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What does the Phantasm even do?

First post
Author
Valleria Darkmoon
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#21 - 2013-02-11 09:35:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
The one thing the Phantasm does have going for it is phenomenal fittings as the posted fit shows, you can practically just throw on whatever you think you want and just keep at it until the slots are full then notice you have empty rigs and you don't even need one for fitting. The cap issue is very strenuous, even injected it feels as if it's addicted to cap boosters and committed to the idea of overdosing at that.

In reality though both the Phantasm and the Ashimmu fall into the same category but for different reasons. Both look amazing and I like seeing them in space just so I can spin them around, but neither one really works as well as something else you could fly instead for a similar price tag.

Zealot > Phantasm
Curse > Ashimuu

The only thing I might be able to see is a Phantasm that can engage a small frigate gang alone and kill them all, abundance of mids and CPU can get you a web(s) easily and your tracking bonus can take care of the rest, not sure where I'm really going with this and not ultimately sure what it would look like, but possible I suppose. (This would make a great video to watch if someone can pull it off by the way, I offer no prize for this other than my undying respect and possibly, if you ask nicely, an in game mail in which I declare you my personal hero for life and $10,000 cash, by which I mean ISK).

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Lord Zek
Abnormal Experience
#22 - 2013-02-11 10:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zek
It's "decent" Hi-Sec "all in one-solo-exploration" cruiser (scorch at 23+5 that lasts for days, 2 utility highs, 1 mid for codebreaker). And for spinning in hangar ;)
Needs Large Cap Battery II to work. Was using it in BloodRider space can do everything - kinda fun.


Edit:
[Phantasm, Exploration.T2]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Booster II
10MN Afterburner II
Codebreaker I /// Change this to LSE II for some buffer for combat sites (hisec has stations allover so refit is ez)
Large Capacitor Battery II /// solves cap issues without boosters, counters BloodRider NOS a bit ;)

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Salvager I /// Change to Medium NOS or something if you use Salvage Drones (helps vs bloodriders sometimes)

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I // Can change 1 rig to something else if you have cap implants - Amarrians usually do ;)

Hobgoblin II x3

425dps - 23+5 scorch (this is range you need in Blood Vigil, pocket 2 for EM fields - or your tank fails when things get in range)
571dps - 7.5+5 conflag
111 dps tank (vs lasers) // 6400shields with LSE // 71em , 51therm, 63kin, 69exp
560m/s

Pretty sure there are ships that do this better for same price, but it worked with my skills. And yea putting some faction mods on it, quickly improves fit.
Carol Krabit
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-02-11 12:22:56 UTC
I have no experience with the Phantasm, but it looks like a ship that could be XL ASB'd to great effect. Anyone tried this?
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-02-11 15:28:35 UTC
Just throwing it out there:

A 100% damage bonus is basically a capacitor bonus - you are doing the damage of 6 lasers at the cost of firing 3 lasers - just as if you had 6 lasers with a -50% cap usage bonus.

However, its base capacitor stats still suck - but the problem isn't the ship bonus.

All the Sansha ships need a buff IMO, yes, even the nightmare (but not as much as the cruiser and the succubus)
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#25 - 2013-02-11 16:15:53 UTC
Carol Krabit wrote:
I have no experience with the Phantasm, but it looks like a ship that could be XL ASB'd to great effect. Anyone tried this?


The tank is a bit thin with an XL ASB. But yes, I've tried it.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Nikea Tiber
Backwater Enterprises RD
#26 - 2013-02-12 06:19:54 UTC
You could keep the weak cap and give it a range bonus to nos, that way your rapidly draining capacitor would ensure the function of your nos.
I'd like to see the phantasm actually be anything other than a pile of meh. I'm torn whether or not the succubus should get buffed; it has to be the ugliest ship in space.

my other nano is a polycarb

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#27 - 2013-02-12 06:23:02 UTC
That would ideally be the Ashimmu.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Ra1ne
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-02-12 11:50:03 UTC
Tolkenmoon wrote:
They used to have a wicked shield tank many years ago, but alas like everthing else that was good at something they nerfed it and now it is just a ship to own and not use.




MANY years ago they used to have an armor tank :) 6 lows iirc. Oh thems where the days
Skelee VI
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#29 - 2013-02-12 18:03:07 UTC
Don't pick on the best looking ship in eve. Cap issues , train some skills up.
Shield tanking is a sin!
Armor tank it, fly in small gang. you be primary everytime. by the time you lock your mates should have target down.
You can toast some frigs pretty easy too.
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-02-12 18:15:24 UTC
Skelee VI wrote:
Don't pick on the best looking ship in eve. Cap issues , train some skills up.
Shield tanking is a sin!
Armor tank it, fly in small gang. you be primary everytime. by the time you lock your mates should have target down.
You can toast some frigs pretty easy too.


What?
Maeltstome
Academy of the Unseen Arts
The Potato Alliance
#31 - 2013-02-12 19:11:26 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The Phantasm used to be awesome. It had HAC-level firepower with a nice buffer tank and very reasonable cost, and effectively replaced the Zealot. The problem was that it was the first faction cruiser to be updated, so when CCP released the faction ship boost patch they assumed the Phantasm was already good enough since it had been updated more recently than the others. Unfortunately they were wrong, and the Phantasm is now a terrible ship since everything else around it has been made so much better.


WELCOME TO THE RIFTER.
Storm Novah
Yada Industries
#32 - 2013-02-12 20:12:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Storm Novah
Cute E wrote:
Hint: the ship isn't amarrian*.


Actually from a skill perspective it IS part Amarrian... you need Amarr Cruiser (hence the lazorz) and Caldari Cruiser (hence the shield tank) both to fly it.

But as for what to use it for... I have one that I fly for solo exploration, running probed sites with it. I prefer beams personally and the tank on it isn't that bad and with max cap skills and/or implants that help with cap it makes it more viable. I don't have my fit handy but if I get a chance later I will add it.
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#33 - 2013-02-12 20:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Out of boredom I worked up a crazy fit. With the proper implants and a command ship booster. Not really a great use of 2 billion ISK but funny to think about it.

[Phantasm, ghost]
3x Heavy Pulse Laser II (Conflagration M)
2x Corpii A-Type Small Nosferatu

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Navy Cap Booster 400)
Pith C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Gistum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas EM Ward Field
10MN Analog Booster Rockets
'Palisade' Cap Recharger I

Damage Control II
2x Dark Blood Heat Sink

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
3x 'Augmented' Hobgoblin

So with unlimted Funds anyship can be great.

[Statistics - Goldiiee]

Effective HP: 47,089 (Eve: 39,965)
Tank Ability: 5,383.51 DPS
Damage Profile - (EM: 25.00%, Ex: 25.00%, Ki: 25.00%, Th: 25.00%)
Shield Resists - EM: 92.78%, Ex: 86.85%, Ki: 84.22%, Th: 84.20%
Armor Resists - EM: 57.50%, Ex: 32.00%, Ki: 36.25%, Th: 44.75%
Capacitor (Stable at 53.67%)
Volley Damage: 1,905.25
DPS: 578.35

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Siestre Vitale
Vita Post Mortem
#34 - 2013-02-13 17:02:39 UTC
goldiiee wrote:
Out of boredom I worked up a crazy fit. With the proper implants and a command ship booster. Not really a great use of 2 billion ISK but funny to think about it.

[Phantasm, ghost]
3x Heavy Pulse Laser II (Conflagration M)
2x Corpii A-Type Small Nosferatu

X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster (Navy Cap Booster 400)
Pith C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Gistum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas EM Ward Field
10MN Analog Booster Rockets
'Palisade' Cap Recharger I

Damage Control II
2x Dark Blood Heat Sink

Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
2x Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
3x 'Augmented' Hobgoblin

So with unlimted Funds anyship can be great.

[Statistics - Goldiiee]

Effective HP: 47,089 (Eve: 39,965)
Tank Ability: 5,383.51 DPS
Damage Profile - (EM: 25.00%, Ex: 25.00%, Ki: 25.00%, Th: 25.00%)
Shield Resists - EM: 92.78%, Ex: 86.85%, Ki: 84.22%, Th: 84.20%
Armor Resists - EM: 57.50%, Ex: 32.00%, Ki: 36.25%, Th: 44.75%
Capacitor (Stable at 53.67%)
Volley Damage: 1,905.25
DPS: 578.35


Thats gotta be the best way to blow 2 bill ever! i want one!

"Chance favours the prepared mind"

Ginger Barbarella
#35 - 2013-02-14 00:21:42 UTC
100% damage bonus. Nuff said.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#36 - 2013-02-14 00:24:14 UTC
No... it's really not.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-02-14 01:56:27 UTC
No matter which way you slice it, the Phantasm is missing something, and probably two things if it wants to be 'good' instead of 'meh'.

Personally, I'm in favour of switching the Phanny's primary weapon system to missiles as a radical fix to both give the old girl a unique feeling and to fix damn near all of her problems . Of course times have changed since Sansha had missiles as part of their flavour, but if you'll stay with me I think that's how you make it good.

The Phantasm is the following things atm:

  • A kiting ship
  • A laser ship with decent damage and a solid engagement envelope
  • Severely lacking in cap


Now, if we switch it from lasers to HAMs, the cap problem is less of a deal. It still won't be cap stable, but it'll be better. It probably still wants a boost to amount or recharge, but not a huge one.

Next we switch the damage bonuses around to give us HAM damage equal to the laser damage, and to get 30km range.

The result is a ship that is fairly unique and pretty good too, not epicly awesome but a decent ship. And it has a nice bit of old school sansha flavour. Yes, its more Caldari than Amarr now, but then again how exactly are the Bhaalgorn and Vindicator minmatar flavoured ? And how is the Mach gallente ?
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#38 - 2013-02-14 02:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Merin Ryskin
Valea Silpha wrote:
Yes, its more Caldari than Amarr now


Understatement of the year there. A missile Phantasm is a Caldari ship. It uses Caldari weapons, Caldari tank, Caldari slot layout, etc. There is nothing at all Amarr about it. And since there are already plenty of good shield tanking missile ships it's a redundant Caldari ship.

Also, the Vindicator and Bhaalgorn are Minmatar because of their web bonuses and (in the case of the Vindicator) speed. The Machariel isn't Gallente, but CCP's utter stupidity with the Angel ships doesn't excuse making the Sansha ones just as bad.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-02-14 02:53:52 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Valea Silpha wrote:
Yes, its more Caldari than Amarr now


Understatement of the year there. A missile Phantasm is a Caldari ship. It uses Caldari weapons, Caldari tank, Caldari slot layout, etc. There is nothing at all Amarr about it. And since there are already plenty of good shield tanking missile ships it's a redundant Caldari ship.

Also, the Vindicator and Bhaalgorn are Minmatar because of their web bonuses and (in the case of the Vindicator) speed. The Machariel isn't Gallente, but CCP's utter stupidity with the Angel ships doesn't excuse making the Sansha ones just as bad.

Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-02-14 09:34:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Anya Klibor
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
The one thing the Phantasm does have going for it is phenomenal fittings as the posted fit shows, you can practically just throw on whatever you think you want and just keep at it until the slots are full then notice you have empty rigs and you don't even need one for fitting. The cap issue is very strenuous, even injected it feels as if it's addicted to cap boosters and committed to the idea of overdosing at that.

In reality though both the Phantasm and the Ashimmu fall into the same category but for different reasons. Both look amazing and I like seeing them in space just so I can spin them around, but neither one really works as well as something else you could fly instead for a similar price tag.

Zealot > Phantasm
Curse > Ashimuu

The only thing I might be able to see is a Phantasm that can engage a small frigate gang alone and kill them all, abundance of mids and CPU can get you a web(s) easily and your tracking bonus can take care of the rest, not sure where I'm really going with this and not ultimately sure what it would look like, but possible I suppose. (This would make a great video to watch if someone can pull it off by the way, I offer no prize for this other than my undying respect and possibly, if you ask nicely, an in game mail in which I declare you my personal hero for life and $10,000 cash, by which I mean ISK).


The Omen can do that better, truth be told. If a small frigate gang shows up out of nowhere, the Omen has a drone nay, drones to spare, and solid DPS at range. Before the Omen was buffed (something like January of last year was when I did this) I took on a small gang of frigates in a solo Omen and handled them. I think even two Jaguars were involved.

As people have said, the Phantasm is lackluster as a cruiser. I will admit I enjoyed it for the very short time I piloted it, but I realized very quickly that both the Omen and Omen Navy Issue could do the same things, but better. Wit hthe changes to the Omen, base stats make it a much more profitable ship. It has higher base speed, higher base agility...and for a lot less than the Phantasm. Just as a comparison, I'll give you the fitting of my Omen as opposed to a similar fitting of the Phantasm:

[Omen, Comparison]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Energy Metastasis Adjuster I


Warrior II x5
Warrior II x3


[Phantasm, Comparison]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 25
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Warrior II x3

Overall (assuming equal skills), the Omen has slightly over 400 more velocity (1,936 to 1,521) and better align time/agility. The Phantasm, however, slightly nudges out the Omen in terms of DPS (414 to 405) but significant more alpha (1,123 to the Omen's 749). Overall for the "kitey" ships I believe the base Omen to be better by far.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.