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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers - round two

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SerratedX
End-Game
#81 - 2013-07-29 13:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: SerratedX
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Couple of things: It requires THREE fitting implants, your 98k ehp assumes that it won't get alpha'd of the field with that **** poor 17k EHP, and I could fit up a Cynabal that would do the job better for probably the same cost or less.



W0lf is a well known troll on the FHC forums, its better just to ignore everything he says.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#82 - 2013-07-29 13:40:10 UTC
ATTN CERBERUS USERS

stop talking about things that aren't rapid lights, t i a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
progodlegend
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2013-07-29 13:42:10 UTC
Arrgthepirate wrote:
I'm really excited about the Eagle, Ishtar, and Vagabond. However, I feel that the kinetic damage bonus on the Cerebus is another relic of the past. Can't it just be a slightly reduced bonus to all missile damage?


Consider Caldari ships lucky that they atleast have the option to use different damage types if they so choose.

Lasers and Hybrids are stuck doing a certain damage type that is overall pretty easy to tank if you want to. It would be pretty unbalanced to have every missile ship be able to choose their own damage type.
Dave PSI
Haendlergilde
Gilde Alliance
#84 - 2013-07-29 13:44:15 UTC
The Eagle is still as bad as it is since the Armor buff for all ships years ago. Back in the days, it was possiblke to 1-2 volley frigs.

It simply needs a second damage bonus (like every other HAC) to be used again. Replace the "4% bonus to shield resistances" with it, since tank isn't that important for a sniper.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#85 - 2013-07-29 13:44:40 UTC
Jackie Fisher wrote:


Although heading in the right direction I feel the original Domi like 10% to all drone tracking and optimal and a separate 7.5% to drone speed would be more flexible and simpler without being OTT.


Domi is already OP, i dont see why the ishtar should improve on it.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#86 - 2013-07-29 13:47:07 UTC
SerratedX wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Couple of things: It requires THREE fitting implants, your 98k ehp assumes that it won't get alpha'd of the field with that **** poor 17k EHP, and I could fit up a Cynabal that would do the job better for probably the same cost or less.



W0lf is a well known troll on the FHC forums, its better just to ignore everything he says.


Im never troling in regards of ship fittings and balance issues, kiting at the moment sucks, everything got a lot faster and everything can now project damage very well, afs got buffed, abcs are incredible anti kiting platforms (as are all bs), medium guns now all reach 20+ k range. A vagabond gets easily outdps by a rail thorax a omen and even a stabber has pretty much the same dps.

It sucks as a pure kiter, it now will be a very good anti kiter and a good brawling ship in general but tis kiting abilitys still suck, a vaga should be able to push 300+ dps with turrets at 40km, no 150.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-07-29 13:47:27 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:

Yes, 17k ehp (more then a omen or a stabber) is totally going to get alphaed, if you dont like the implants, drop a low or a rigslot.

And no a cynabal can never match that, dont talk out of your ass.


Considering one shield boost cycle basically fills your entire shield, you have to let your shield run to 0 before you boost or you're just wasting boost and when you're at low shields, yes you are one nado hit+ a little bit more from being alpha'd.

The cynabal gets an extra mid, an extra rig and a whole lot more fitting. If you use that extra mid on a shield boost amp, which co-incidentally gives you almost the same bonus as the 7.5%/lvl, you can fit a similar ship. The cargo hold on the cynabal is the only annoyance.

[Cynabal, X:L ASB Dual Prop.]
Internal Force Field Array I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Dread Guristas Co-Processor

10MN Afterburner II
Gistum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II

Even gets the ability to kite.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#88 - 2013-07-29 13:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Maybe because missile velocity bonuses are even more beneficial to HAM fits than to HML fits?


Your not going to kite with hams in a sac, and without webs on your primary the dps is terrible.


M1k3y Koontz wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Also in case anyone cares, try flying a kiting ship when something like that is going to exist

http://i.imgur.com/omX9rre.png (no cap/sensor strenght changes yet; no it will have even better cap).

Thats 98k ehp after the booster is dry (4.25*9*2117 + 17754 = 98729.25).


Couple of things: It requires THREE fitting implants, your 98k ehp assumes that it won't get alpha'd of the field with that **** poor 17k EHP, and I could fit up a Cynabal that would do the job better for probably the same cost or less.


Yes, 17k ehp (more then a omen or a stabber) is totally going to get alphaed, if you dont like the implants, drop a low or a rigslot.

And no a cynabal can never match that, dont talk out of your ass.


The fact that the Vaga is square-peg-round-holed into a single fit that is tight beyond what most pilots can fit that has to run with 3 implants, drugs, and overheat everything just to get those numbers is pitiful.

Look at the other HACs, none of them have such tight fittings, none of them have to fly with so many implants, none of htem have to overheat all their mods and use boosters, hoping they don't get side effects, just to get a decent fit.

The Vaga needs a buff, and that "fit" isn't what the Vaga should be.

Edit: And you're boosting all of your shields in one boost, tell me again how that won't get alpha'd? Oh yea, it will get alpha'd, that or it will lose some of that mythical 98k EHP.



Lost the ASB bonus on the Vaga, give it another range bonus or tracking bonus, give it another mid. Then it won't suck.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#89 - 2013-07-29 13:48:21 UTC
SerratedX wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Couple of things: It requires THREE fitting implants, your 98k ehp assumes that it won't get alpha'd of the field with that **** poor 17k EHP, and I could fit up a Cynabal that would do the job better for probably the same cost or less.



W0lf is a well known troll on the FHC forums, its better just to ignore everything he says.



That's what I figured, thanks.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#90 - 2013-07-29 13:49:17 UTC
Akturous wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:

Yes, 17k ehp (more then a omen or a stabber) is totally going to get alphaed, if you dont like the implants, drop a low or a rigslot.

And no a cynabal can never match that, dont talk out of your ass.


Considering one shield boost cycle basically fills your entire shield, you have to let your shield run to 0 before you boost or you're just wasting boost and when you're at low shields, yes you are one nado hit+ a little bit more from being alpha'd.

The cynabal gets an extra mid, an extra rig and a whole lot more fitting. If you use that extra mid on a shield boost amp, which co-incidentally gives you almost the same bonus as the 7.5%/lvl, you can fit a similar ship. The cargo hold on the cynabal is the only annoyance.

[Cynabal, X:L ASB Dual Prop.]
Internal Force Field Array I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Dread Guristas Co-Processor

10MN Afterburner II
Gistum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II

Even gets the ability to kite.


t2 resists
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#91 - 2013-07-29 13:49:57 UTC
Akturous wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:

Yes, 17k ehp (more then a omen or a stabber) is totally going to get alphaed, if you dont like the implants, drop a low or a rigslot.

And no a cynabal can never match that, dont talk out of your ass.


Considering one shield boost cycle basically fills your entire shield, you have to let your shield run to 0 before you boost or you're just wasting boost and when you're at low shields, yes you are one nado hit+ a little bit more from being alpha'd.

The cynabal gets an extra mid, an extra rig and a whole lot more fitting. If you use that extra mid on a shield boost amp, which co-incidentally gives you almost the same bonus as the 7.5%/lvl, you can fit a similar ship. The cargo hold on the cynabal is the only annoyance.

[Cynabal, X:L ASB Dual Prop.]
Internal Force Field Array I
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Dread Guristas Co-Processor

10MN Afterburner II
Gistum C-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II

Even gets the ability to kite.


That costs a ton more then the vaga, tanks 1 third, and has a huge sig. Vaga is miles ahead.
Gyttfryd
Bundesamt fuer Raumflug
#92 - 2013-07-29 13:50:55 UTC
The cap bonus on the Sacrilege was one of its core components allowing it to tank well (which is basically the only thing it does right atm) and now you're removing that bonus and give it a range bonus which *may* allow it to kite (regarding the low base speed and the armor tank this is highly questionable) HMLs only reduce the sacs already rerrible dps even further. And the added drones wont support your "kiting" either. Make it the brawler it should be with high resistances and the necessary cap to run a dual rep. If you want to tweak sth then start at it's dps, it's pretty terrible and adding some drones will help a small bit but won't encourage the unique amarr missile boat (needs MOAR missiles ;)
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-07-29 13:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Akturous
Michael Harari wrote:

T2 resists

Not as valuable as pwn agility and top sized guns, but yes there's that.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2013-07-29 13:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Akturous
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


That costs a ton more then the vaga, tanks 1 third, and has a huge sig. Vaga is miles ahead.


Tanks 1/3, yes maths, it's a difficult thing. It actually tanks 80% as much as the Vaga.

You are a flat out mong. See further and you'll see that perhaps it's me who was dropped as a baby.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2013-07-29 13:53:22 UTC
Wow CCP you just absolutely MURDERED the Sacrilege. All active setups are absolutely useless now.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#96 - 2013-07-29 13:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Maybe because missile velocity bonuses are even more beneficial to HAM fits than to HML fits?


Your not going to kite with hams in a sac, and without webs on your primary the dps is terrible.


M1k3y Koontz wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Also in case anyone cares, try flying a kiting ship when something like that is going to exist

http://i.imgur.com/omX9rre.png (no cap/sensor strenght changes yet; no it will have even better cap).

Thats 98k ehp after the booster is dry (4.25*9*2117 + 17754 = 98729.25).


Couple of things: It requires THREE fitting implants, your 98k ehp assumes that it won't get alpha'd of the field with that **** poor 17k EHP, and I could fit up a Cynabal that would do the job better for probably the same cost or less.


Yes, 17k ehp (more then a omen or a stabber) is totally going to get alphaed, if you dont like the implants, drop a low or a rigslot.

And no a cynabal can never match that, dont talk out of your ass.


The fact that the Vaga is square-peg-round-holed into a single fit that is tight beyond what most pilots can fit that has to run with 3 implants, drugs, and overheat everything just to get those numbers is pitiful.

Look at the other HACs, none of them have such tight fittings, none of them have to fly with so many implants, none of htem have to overheat all their mods and use boosters, hoping they don't get side effects, just to get a decent fit.

The Vaga needs a buff, and that "fit" isn't what the Vaga should be.


As if fitting matters, it fits (and you can easily get it to fit without implants) and it counts, you always heat your invul and you always heat the asb (if you dont you are bad), and those were the only heated modules on the ship (you see that they both work for over 2 minutes permaheating).

The maulus of the bluepill is neglectable, shield doesnt matter much as it isnt a buffer fit nor does optimal, beeing faloff based (nor does cap tbh, the nos is enough to keep tacke/invul running).


That isnt what the vaga should be, but its going to be.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#97 - 2013-07-29 13:54:32 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
Akturous wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


That costs a ton more then the vaga, tanks 1 third, and has a huge sig. Vaga is miles ahead.


Tanks 1/3, yes maths, it's a difficult thing. It actually tanks 80% as much as the Vaga.

You are a flat out mong.


Cyna tank 724 with heat, vaga 2.1k. Also, vaga tracks way better and it has more real dps (cyna only does a bit more if it uses medium drones)
gawrshmapooo
J33 Monocombine
#98 - 2013-07-29 13:57:46 UTC
Gyttfryd wrote:
The cap bonus on the Sacrilege was one of its core components allowing it to tank well (which is basically the only thing it does right atm) and now you're removing that bonus and give it a range bonus which *may* allow it to kite (regarding the low base speed and the armor tank this is highly questionable) HMLs only reduce the sacs already terrible dps even further. And the added drones wont support your "kiting" either. Make it the brawler it should be with high resistances and the necessary cap to run a dual rep. If you want to tweak sth then start at it's dps, it's pretty terrible and adding some drones will help a small bit but won't encourage the unique amarr missile boat (needs MOAR missiles ;)


Gonna quote that.

I sell combat boosters of every strength and type. Message me to get your edge.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2013-07-29 13:58:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Akturous
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Akturous wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


That costs a ton more then the vaga, tanks 1 third, and has a huge sig. Vaga is miles ahead.


Tanks 1/3, yes maths, it's a difficult thing. It actually tanks 80% as much as the Vaga.

You are a flat out mong.


Cyna tank 724 with heat, vaga 2.1k.


How did you even get into Tuskers, Suli must think you suck some good phallus mate.

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/demo/20130729-nmw3-305kb

Edit, I'm actually the mong and forgot about the new bonus, so ignore that. It still doesn't tank 2k, it's ~1680 with the fit and bonuses I have there, so a little over double. It's not as bad as I thought.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2013-07-29 13:59:26 UTC
Gyttfryd wrote:
The cap bonus on the Sacrilege was one of its core components allowing it to tank well (which is basically the only thing it does right atm) and now you're removing that bonus and give it a range bonus which *may* allow it to kite (regarding the low base speed and the armor tank this is highly questionable) HMLs only reduce the sacs already rerrible dps even further. And the added drones wont support your "kiting" either. Make it the brawler it should be with high resistances and the necessary cap to run a dual rep. If you want to tweak sth then start at it's dps, it's pretty terrible and adding some drones will help a small bit but won't encourage the unique amarr missile boat (needs MOAR missiles ;)


He edited back in the cap bonus.

So now you get both the 5%/lvl integrated into the hull, as well as the extra cap from the whole HAC cap buff, making your cap fantastic.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8