmg to ammo charges in the form of em and posibily explosion dmg to (adding some logic behind the cap usage) and posibily a boost of 10%to range of the guns and not to tracking.
Ps.main is not gallente, i am caldary with all caldary, amarr and gallente subcapital ships at 5 with T2 guns ofc ,... trying to bring a constructive feedback from my experience :p
Nemesor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#665 - 2011-11-14 20:15:35 UTC
Mapets wrote:
Blah blah blah. Thats what our input sounds like to Tallest.


Why are you still talking? Nothing has changed with Hybrids. Nothing has changed with CCP.
Imrik86
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#666 - 2011-11-14 20:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Imrik86
Mekhana wrote:

Looking forward to Tallest's next update. Hang in there big guy! If you can pull this off, odds are you'll become the EVE equivalent of a deity and people will sing hymns in your name until the end of days.


QFT
Nemesor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#667 - 2011-11-14 20:22:42 UTC
Mekhana wrote:

Looking forward to Tallest's next update. Hang in there big guy! If you can pull this off, odds are you'll become the EVE equivalent of a deity and people will sing hymns in your name until the end of days.


What can he possibly "pull off". The feature list for the expansion is finalized. The final build is on SiSi. The best Tallest can do futher is say, "Hybrids will get looked at further in the Future". Yeah right. Same Old CCP. Same old BS.
Nikollai Tesla
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#668 - 2011-11-14 20:42:11 UTC
Where is the buff?
Kumq uat
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#669 - 2011-11-14 21:19:04 UTC
Total and complete failure on what was my most anticipated change. Sigh. CCP Tallest worst Tallest.
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#670 - 2011-11-14 21:25:36 UTC
I just died a little inside.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Nemesor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#671 - 2011-11-14 21:33:05 UTC
You should have never promised to fix hybrids. I was at least USED to them being worthless.

This time you guys raised my hopes and dashed their squishy infant heads on the rocks.

No feedback. No listening. Just a minor tweak.

Thanks for nothing Tallest. Thanks for nothing CCP.
Jean Louie
#672 - 2011-11-14 21:43:40 UTC
Ironically I received a SWTOR beta invite a day ago.
EMPRA
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#673 - 2011-11-14 21:51:36 UTC
Just as usual.

CCP won't fix hybrids because nobody plays with them anymore, hence the lack of negative response. Everyone either cross trained or avoided them all together and are living happily ever after in hurricane, abaddon and drake land.

Same goes for factional warfare.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#674 - 2011-11-14 21:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
Jean Louie wrote:
Ironically I received a SWTOR beta invite a day ago.


me too, played for 8 hours, got bored. it's WoW in space quite literally.

thats ok, off to Skyrim and BF3 till GW2 comes out. these graphical updates are just sugarcoating over a cake made of ****. this has been the truth about EVE for 3 years now. hope CCP enjoys a brief increase in subs until people realize (once again) what theyre dealing with. this will probably be the last time.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#675 - 2011-11-14 21:56:23 UTC
ok so looking at the new blasters all i have to say is 5% more dps is needed plus a big alpha boost 50% to keep dps the same slow down rate of fire...

now null needs to be boosted give it an optimal range bonus of 30% and a falloff bonus of 50%...

as for railguns... they still need more base tracking and better dps... i would suggest reduce cap activation cost and increase rate of fire... plus i would reduce optimal range and replace with falloff...

i saw what you did with the naga and like it but i would have prefered a rate of fire bonus with the optimal range bonus...

what this does is make is so gallente are better at blasters (high alpha due to damage bonus) and caldari dps from rails will be really high due to rate of fire bonus... this will keep racial flavour in the game...

plus spike needs a damage boost and void needs more damage...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Fraa Bjorn
Cell 317
#676 - 2011-11-14 22:13:08 UTC
Uhm.. What happened? We're promised reduction in CPU/PG/CAP (superuseful, makes me giddy) aswell as damage/tracking boost, and changes to T2 ammo...

Now all we're getting is 5% dps? ffs ccp.... It would be better if you just removed gallente from the game, so us fairly new players don't accidentally create gallentes, train accordingly, then realize we're useless and all that SP was just a scam, or if you will; tax on the stupid.

All games have QQ, but only Eve has Q.Q

Cunane Jeran
#677 - 2011-11-14 22:13:31 UTC
I don't see what more you guys could want, beyond a power creep.

Firstly lets ACTUALLY look at the important change.

Fitting Requirements and Cap usage. If you have actually bothered to go and try some new fits out, use your noggin a bit, you'll see that we can pull of some rather good fits now, which previously weren't possible, even at the low skilled level. Not only in PvE but also in PvP.

PvE: No longer a struggle to get a prop mod on ships like the Thorax and the Mega with Rails, or with Cap being just low enough that I can drop both a Cap Recharger II AND a Cap Rig or most of my fits (all of them I can drop 1 though, and no, I don't fly cap stable) that gives me an extra tracking computer or web and a hybrid damage rig. That right there alone is a huge gain in my ships hybrid performance.

Not much to say on PvE, generally its a case of "guns, cap and tank" fitting wise. But the other changes also influence PvE. Firstly the 5 second reload means we can use the highest damage ammo possible at whatever range we find ourselves at. Tracking and Damage boost? Lovely. Large rails already track fine. Using my Hyperion for example with a single TCII on it, I can hit frigs fine at 21km and crusiers at 12km with 425mm. These bonuses got it down to 17km and 10km in my case, with extra damage to boot. More than enough. The fitting requirements also now let you get a 100mn Afterburner on there. Problem solved entirely.

PvP Rails are now viable. Nano fit or Plated up, they do enough damage to warrant an airing, and with the Javelin change, they pack a good punch with decent tracking. Each fight I've had using them I've been impressed with their performance at both short AND long range. They get the job done, and generally you have enough grid now to fit a decent buffer with prop with the rails, further improving them in my eyes it'll take some getting use to, but I'm sure we'll be seeing more Rails appearing in PvP.

Blasters. The range is short, and compared to both Pulses and Auto's they are the weaker link. But they aren't bad once again they benefit from the fitting change. Dual Rep Brutix is a lot stronger, being able to finally fit a full rack of Ions without a problem. while ships such as the Deimos can finally sort themselves out with a decent buffer, something that they have been lacking for a long time. Extra speed is nice

But in all seriousness what can you do? Adding more damage is good for when you get into range, tracking is now fine, I've been able to fit frigs with medium Ions with a single web. But if you start pushing falloff, they are just becoming Auto's and pushing optimal is going to improve the Caldari hybrid boats a bit too much.

If I was going to hazard anything give them 1-2km optimal depending on size.

Or another option would be to drop the RoF right down, make them short range Arties.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#678 - 2011-11-14 22:22:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Julius Foederatus
No amount of tweaking damage and tracking will make up for the fundamental flaw of a close combat philosophy where your ship can never actually get in range. Guess what? Your new brutix with dual reppers and ions is still slow as **** and has crap range, not to mention the dps is far under a comparable AC ship because you can't use any MFS or your tank will be worthless. If the ships required to go into the optimal range of every nasty weapon and ewar known to the eve universe, just to deal damage, can't actually control range by themselves, then they're fail ships. Always.

And btw, even if you increase the speed so that Gallente ships are the fastest in a straight line, 5% more damage is not nearly enough to make up for getting pummeled the whole way there.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#679 - 2011-11-14 22:25:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
blasters are ******, fine. but rails can easily be fixed. i think with the best possible loadout, the Deimos hits for like 330 dps at 30km, which is pathetic. 200mm and 250mm rails still take up way too much PG.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#680 - 2011-11-14 22:26:14 UTC
Fraa Bjorn wrote:
Uhm.. What happened? We're promised reduction in CPU/PG/CAP (superuseful, makes me giddy) aswell as damage/tracking boost, and changes to T2 ammo...

Now all we're getting is 5% dps? ffs ccp.... It would be better if you just removed gallente from the game, so us fairly new players don't accidentally create gallentes, train accordingly, then realize we're useless and all that SP was just a scam, or if you will; tax on the stupid.



you sir are stupid... the changes are on top of the dev blog... ffs

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.