Ships & Modules

something has to come in last

I think, once again, that the Omen is more of a kitey ship, while the Phantasm, with a larger tank naturally, is able to brawl more effectively. The web on the Omen provides a bit more should a frigate get close, but other than that serves little in the way of a purpose.

fun, this is pretty much the same thing that happened to rifter

Need more help than that imo..

My suggestion:
Cap recharge time * 0.85
Cap Capacity* 1.15 (combined effect, 35% higher cap/sec recharge
Shield recharge time *0.85
Speed + 25m/s

Drone capacity and bandwidth+10
PG + 10%



Alternately... for the *entire* sansha lineup:
Change the 100% laser bonus to 150% (so that lasers do 2.5 damage)
Then remove the 5% per level of caldari ship damage bonus (so that damage is unchanged at lvl 5)
In its place, add a 5% shield resist bonus per level of caldari ship (frigate/cruiser/battleship)


It never made sense to me why the caldari ship skill increased laser damage... you'd think that would come from the amarr ship skill

In the end, you end up with 3 effective bonuses, like all the other pirate ships.
Role bonus for increased damage (instead of simply turning 4 turrets into 8, the most common number of turrets for turret BSs)
Amarr skill for laser tracking
Caldari skill for better shields.

They'd then be some pretty good brawlers

Ah yes, this dates back to 2009, and you're looking at the one responsible for that (along with the Dramiel, Cynabal and Machariel uberness)

Considering I was the one breaking this ship in the first place, the least I can do is to post here what we think of pirate ships at the moment.

• Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.


• Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.


• Guristas: Rattlesnake and Gila we are happy with, not so much with the Worm.


• Serpentis: we are quite pleased with all the ships in this line.


• Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


So, when would this be coming out? Not for a while, we have a lot of more urgent rebalancing to go through, mainly with Tech1 and 2 hulls, but this definately is on our to-do list.

It would be interesting with a ship specific bonus such as
"Energy Vampires will drain capacitor regardless of local and target capacitor percentage"

I think that would fit perfectly for the Ashimmu.

Nightmare sucks, except that it has enough powergrid for tachyons. On all these ships, the utility highslots are completely wasted on beam setups. Move them to mids and lows. Also these ships suck at tanking and need more cap than nearly any other ship (lasers + shield tanking). It sucks that cap booster is mandatory, it shouldn't be - for any ship.

Also, phantasm used to be much prettier. Go find the old skin, the current one is real dull by comparison.



Too much agility, too many effective turrets. They shouldn't be so good at straight up combat as well as running away and dictating range. Reduce damage bonuses or dronebays. What's up with that scan res as well?

RE, Machariel:

As a dual training is required for this ship it takes twice as long to perfect the bonuses for these ships. I dont think they are in need of a nerf so much as split the bonuses to each faction, IE, set turret bonuses for Minmitar, and Tank or capacitor bonuses for Gallente (or Vice Versa). In order to fly the ships effectively you would need both factions trained to 5 (Similar to the Scimitar/Basi).

With an investment of 100 days for spaceship command alone, an additional 200 days to get the guns right, 120 days for the drones, then add the core tank and core capacitor skills for another 235 days. It takes almost 2 years of focused training to fly this ship to it's full potential.

Of course there are always a few people that fly ships they have no buisness in, with skills always trained to the minimum then whine about subpar performance.

First, I think it needs to be said that medium pulse is not long range enough when compared to blasters and (especially) autocannons. A large part of the problem is that I naturally expect pulse lasers to be able to attack throughout a typical engagement range. FMP was conceived with a "natural" range of 20km and Heavy Pulse with a "natural" range of about 24km. Since that time, we've seen T2 points and overheat and the proliferation of skirmish links.

In a fairly typical small gang we can see engagement ranges stretch out to somewhere between 30km (overheated T2 point) and 45km (overheated T2 point, loki links). This makes "kiting" in a laser ship a dubious affair IMO. More importantly, it also removes the ability for lasers on the more painfully slow hulls to fight off kiting ships. If we were just talking about the longer ranged projectile ships like the Vagabond or optimal bonused ships like the Zealot I don't think this would matter as much as it does. However, we're facing the situation where blaster ships trivially outrange T2 point range - and medium pulse range.

That is to say that conceptually I'd say lasers should both be the best kiting weapon (when mounted on an appropriate hull) and the best anti kiting weapon (when not). They should have fairly high DPS (which they do), be fairly weak up close (which they are), and restricted in damage type (which they are).

All of that said, I think the ship could be basically ok with 4 turrets (5 highs) and the equivalent of a LCB II stuffed into its pathetic capacitor. You might also want to nudge up the speed and agility on the ship because you only have 3 lows to stuff the requisite 2 HS, 2 TE, 2 Nano, DC into.

An optimal bonus would also help emphasize the kiting role over a brawling role - because let's just be honest: a brawling laser ship with like 10 capacitor in a land where every ship in the game has a "utility/anti-frig neut" fit is just ******* stupid.

I'll post some thoughts on the Ashimmu shortly (read: perhaps today), but I've got to head to work soon. I will leave this as something to chew on:
- Neuts + Lasers is simply lolwutcapacitor, even before we stop to consider the laughable capacitor it has. Again, LCB II or two builtin would be a good idea (yes, without adjusting the recharge rate).
- The Ashimmu doesn't have the resist profile or EHP that's necessary to be useful as a raw neut ship. The Bhaalgorn has EHP and the Legion has EHP + Resists + Same Neut Power.
- The DPS is utterly anemic, even when compared to the recons.
- This leaves the web bonus as the only viable bonus on the ship.

My suggestion:
- Turn the role bonus into a resist bonus
- Move a high to a mid (MWD, Cap Booster, Disruptor, 2x Web)
- 5 unbonused turret slots (let them focus on that web bonus if they want, or let them sacrifice DPS for neuting power)
- Slightly increase the neut bonus to account for moved high (otherwise it's still inferior to the Legion)
- Build in a LCB or two
- Fill out the drone bay with 25 bw/50 bay

Other options include:
- Almost Cap free neuts (yes, really)
- Role fitting bonus for heavy neuts (increase neut range)
- Refocusing the ship away from lasers wholesale

Anyway, gotta run. o/

-Liang

Ed: Yes, I am aware how much of the projection problem is related to TEs and BS sized weapons.