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What does the Phantasm even do?

First post
Author
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#301 - 2013-09-30 10:00:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
VanKenMar wrote:
Any news about Phantasm in Rubicon? I didnt notice any informations of it.

Indeed. It seems that besides SoE ships, pirate ships will be rebalanced after pretty much anything else (save for maybe caps or supers).

Oh, and MJD bonus that was among NM suggestions got hijacked by marauders Smile
Battlingbean
Wings of the Dark Portal
#302 - 2013-10-05 23:28:59 UTC
One would think with the release of new pirate ships re-balancing the old ones at the same time would be a good idea.

Cynabals are everywhere and I'd really like to fly the Phantasm without getting laughed at.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#303 - 2013-10-06 19:10:57 UTC
I flew by a Phantasm yesterday while in a Pilgrim. Couldn't bring myself to attack him. It didn't seem fair.
Durbon Groth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#304 - 2013-10-08 18:38:16 UTC

Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

Make the ashimmu and cruor tanky. The bhaal is always in for the long fight. The amarr recons are squishy so shield curses are so common because you can skirt the edges of a fight. If the blood raiders ships had staying power as well as superior cap warfare skills they'd be more feasible imo.

Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.

Personally I think the sansha ships could make great micromanagement ships. Sure they have poor cap but I think if they had a great active shield tank and higher speed they could make a nice anti-sfi, filling a similar role but with a more cap dependant set-up.



Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#305 - 2013-10-08 21:58:36 UTC
Durbon Groth wrote:
Nightmare is very good,




I don't think almost never being used outside Incursions and Blood Raider level 4 missions is "very good". I could be wrong but I have never seen a nightmare outside of high-sec.
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#306 - 2013-10-08 22:50:59 UTC
They┬┤re quite awesome in shield WH PvE fleets.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com

Battlingbean
Wings of the Dark Portal
#307 - 2013-10-09 03:12:52 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
I flew by a Phantasm yesterday while in a Pilgrim. Couldn't bring myself to attack him. It didn't seem fair.


That was almost certainly me. heh

Can anyone explain why the Succubus, Phantasm and Nightmare have so much greater shield recharge times than the other pirate ships? It was clearly done on purpose.

Succubus: 910s
Other pirate frigates: 625s

Phantasm: 2082s
Other pirate cruisers: 1250s

Nightmare: 2673s
Other pirate battleships: 2500s
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#308 - 2013-10-09 05:46:37 UTC
Battlingbean wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
I flew by a Phantasm yesterday while in a Pilgrim. Couldn't bring myself to attack him. It didn't seem fair.


That was almost certainly me. heh

Can anyone explain why the Succubus, Phantasm and Nightmare have so much greater shield recharge times than the other pirate ships? It was clearly done on purpose.

Succubus: 910s
Other pirate frigates: 625s

Phantasm: 2082s
Other pirate cruisers: 1250s

Nightmare: 2673s
Other pirate battleships: 2500s



Black Rise?



On topic: Not sure about the shield recharge. Everyone I have seen is active tanked, even for PvE.
Battlingbean
Wings of the Dark Portal
#309 - 2013-10-09 06:02:22 UTC
Yes, Black Rise. Well with the crap recharge and few low slots of course everyone active tanks.

In fact, rapid shield recharge would make sense on Sansha ships and could be part of their identity. In the Phantasm's description we are told it has resilience and has an extremely efficient power core. Combining Caldari shield and Amarr energy technology would logically result in great shield recharge. Shield power relays and lasers together would certainly make NOS more attractive for the utility highs.
Or you could just slap a covert cloak on it since wormholes are kind of a thing in Sansha lore.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#310 - 2013-10-09 09:46:23 UTC
We have some plans regarding the Pirate Ships, but our schedule doesn't have room for them on Rubicon though.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#311 - 2013-10-09 16:55:25 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We have some plans regarding the Pirate Ships, but our schedule doesn't have room for them on Rubicon though.



I understand that redoing interceptors at the same time as the warp changes makes sense, I also get that EAFs are broken in their entirety and that the Marauder changes are a big deal. However, while not broken as a whole, the pirate ship lines are the least balanced of any in the game. The DD and the Dram are world's apart from the Worm & Succubus. The Cynabal and Vigilant laugh at the Phantasm. Pirate rebalancing has to be at the top of list. Especially now that EAFs, Inties, and Marauders are being taken care of.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#312 - 2013-10-09 17:08:57 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We have some plans regarding the Pirate Ships, but our schedule doesn't have room for them on Rubicon though.



I understand that redoing interceptors at the same time as the warp changes makes sense, I also get that EAFs are broken in their entirety and that the Marauder changes are a big deal. However, while not broken as a whole, the pirate ship lines are the least balanced of any in the game. The DD and the Dram are world's apart from the Worm & Succubus. The Cynabal and Vigilant laugh at the Phantasm. Pirate rebalancing has to be at the top of list. Especially now that EAFs, Inties, and Marauders are being taken care of.


One thing at a time - we do realize they need some love, but designers assigned to ship balancing (mainly CCP Rise, CCP Fozzie) aren't focusing only on this single field. We have many other internal tasks and duties to look at, and as we said above, there is so much we can do for a release.

For Rubicon, we had a choice between a Tech2 ship package (Marauders, Interceptors, Interdictors, EAFs) or Pirate Ships. We opted for the former. Pirate Ships will be looked at, just not right now.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#313 - 2013-10-09 17:23:24 UTC
I appreciate the quick response.


I understand the guys have a myriad of responsibilities and I don't expect ship rebalancing to be the #1 project for devs. My post was meant to convey that now that you have chosen the t2 package for revamp, Pirate Ships should be the next ship revamp project. Whenever it comes time to chose what gets rebalanced next. I will be very sad if 1.1 or the next expansion has the often seen Recons rebalanced while BattlingBean continues to be the only pilot in New Eden undocking the Phantasm.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#314 - 2013-10-09 21:34:16 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We have some plans regarding the Pirate Ships, but our schedule doesn't have room for them on Rubicon though.


All I ask... nay, plead - is that you keep the Vindicator (and indeed the entire Serpentis line) as the premium brawler ships. They should remain heavy dps, very close range ships that hurt like hell if they get close to the enemy.

Oh and given that SoE line is now the new shiny "pirate" drone line, perhaps you could consider an introduction of proper missile pirates? If I may blaspheme and put myself at risk of eternal wrath of these forums' inhabitants, perhaps the Guristas might be an option? /puppy eyes
kurage87
EVE University
Ivy League
#315 - 2013-10-09 21:51:43 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We have some plans regarding the Pirate Ships, but our schedule doesn't have room for them on Rubicon though.


All I ask... nay, plead - is that you keep the Vindicator (and indeed the entire Serpentis line) as the premium brawler ships. They should remain heavy dps, very close range ships that hurt like hell if they get close to the enemy.

Oh and given that SoE line is now the new shiny "pirate" drone line, perhaps you could consider an introduction of proper missile pirates? If I may blaspheme and put myself at risk of eternal wrath of these forums' inhabitants, perhaps the Guristas might be an option? /puppy eyes

They can't change Guristas to missile, that wouldn't be cool. They should be missile, but it's way too late. They should also have their own models, like every other pirate line, rather than just a reskin.

If they ever do introduce a pirate missile line, I imagine it will be when they release the missile application mods.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#316 - 2013-10-09 22:25:12 UTC
Here's hoping for some Minmatar/Caldari Thukker tribe ships. Armor tanked missile boats that are more about range and speed than the Khanid's in your face approach? Maybe locked into kinetic damage like the Caldari tend to be?

But yeah, nerf the Mach/Cyna and buff the Blood Raider and Sansha frigs and cruisers before making new faction ships.
ginsu gnife
THY BROTHERS KEEPERS
#317 - 2013-10-10 11:24:22 UTC
My post will focus only on sansha nation.....

Quick fix is to add a shield resist bonus for the entire line.. Kindof like the armor resist bonus on the abbadon... That could easily be done by rubicon :)

I own the whole lineup and fly them often.
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#318 - 2013-10-10 14:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Pertuabo Enkidgan
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We have some plans regarding the Pirate Ships, but our schedule doesn't have room for them on Rubicon though.

Not even Rubicon 1.1 :(?
Thanks anyway, am very curious what you're going to do with Cruor, Phantasm and Ashimmu.

O and Equilibrium of Mankind is still there too, if you ever decide to make their ships available to the capsuleers.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#319 - 2013-10-10 15:31:51 UTC
ginsu gnife wrote:
My post will focus only on sansha nation.....

Quick fix is to add a shield resist bonus for the entire line.. Kindof like the armor resist bonus on the abbadon... That could easily be done by rubicon :)

I own the whole lineup and fly them often.



As I've suggested before:
Take the role bonus from 100% to 150%, and drop the 5% damage/caldari level
This results in the same DPS: (100+100)*1.25 = 100+150

You now have a free Caldari skill bonus: 4% shield resist/level

They could *easily* have this change in place for Rubicon.

Then later, consider more carefully buffing some of the base stats, like shield regen, cap regen, speed, etc.


The Nightmare has less options that marauders do now: It does incursions (with FC disdain due to the cap issues if the fit, skills, and implants aren't perfect).
It does lvl 4 missions that don't require much tank.

It doesn't do PvP. It shouldn't leave High sec.
Battlingbean
Wings of the Dark Portal
#320 - 2013-10-10 23:07:45 UTC
Thanks for the replies.

A shield resist bonus would be lame and out of place. The ships are intended to be extremely aggressive since the nation goes around enslaving people and invading highsec, even the ships themselves have spikes on them. The current bonuses are certainly aggressive.

The ships just need aggressive stat buffs. The Phantasm and Nightmare have less slots than the other pirate ships and subpar stats in general.

It sounds like you guys already have a direction for the pirate ships but I just want to suggest a crazy idea to make Sansha ships unique. Remove the drones and add smartbomb bonuses. :D