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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers - round two

First post First post First post
Author
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2013-07-29 13:59:34 UTC
Now that you've killed all active tank dual rep Sacrileges, can you add another low? 3 lows for armor tank is rather pathetic with 2 BCU.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#102 - 2013-07-29 14:02:52 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
Akturous wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Akturous wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


That costs a ton more then the vaga, tanks 1 third, and has a huge sig. Vaga is miles ahead.


Tanks 1/3, yes maths, it's a difficult thing. It actually tanks 80% as much as the Vaga.

You are a flat out mong.


Cyna tank 724 with heat, vaga 2.1k.


How did you even get into Tuskers, Suli must think you suck some good phallus mate.

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/demo/20130729-nmw3-305kb




http://imgur.com/omX9rre


(if you werent in sc id call you bad names now)



(edit, and no dualprop is not the wa yto go, but its a valid option)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2013-07-29 14:05:51 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The cerberus.. I still fear might become too powerful with speed. but the metagame might not let that happen.. we must wait and see on this case

"Cerberus" and "too powerful" in the same sentence. That's a first.

Anyway, THANK YOU SO MUCH for the CPU on the Ishtar, CCP Rise!



Speed and missiles combined have ALWAYS resulted in "TOO POWERFUL". Need to be careful when combining those.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#104 - 2013-07-29 14:06:09 UTC
Much better, but there's a typo in the OP- Ishtar has one slot less than the others.

.

Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2013-07-29 14:07:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Akturous
W0lf Crendraven wrote:



(if you werent in sc id call you bad names now)



(edit, and no dualprop is not the wa yto go, but its a valid option)


Yeah I edited my post to state that I am infact the mong as I forgot about the 7.5%/lvl.

You need dual prop or anything with a web will really make you pay.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8

W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#106 - 2013-07-29 14:12:47 UTC
You need dualprop to sigtank some and to kill frigates that have you scrammed, both can be dont in other ways.
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#107 - 2013-07-29 14:16:43 UTC
Well not a roll bonus hand picked thoughtfuly for each ship as i had hoped but whatevs

I will say a few things tho:

1: I think they could use alittle more HP across the board, not way above their T1 but just a tad, and especialy dont go in reverse on the poor DIEmost!

2: Give the Vaga more fitting pllllllllllleeeeeeaassseeee, either more PG so it can fit bigger guns, or more CPU since it is now suposed to fit a shield boster some of the time.

3: lower their sig another 10 across the board, 150 on the diemos is still HUGE!

The cerb looks great, hell i think it may jut be the new Vaga if the vaga dosent get more grid.

The Sac looks interesting i will definatly try it out as a duleprop HAM kiter or can anyone say Podla Sac's?

Oh and I still have no idea if you want the Eagle to be a brawler with those 6 mids and shield resists, or a sniper with the doble range bonus, please pick one, its such a confused ship.

Muninn needs another mid, 3 mids just makes it out as a terible zealot.

That is all, better but i still wish they where cheeper, they arnt BSs where peopel might pay a allot more for them, they are cruisers and people arnt likely going to pay 170mil unless 0.0 doctorens say to.
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-07-29 14:17:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsubutai
To be honest, the vagabond looks like a very lackluster kiter in the face of the new cerberus and rail deimos, which both have vastly superior projection without giving up much in the way of mobility when fit appropriately. It really needs a substantial increase in PG in order to be able to fit 425s and a proper tank if it's supposed to be a capable solo/small-gang ship. XLASB brawling setups are a lot less effective now that their novelty has passed, and they can't stand up to more conventional brawlers in a point blank slugfest, so they're kind of reduced to gimmicky ships for running down things like lone Tier 3s and faction cruisers, which seems like a disappointingly niche role.


edit: actually, on second thought, I hadn't factored in the effect of the improved capacitor. That makes it viable to run an invuln in place of an LSE, which significantly improves the ship and makes it possible to fit 425s. Its projection still seems rather poor, but it's not as bad as I initially thought.
M1k3y Koontz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2013-07-29 14:17:32 UTC
Vaga definitely needs more shield HP to XLASB effectively (Rise, if you expect us to LASB, I will lose the last of my respect for you, LASBs suck) otherwise the Vaga will get alpha'd since its shield boost is the same as its shield HP, meaning the Vaga pilot has to wait until he has NO SHIELDS to boost, or lose tank.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Kururugi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#110 - 2013-07-29 14:18:21 UTC
Are you trying to phase out regular Armor Repairers for pvp just like how you did with regular Shield Boosters by replacing them with the ancill kit? Sorry if that sounds a bit accusatory, just something that came in my mind.
Lord Eremet
The Seatbelts
#111 - 2013-07-29 14:19:50 UTC
What no five light drones for the Eagle? It would make the ship a lot more flexible and interesting.


As for the rest of the shipchanges: You added a lot of cpu to the Ishtar. Will be interesting to see how people will fit it.

The rest of them I have to digest slowly first. except one: I didn't think you would back down about the new (useless) shieldboost boni on the vagabond.

Cynabal prices likely skyrocketed another 30% as of today.
Chessur
Fweddit
Free Range Chikuns
#112 - 2013-07-29 14:21:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Chessur
I am very, very shocked by the complete disregard to any of the advice given to you on the forums.

Sac: Again, 50% MWD bonus is a waste (you even admit this yourself)
- No damage application bonus. HAM / HML Is useless unless you have hard tackle on a target
- Speed: Still one of the slowest cruisers out there.
- Missile velocity bonus: Again CCP, why do you need increased velocity if they only thing this ship can do is brawl? Really another poor, and barckward choice.
- Needs another low slot.

Zealot:
- No change in its pathetic cap
- Still slow as hell, completely eclipsed by the Nomen
- MWD sig bonus is wasted here again, because most zealots used in fleet are AB

Deimos:
- Its faster which is good, its going to be a nice rail sniper (provided it can mitigate tracking with its speed)

Ishtar:
- Drones suck for PvP so I really have no comment
- Still Slow as hell

Vagabond:
- I am easily the most shocked with this change.
- The fastest cruiser by far
- Still retains the OP shield boost bonus

The reality of the vagabond is that this hull alone will completely shut down solo / small gang vs blob play. Vagas are so fast that it will be difficult to out pace them. They have an amazing tank (when properly fit). Don't even get me started on the application of snakes / crystals / links. A vaga will be able to easily kill just about anything it comes across. It can kite, and easily tank any damage coming from 20+ out, or against T1 cruisers / other HAC's / Pirate / Navy cruisers can simply F1 approach and face **** them.

The vaga is still poor for kiting, because it still only has a 10% falloff range, and is unable to really project damage. The vaga is now easily the king of all the cruisers bar non. Very horrible reasoning / change to the hull.

Muninn:

Again you did nothing to really help / change the muninn along.
- Speed: Still way to slow in the current meta
-Bonuses still lacking for projectile ships

Cerberus: I am amazed at how delusional you are, thinking that the cerbs speed is some how going to allow it to kite.
- Still doesn't have a damage application bonus for HAM / HML With out that, cerb needs to get into hard tackle range, or be forced to fly with a bonused TP ship
- Still doesn't have the low slots it needs to effectively nano
- Missile 'sniping' is a complete waste. If you have not noticed, Tier 3 BC's hvae got that role down pat. Stop trying to force the cerb into an outdated, and horrible playstyle.

Eagle: Wow. The one ship that needed the most help, and you have done nothing.
-Speed: 180 are you kidding me? Still way to slow
- Only 4 Lows, really really lacking for a rail boat
- again the eagle has no useful role. Its eclipsed in the sniping world, and in the brawling world will easily get outplayed by ships that are faster, and hit harder.

I again would like to re-iterate how shocking the complete, and willful disregard to eve-o suggestions is to me. This will be my last post on the subject, because clearly trying to have a rational conversation about these ships, gets thrown to the wayside.

You still don't have a good idea for HACs. So instead of trying to come up with something new, you are going to be placing them in the same place they were before:

Horrible brawlers, that have less EHP / DPS than BS / BC / Command ships, or horrible snipers that are completely eclipsed by Tier 3 BC's.

Start training for your vagas boys.
Balthazar Lestrane
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#113 - 2013-07-29 14:22:17 UTC
+1, massive improvements to the Ishtar and Sacrilege, the minor buffs to the others are cool but dayum, that Ishtar is looking mighty fine. ETA on 1.1?
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#114 - 2013-07-29 14:23:46 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Vaga definitely needs more shield HP to XLASB effectively (Rise, if you expect us to LASB, I will lose the last of my respect for you, LASBs suck) otherwise the Vaga will get alpha'd since its shield boost is the same as its shield HP, meaning the Vaga pilot has to wait until he has NO SHIELDS to boost, or lose tank.


I first assumed that same since you boost 1780 out of 2180 per asb cyle, but thats still1.4k ehp (doesnt sound like a lot but thats about as much as a standard (nonarty) medium sized gun hits you for per volley) and you can bleed armour/structure for quite a bit, you just cant wait and you need to boost immeditaly once you get below 14%.
Xolve
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#115 - 2013-07-29 14:23:49 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Still worried on the shield boost bonus on a ship with only 4 mids. It bee lines the ship on a basic single fit.


Let's pretend outside of the gimmick ASB Vagabond that the standard mid-layout on Vagabonds hasn't been LSE/LSE/MWD/Point and then your argument might hold some water.

Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
SCRUBS.
#116 - 2013-07-29 14:25:06 UTC
Noun
bonus (plural bonuses)

Something extra that is good.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

M1k3y Koontz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2013-07-29 14:28:56 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Vaga definitely needs more shield HP to XLASB effectively (Rise, if you expect us to LASB, I will lose the last of my respect for you, LASBs suck) otherwise the Vaga will get alpha'd since its shield boost is the same as its shield HP, meaning the Vaga pilot has to wait until he has NO SHIELDS to boost, or lose tank.


I first assumed that same since you boost 1780 out of 2180 per asb cyle, but thats still1.4k ehp (doesnt sound like a lot but thats about as much as a standard (nonarty) medium sized gun hits you for per volley) and you can bleed armour/structure for quite a bit, you just cant wait and you need to boost immeditaly once you get below 14%.


Yes because a Vaga will definitely be flying against a single ship Roll
14%, thats a ridiculously small margin of error, and when fighting a gang of 5-10 players that 14% evaporates in less than a second. I know that from experience, so don't try to make up some nonsense.

The Vaga will get alpha'd or lose tank because it boosts too early. Give it more HP, another mid, and scrap the ASB bonus.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2013-07-29 14:30:57 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Akturous wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Akturous wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


That costs a ton more then the vaga, tanks 1 third, and has a huge sig. Vaga is miles ahead.


Tanks 1/3, yes maths, it's a difficult thing. It actually tanks 80% as much as the Vaga.

You are a flat out mong.


Cyna tank 724 with heat, vaga 2.1k.


How did you even get into Tuskers, Suli must think you suck some good phallus mate.

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/demo/20130729-nmw3-305kb




http://imgur.com/omX9rre


(if you werent in sc id call you bad names now)



(edit, and no dualprop is not the wa yto go, but its a valid option)


WTF you guys doing? Cynabals use 100 MN AB!!!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

GeneralNukeEm
Perkone
Caldari State
#119 - 2013-07-29 14:32:46 UTC
Quote:
We did look closely at the MWD cap use bonus and in the end decided that there wasn't any replacement compelling enough to warrant a change.

How is 7.5% tracking per level for medium hybrid turrets not a compelling replacement for MWD cap use?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2013-07-29 14:33:02 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Still worried on the shield boost bonus on a ship with only 4 mids. It bee lines the ship on a basic single fit.


Let's pretend outside of the gimmick ASB Vagabond that the standard mid-layout on Vagabonds hasn't been LSE/LSE/MWD/Point and then your argument might hold some water.




Sisue is.. before . that fit was used because there was ntohign better to do. Now.. it will become almost mandatory and ASB are much more complicated to fit (the X L one that peopel will try to squeeze anyway).

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"