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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers - round two

First post First post First post
Author
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#2621 - 2013-09-07 23:30:47 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:

eft wizard right there


EFT seems to be beyond some crybabies...



so does sarcasm

No sig.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#2622 - 2013-09-08 11:19:31 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
EDIT: here's an example of a ~500dps artillery kiting vaga:..

Looks good, but cost efficiency is pretty much non-existent .. you are looking at a 300-400M undock cost for a fit that is not even that good, doesn't take much movement on you targets part to make artillery fall flat Big smile
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
EDIT: Just for lols, I knocked up this anti-amarr brawling vagabond:..

Would be perfect in the old days, but now that tiericide is almost over you have several Amarr hulls that work even better than before when going off-race for weapons, especially when taking relative laser performance into account. Provided of course that Amarr hulls will even be common use.

Blasters/Gallente are the new black and that is a gaping hole if ever I saw one ... wasting time coming up with fits to combat a races ships/fits that will not be used to any large extent is kind of pointless.

PS: Moderators frown at forum rule transgressions (special characters to avoid filter). If your statements require the use of filtered words then either rethink the statement or accept the censorship .. there are anally retentive individuals everywhere around here and its a silly demerit to get.
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
#2623 - 2013-09-08 11:39:36 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
EDIT: here's an example of a ~500dps artillery kiting vaga:..

Looks good, but cost efficiency is pretty much non-existent .. you are looking at a 300-400M undock cost for a fit that is not even that good, doesn't take much movement on you targets part to make artillery fall flat Big smile
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
EDIT: Just for lols, I knocked up this anti-amarr brawling vagabond:..

Would be perfect in the old days, but now that tiericide is almost over you have several Amarr hulls that work even better than before when going off-race for weapons, especially when taking relative laser performance into account. Provided of course that Amarr hulls will even be common use.

Blasters/Gallente are the new black and that is a gaping hole if ever I saw one ... wasting time coming up with fits to combat a races ships/fits that will not be used to any large extent is kind of pointless.

PS: Moderators frown at forum rule transgressions (special characters to avoid filter). If your statements require the use of filtered words then either rethink the statement or accept the censorship .. there are anally retentive individuals everywhere around here and its a silly demerit to get.


Sure, that particular one has a price tag. There's no reason to fit a faction warp disruptor unless you want point range superiority. Tech 2 rigs are of course a luxury that I afford myself on T2 hulls, but there are ways to fit the ship if you want to spend less. A couple of implants would remove the requirement of the T2 rigs in this particular case. Players may consider implants to be a wiser investment that hull modules, at least in lowsec.

I'm not saying that the kiting fit I proposed is awesome. I did it in response to a claim that it was not possible. The original poster was complaining that a vaga was "no longer any good at kiting". That claim was later clarified on grounds of weapons range when autcannons were fitted, so I responded with artillery. It was then claimed that the vaga could not fit artillery... hence the fit on which you comment.

I guess I'm just tired of hearing unfounded whining about how the vagabond has been in some way nerfed when all of its stats bar one (max speed dropped by 3 m/s) went up.

The armour vaga was, as you quoted, for lols. But it did occur to me that it would make an epic tackler in an armour fleet, combining good resistances with astonishing speed. One could always swap the MAR for some plate and it would still most likely be the fastest ship on grid.

Not the designed use case, I know...

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Devon Weeks
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2624 - 2013-09-08 12:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Devon Weeks
Quote:
I guess I'm just tired of hearing unfounded whining about how the vagabond has been in some way nerfed when all of its stats bar one (max speed dropped by 3 m/s) went up.


This. Nothing else really needs to be said. You don't take a ship that improved in every way save one where it essentially remained the same and say it is now useless where it wasn't before. It's ludicrous. Claiming that Vaga is nerfed by virtue of other ships being buffed is also laughable. It is the argument of someone lamenting the loss of the days when they didn't have to think about what they would engage. Vaga pilots do now, just like everyone else always has. Welcome to the real Eve.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2625 - 2013-09-10 08:48:01 UTC
Well at this stage I think it's time for everyone to shut up about theory-crafting, and actually use the ships for a while. Let the killboards do the talking.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Connall Tara
Conquering Darkness
#2626 - 2013-09-10 11:39:17 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Well at this stage I think it's time for everyone to shut up about theory-crafting, and actually use the ships for a while. Let the killboards do the talking.


NEVAR! our idle speculation and prejudiced whining is far superior to mere facts! :P

Naomi Knight - "You must be CCP Rise alt , that would explain everything"

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#2627 - 2013-09-10 12:40:08 UTC
Just so we are on the same page.
Malcanis wrote:
Well at this stage I think it's time for everyone to shut up about theory-crafting, and actually use the ships for a while. Let the killboards do the talking.

"At this stage" = Now that changes have gone live after most complaints and worries had been flat out ignored during the supposed feed-back/testing period and what was launched was what the generic Blaster-phile have been soiling his jammies over since CCP hired multiple Gallente lovers.
"Theory-crafting" = Supporting or putting forth any point of view that conflicts with design goal regardless of validity or testing data.

As for killboards doing the talking .. what does it matter when the powers that be are hard of hearing?
Relevant fact: Winmatar fad lasted 2+ years, that was with 60-75% of all ships (ie. total, including all areas) used being of the projectile variety week in and week out consistently for the entire duration.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that having ships that are capable of tanking pretty much anything one can throw at it while at the same time having versatility and top-tier damage potential will be bad for balance.

NanoAge was pretty bad, Winmatar fad was God Awful but Gallente spam will be good?
Albert Einstein wrote:
Insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Balance. Equal opportunity. That should be the aim, not some cyclical dominance thing where more than half of everything gets to gather dust for years on end.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#2628 - 2013-09-10 13:10:12 UTC
I still don't understand why the deimos has far better cap recharge compared to the zealot...
HazeInADaze
Safari Hunt Club
Sanctus Cor
#2629 - 2013-09-10 14:52:49 UTC
People still itch about the Vaga's rep bonus while the FOTM is kite Nomen with ARR and almost no buffer. Stop EFTing and start undocking.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#2630 - 2013-09-10 21:25:43 UTC
HazeInADaze wrote:
People still itch about the Vaga's rep bonus while the FOTM is kite Nomen with ARR and almost no buffer. Stop EFTing and start undocking.

Well, they would, but some people aren't fond of the taste of crow. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2631 - 2013-09-11 09:49:17 UTC
Unpinning, 1.1 has been released.
General Jack Cosmo
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2632 - 2013-10-29 13:59:27 UTC
I would really like to see a few changes in hac

1- it would be nice to give each one a utility high slot (salvager, imp cloak, tractor beem ect)
it would be nice to a have a utility high slot for my ishtar for my lvl 4 missions i do with it :)

2- sacrilege give a rof/dmg of 5 % to ham's only and 10% velocity to ham's only since it was geared towards ham's and tank!

3- give the vaga tracking bonus or shield resistance bonus instead of shield boosts (not every one uses boosts on a hac)

4- maybe change one of the 10% optimal range on the eagle to either 5% optimal/5% tracking
or 10% to range on one or both of those so you can use rails or blasters?

5- cerbus what about 7.5% to kinetic and 5% to other dmg types?

also maybe a bonus to not just sig radius but effectiveness of micro warp drives!!!!

With lord Xanex by my side I can do anything (Atleast with a smile) !!!!

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#2633 - 2013-10-29 14:34:34 UTC
General Jack Cosmo wrote:
I would really like to see a few changes in hac

1- it would be nice to give each one a utility high slot (salvager, imp cloak, tractor beem ect)
it would be nice to a have a utility high slot for my ishtar for my lvl 4 missions i do with it :)

2- sacrilege give a rof/dmg of 5 % to ham's only and 10% velocity to ham's only since it was geared towards ham's and tank!

3- give the vaga tracking bonus or shield resistance bonus instead of shield boosts (not every one uses boosts on a hac)

4- maybe change one of the 10% optimal range on the eagle to either 5% optimal/5% tracking
or 10% to range on one or both of those so you can use rails or blasters?

5- cerbus what about 7.5% to kinetic and 5% to other dmg types?

also maybe a bonus to not just sig radius but effectiveness of micro warp drives!!!!


I would rather have the Sacrilege get the same bonus for damage and range for the rapid light missile launcher like the Cerberus did.

Seems that Rapid Light Missile Launchers are only a cruiser sized launcher that works for matar and Caldari which is sad for the Sacrilege.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2634 - 2013-10-30 13:42:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Well at this stage I think it's time for everyone to shut up about theory-crafting, and actually use the ships for a while. Let the killboards do the talking.


I think you should shut up.
Denson022
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2635 - 2013-12-12 07:04:36 UTC
Is it intended for let's say the Deimos to be able to tank 6 cruiser gang (including HAC) while neuted, or
a BS a BC and another HAC, kill em all and go out. In the last example we are talking about ~900-1000 applied DPS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d-4SJALYGI

Nice video - but what suprised me is that even neuted it can tank about 350-400 DPS.. And whats more interesting is that it tanks more than the vaga can while both have 7.5% bonus. I think the Vaga really needs a 5 th slot.

I understand the buff to cap recharge but then why Command ships don't have a better cap recharge than the one of the HAC?

Bigger ship, also Tech 2, more cap pool and more cap recharge than the ship class below.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#2636 - 2013-12-12 07:08:10 UTC
Denson022 wrote:
Is it intended for let's say the Deimos to be able to tank 6 cruiser gang (including HAC) while neuted, or
a BS a BC and another HAC, kill em all and go out. In the last example we are talking about ~900-1000 applied DPS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d-4SJALYGI

Nice video - but what suprised me is that even neuted it can tank about 350-400 DPS.. And whats more interesting is that it tanks more than the vaga can while both have 7.5% bonus. I think the Vaga really needs a 5 th slot.

I understand the buff to cap recharge but then why Command ships don't have a better cap recharge than the one of the HAC?

Bigger ship, also Tech 2, more cap pool and more cap recharge than the ship class below.



Thats just active tank for you.

Look at what a maelstrom can do.



Also Command ships are plenty powerful without retardcap.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#2637 - 2013-12-16 22:16:16 UTC  |  Edited by: elitatwo
The Zealot still needs a bigger cargo bay.

I suggest 400m³ wont break EVE and would be in line with the rest of the bunch. I also believe that a tiny dronebay of 25m³ wouldn't hurt the game either.

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This is the law of ship progression!

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#2638 - 2013-12-16 23:45:24 UTC
and the vagabond should be slower than the stabber .... the eagle should be quicker also with drones..
and HAC's should lose a slot too be consistent with other classes... but CCP don't do consistency all that well.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#2639 - 2013-12-17 03:23:50 UTC  |  Edited by: elitatwo
ooops

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