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What does the Phantasm even do?

First post
Author
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
SCRUBS.
#81 - 2013-02-19 19:12:01 UTC
Machariel has bad damage projection. Say that to the frigs getting instapopped by a machariel sitting 249 from a gate.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Kesi Raae
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2013-02-19 20:19:00 UTC
I'd like to see the Cynabal have it's top speed vastly reduced but for it to keep it's agility, to differentiate it from the Vaga a bit and give reasons to fly either.

So you'd have:

Vagabond: amazing top speed, good agility
Cynabal: good top speed, amazing agility
Mr Ignitious
Lifeline Industries
Plucky Adventurers
#83 - 2013-02-19 20:39:09 UTC
Sidus Isaacs wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The Phantasm used to be awesome. It had HAC-level firepower with a nice buffer tank and very reasonable cost, and effectively replaced the Zealot. The problem was that it was the first faction cruiser to be updated, so when CCP released the faction ship boost patch they assumed the Phantasm was already good enough since it had been updated more recently than the others. Unfortunately they were wrong, and the Phantasm is now a terrible ship since everything else around it has been made so much better.


Ah yes, this dates back to 2009, and you're looking at the one responsible for that (along with the Dramiel, Cynabal and Machariel uberness)Oops

Considering I was the one breaking this ship in the first place, the least I can do is to post here what we think of pirate ships at the moment.


  • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

  • Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.

  • Guristas: Rattlesnake and Gila we are happy with, not so much with the Worm.

  • Serpentis: we are quite pleased with all the ships in this line.

  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


  • So, when would this be coming out? Not for a while, we have a lot of more urgent rebalancing to go through, mainly with Tech1 and 2 hulls, but this definately is on our to-do list.


As a guy that loves phantams, and was a bit sad to see it got a bit of a nerf when cynabal got a boost (if I remember correctly it lost some hp), in my opinion it need more mobility. The shield tank lets it be faster than the armor variants, and it could be a kiter. However now the cynabal, vaga and many others outshine it completely while having room for lots of utility. A bit of ehp boost would also be nice, but if given enough mobility, might not be needed. A little bit of grid would not hurt either, just so you can squeeze in a cap booster or a neut in addition to the largest lasers that gives you the magic 20km+ range.

Al inn all: better mobiliy, in form of more base speed and maybe agility. A tad more grid.



Sansha SHOULD NOT BE kiting ships. Think of their roles, angels are notorious for their speed and mobility. Sansha are shield tanked combat ships. What SHOULD happen is a buff to sansha tank strengths and buff their cap. Give em more EHP, and maybe some more fitting. DO NOT Give sansha vaga/cyna-esque role, that would be ********, it would be HIGHLY redundant with the only difference being the color of your ammo.

Cynabal should probably lose some fitting (it's capacitor sucks so w/e) and probably some EHP. The ship is harder to train for and to fly than a vaga because mistakes in a cynabal are much more punitive.

Machariel, idk. I don't see them often as anything but incursion/mission runners.
Storm Novah
Yada Industries
#84 - 2013-02-19 20:56:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Storm Novah
kyrieee wrote:
Storm Novah wrote:
And the Mach nerf QQ begins... seriously tho they both need nerfs. The fact that its flown to the exclusion of 90% of other pirate battleships means that its way OP.


That's laughable, vindicators and bhaalgorns see a ton of use in lowsec / wh fleet combat, much moreso than machs.

My apologies... I forgot to state that my remarks are strictly from the PvE perspective as I am not a low / null sec or wh toon.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#85 - 2013-02-19 22:10:33 UTC
Mr Ignitious wrote:

Sansha SHOULD NOT BE kiting ships. Think of their roles, angels are notorious for their speed and mobility. Sansha are shield tanked combat ships. What SHOULD happen is a buff to sansha tank strengths and buff their cap. Give em more EHP, and maybe some more fitting. DO NOT Give sansha vaga/cyna-esque role, that would be ********, it would be HIGHLY redundant with the only difference being the color of your ammo.

That's just ********, it's like saying Vindicator should have its speed and agility restored back to Megathrone's level and retain just webs or unique damage bonus. Atm Nightmare is so pathetically slow that even Golem runs 100-200 m/s faster. No one is asking NM to compete with Machariel in speed department, but just reasonably buffing its poor mobility would really help.

Why increase EHP yet again when pirate ships are already utterly overtanked and receive like +50% EHP over tech1 prototypes? Not everyone enjoys that combat style and the game has got enough of these ubertanking options anyway.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-02-19 23:21:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Darius Brinn wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Cynabal and Machariel...

Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


The "don't matter as much as they should" part is quite an understatement.

Both ships work with Artilleries AND Autocannons, and are able to effortlessly fit a full rack of the BIGGEST ones in each category.

Both have a 50% built-in falloff bonus with Gallente Cruiser/Battleship V.

It's actually the other way around: their damage projection is nothing short of AMAZING. Something to consider while we reveal in their unsurpassed speed, agility and scan resolution, best of their classes easily.

It's due time Cynabal and Machariel meet the Nerfhammer.



Chill out.

"Strongest" projectile battleship in the game being able to fit the largest guns isn't a problem.

If you think cynabals are "OP" then you are doing it wrong.


edit: does CCP even play their own game?
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#87 - 2013-02-20 00:38:08 UTC
Here's a simple but highly efficient idea: Add another turret to the Phantasm.

It may not be fast, it may not be tough, it may not have a lot of capacitor, but boy, does it melt your face.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#88 - 2013-02-20 01:50:46 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.

  • OMG did you just say the Cynabal has poor damage projection? Did you? i think you did. Because if you did you've never seen a 5.5km/s artybal in action (links, implants). The whole problem with the mach and Cynabal is the stupid tracking - even deep, deep into falloff you track so well (given you put all your lows to TE's and nanos) it is irrelevant, and since you can kite basically forever, luls. And low EHP? On a Macha? Pffft. On a Cynabal which will be 20km away from a scramming frig before it can even lock it?

    Really. They need a hard nerf, quickly. Which basically should be a nerf to boosters and links, because you obviously still live in 2009 before everyone had snakes and a pimped Loki. Just in case you missed it;
    -45% sig (making you harder to instalock and scram)
    + agility, which you already have in spades
    + speed (which Angel ships already have in spades)

    Move up to 2013, dude, and balance on 2013, not 2009.
    Inkarr Hashur
    Skyline Federation
    #89 - 2013-02-20 02:16:57 UTC
    Trinkets friend wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.

  • OMG did you just say the Cynabal has poor damage projection? Did you? i think you did. Because if you did you've never seen a 5.5km/s artybal in action (links, implants). The whole problem with the mach and Cynabal is the stupid tracking - even deep, deep into falloff you track so well (given you put all your lows to TE's and nanos) it is irrelevant, and since you can kite basically forever, luls. And low EHP? On a Macha? Pffft. On a Cynabal which will be 20km away from a scramming frig before it can even lock it?

    Really. They need a hard nerf, quickly. Which basically should be a nerf to boosters and links, because you obviously still live in 2009 before everyone had snakes and a pimped Loki. Just in case you missed it;
    -45% sig (making you harder to instalock and scram)
    + agility, which you already have in spades
    + speed (which Angel ships already have in spades)

    Move up to 2013, dude, and balance on 2013, not 2009.


    You bring up a good point, devs have already recognized the absurd power of boosting in general, and yet still refuse to do anything about it until some unspecified date in the future. Which honestly makes little sense. If you recognize an aspect of the game that sticks out as being detractory to the game balance, shouldn't you wield the hammer right away?
    Larloch TheAncient
    Freindly Mining Corporation
    #90 - 2013-02-20 02:31:10 UTC
    I don't think either the cynabal or the mach really need a nerf, yes they project damage well, but that damage isn't anywhere near what the other faction battleships can dish out, and don't have nearly the tank either.


    I'm not really a big user of pirate cruisers so I'm not sure about the cynabal, but the Mach's only real advantage over the other Pirate battleships are its speed. Without it, you might as well be in a tornado, it doesn't have all that much more EHP.

    Furthermore, I don't think the mach can take any of the other pirate battleships 1v1, at least not in point range.
    Naomi Anthar
    #91 - 2013-02-20 09:15:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Anthar
    First of all i love the fact that CCP sees things right way this time.

    I will say what i think about mentioned ships:

    Blood Raiders :
    1. Cruor - seriously ship is cool and all but how i'm supposed to neut/shoot unbonused for cap usage lasers/scram and web (it's bonused for it after all) without being able to fit cap booster ? Solution i suggest is ... to move either one high or low to mid. Really i hate to say but 2 utility highs on frigate level is cool idea but in this case it does not work. Many may disagree but read again what i said. It NEEDS CAP BOOSTER. And since it's bonused to web - it must somehow fit web too. So prop mod + point + web + booster on this ship must be somehow possible. One utility high ... will do just make it not 75% but 125% or something like that bonused.

    2. Ashimmu - great ship - looks simply awesome. But as mentioned it does many things but nothing really good enough ? I suggest one utility high moved too to either low or mid - preferably mid. But low will do too. 2 bonused neuts will still do the trick. If it will move to mid we can have 2 boosters or 2 webs - so it will be nice now. If moved to low - it can be more tanky.
    10/10 drone bandwitch/bay ? Please ... 25/25 or even better. I wouldn't suggest that much but other meant to be worse T1 cruisers got huge 40/40 or even 50/50 drone treatment.

    3. Bhaal - good as it is now i guess.

    Sansha Nation:

    1. Succubus - this ship ... is total fail all way. Needs to reworked. I mean 2 utility highs ? Really ? That sucks big time. There is no bonus to neuts/vamp on this ship. It's ok blood raider ships get utlity highs but this one needs those to be ... yeah completly gone. Go for 2 high/5mid/3 low - now it will be beast. It will be able to field huge tank and huge gank. And won't be cap starved. And fix damn speed it's slower than few cruisers ;o. Maybe add drone ;o or two !

    2. Phantasm - first of all speed. Second of all speed. And again speed. It's as fast as damn Machariel in base speed value ... and before Machariel can fit more lows for nanos etc . But not going to compare it to battleship atm. Ship once again with
    2 utility highs ? You really expect it to use cap for neuts when it struggles to shoot it guns and run it's tank ? I hope not. Tho on cruiser level i suggest you leave one utility high. Move extra one to either mid or low. For either more tank/cap boosters or low for more gank. 15 bandwitch / 15 bay is lol atm . With cruiser wide buff to drone bays/bandwitch (most notably omen 40/40) i suggest phantasm gets at least 25/50 and would strongly suggest even 50/50.

    3. Nightmare - it was said it's ok but ... It's struggling with cap problems and once again having more utlity highs than it really needs. Keep one. But on this one ima hesitate. Seriously getting 8th mid can ... make it overpowered with mid+ low = 14 ... it would be sick. So not sure there. Maybe it's fine ;o. Actually dunno i hope others can say more about it.

    Guristas :
    1. Worm - give it standard bay of 50 . And some drone bonus maybe just health and tracking like tristan? Instead of extra bay of course. Or make it more missile based ? Like bandwitch 35-40 and dunno bonus to missile damage ?

    2. Gila - seriously there is no missile based pirate faction ships. Guristas ships are drones. This should change a bit. I suggest you do reduce bay/bandwitch of this . No need to have dominix bay/bw . Keep 75 or 100 bandwitch. But change bonus on missiles to some damage/RoF and ... if you reduce bandwitch as you should - then add launcher.

    3. Rattlesnake - Change bonus to missile velocity to damage or RoF. Can't say more i don't fly it - just suggestion.

    Serpentis:
    1. Daredevil - can't say much - i think it deals a bit too much damage. I know it is supposed to deal a lot but ... maybe 150% instead of 200% ? It would still deal most of all.

    2. Vigilant - i think mostly fine. If i would have to vote nerf or buff i would say neither , but when forced to choose i would say nerf. Tho i thinks it's ok.

    3. Vindicator - as vigilant.

    Angel Cartel :
    1. Dramiel - ok jokes aside - needs to be fastest faction ship but it's over top atm. It takes spots of interceptors and is better in other aspects. It cannot be clear winner in all aspects. Dunno what to do exactly, but that is my oppinion about this ship.

    2. Cynabal - nerf hard - first of all bay bandwitch to 25/25. I wouldn't hit speed that much honestly - it's supposed to be fast right ? But hit it on EHP - so it's better fast or it dies fast - something that is not working atm.

    3. Machariel - i'm not gonna comment too much there lack knowledge about battleship tier mostly. But my impression is that is superior to other battleships and fast some cruiser ( Phantasm T_T). I know battleship should be tanky , deals punch etc. But now it's also really fast on top of that. Something is wrong for sure.

    I may edit some stuff later - if i will want to add something. I comment mostly on frig/cruiser , because honestly not much idea about battleships and all are good i guess, except for mach - too good obviously.

    Yup good that i can edit ! Added some stuff to Phantasm/Ashimmu
    Indira Himesama
    Andorianisches Bergbaukonsortium
    #92 - 2013-02-20 13:26:10 UTC
    Callic Veratar wrote:
    Could the Blood Raider ships be rebuilt to focus on Nos use rather than Neut use? Possibly a role bonus that makes the nos function like neuts (ie drain to 0 cap and 5x transfer amount).

    When reading that over again for full understanding I came up with another thought:
    What about a role bonus that turns a nos into nos-neut... meaning it always neuts the cap, but the limitation that you can only drain up to the level to equal the absolute cap % will remain. Then if the target had more cap, it would drain, if it had less or equal it would just neutralize without draining... Just an idea, if you want to play around with that role bonus. Because I am sure there was a serious balancing reason to the nos to be not able to drain someone empty and still give you positive cap while the module is activated.

    But good to hear the team is looking into the phantasm (and other pirate ships) uncouraging the player base to make suggestions.

    De Kus

    Love hurts, love strengthens...

    War Kitten
    Panda McLegion
    #93 - 2013-02-20 14:40:52 UTC
    Naomi Anthar wrote:

    2. Phantasm - first of all speed. Second of all speed. And again speed. It's as fast as damn Machariel in base speed value ... and before Machariel can fit more lows for nanos etc . But not going to compare it to battleship atm. Ship once again with
    2 utility highs ? You really expect it to use cap for neuts when it struggles to shoot it guns and run it's tank ? I hope not. Tho on cruiser level i suggest you leave one utility high. Move extra one to either mid or low. For either more tank/cap boosters or low for more gank. 15 bandwitch / 15 bay is lol atm . With cruiser wide buff to drone bays/bandwitch (most notably omen 40/40) i suggest phantasm gets at least 25/50 and would strongly suggest even 50/50.


    I'm just extracting the Phantasm bits - the thread is about the Phantasm.

    I love the look of the ship - flew one quite a bit, trying to make it viable for at least PvE before trying it in PvP.

    It sucks.

    The above quoted comments pretty much sum it up. It needs cap BADLY, even with empty utility highs, it's very slow for a shield tanker, and the drone bay is laughable.




    I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

    Diesel47
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #94 - 2013-02-21 04:12:51 UTC
    War Kitten wrote:
    Naomi Anthar wrote:

    2. Phantasm - first of all speed. Second of all speed. And again speed. It's as fast as damn Machariel in base speed value ... and before Machariel can fit more lows for nanos etc . But not going to compare it to battleship atm. Ship once again with
    2 utility highs ? You really expect it to use cap for neuts when it struggles to shoot it guns and run it's tank ? I hope not. Tho on cruiser level i suggest you leave one utility high. Move extra one to either mid or low. For either more tank/cap boosters or low for more gank. 15 bandwitch / 15 bay is lol atm . With cruiser wide buff to drone bays/bandwitch (most notably omen 40/40) i suggest phantasm gets at least 25/50 and would strongly suggest even 50/50.


    I'm just extracting the Phantasm bits - the thread is about the Phantasm.

    I love the look of the ship - flew one quite a bit, trying to make it viable for at least PvE before trying it in PvP.

    It sucks.

    The above quoted comments pretty much sum it up. It needs cap BADLY, even with empty utility highs, it's very slow for a shield tanker, and the drone bay is laughable.






    I wouldn't mind seeing more drones, much more speed, more cap and more low slots.
    Diesel47
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #95 - 2013-02-21 04:22:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Merin Ryskin wrote:
    The Phantasm used to be awesome. It had HAC-level firepower with a nice buffer tank and very reasonable cost, and effectively replaced the Zealot. The problem was that it was the first faction cruiser to be updated, so when CCP released the faction ship boost patch they assumed the Phantasm was already good enough since it had been updated more recently than the others. Unfortunately they were wrong, and the Phantasm is now a terrible ship since everything else around it has been made so much better.


    Ah yes, this dates back to 2009, and you're looking at the one responsible for that (along with the Dramiel, Cynabal and Machariel uberness)Oops

    Considering I was the one breaking this ship in the first place, the least I can do is to post here what we think of pirate ships at the moment.


    • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

    • Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.

    • Guristas: Rattlesnake and Gila we are happy with, not so much with the Worm.

    • Serpentis: we are quite pleased with all the ships in this line.

    • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


    • So, when would this be coming out? Not for a while, we have a lot of more urgent rebalancing to go through, mainly with Tech1 and 2 hulls, but this definately is on our to-do list.


    How is nightmare "Very Good" and Bhaalgorn just "Nice"

    Besides PVE, the Bhaal is such an important and infinitely useful ship.

    Whens the last time you've seen a nightmare PvP even?
    Larloch TheAncient
    Freindly Mining Corporation
    #96 - 2013-02-21 12:32:06 UTC
    Diesel47 wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Merin Ryskin wrote:
    The Phantasm used to be awesome. It had HAC-level firepower with a nice buffer tank and very reasonable cost, and effectively replaced the Zealot. The problem was that it was the first faction cruiser to be updated, so when CCP released the faction ship boost patch they assumed the Phantasm was already good enough since it had been updated more recently than the others. Unfortunately they were wrong, and the Phantasm is now a terrible ship since everything else around it has been made so much better.


    Ah yes, this dates back to 2009, and you're looking at the one responsible for that (along with the Dramiel, Cynabal and Machariel uberness)Oops

    Considering I was the one breaking this ship in the first place, the least I can do is to post here what we think of pirate ships at the moment.


    • Blood Raiders: Bhaalgorn is nice, Ashimmu and Cruor need some iteration. Need to find ways to make them useful at what they do without them competing too much with the Amarr Recon Ships.

    • Sansha's Nation: Nightmare is very good, Phantasm and Succubus also need some love. Probably going to need to have a look at their mobility and EHP. Open to ideas however, so this thread will be watched.

    • Guristas: Rattlesnake and Gila we are happy with, not so much with the Worm.

    • Serpentis: we are quite pleased with all the ships in this line.

    • Angel Cartel: while the Dramiel has been brought back into line, the Cynabal and Machariel need a nerf. Not necessarily a big one mind you, but at the moment they are just too much versatile with their flexible slot layouts, extended drone bays coupled with amazing speed and good damage. Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


    • So, when would this be coming out? Not for a while, we have a lot of more urgent rebalancing to go through, mainly with Tech1 and 2 hulls, but this definately is on our to-do list.


    How is nightmare "Very Good" and Bhaalgorn just "Nice"

    Besides PVE, the Bhaal is such an important and infinitely useful ship.

    Whens the last time you've seen a nightmare PvP even?


    The amarr bship line is fantastic, thats why you dont see nightmares being used as often as say a macharial.

    the mimnitar bship line is aweful imo, thats why you see more players going an alternate route if they have the isk.
    Goldensaver
    Maraque Enterprises
    Just let it happen
    #97 - 2013-02-21 12:48:26 UTC
    Larloch TheAncient wrote:

    The amarr bship line is fantastic, thats why you dont see nightmares being used as often as say a macharial.

    the mimnitar bship line is aweful imo, thats why you see more players going an alternate route if they have the isk.

    I would agree with you, but it's more the fact that it's a Tornado with more tank, damage, and projection, as well as a (relatively) large drone bay. It's slower and less agile, but still more like a BC than a BS.

    Also, the Minnie BS lineup isn't that bad. It's not great, but acceptable.
    Darius Brinn
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #98 - 2013-02-21 13:02:07 UTC
    Diesel47 wrote:
    Darius Brinn wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Cynabal and Machariel...

    Their theoretical weaknesses (lack of EHP, poor damage projection) don't matter as much in the field as they should.


    The "don't matter as much as they should" part is quite an understatement.

    Both ships work with Artilleries AND Autocannons, and are able to effortlessly fit a full rack of the BIGGEST ones in each category.

    Both have a 50% built-in falloff bonus with Gallente Cruiser/Battleship V.

    It's actually the other way around: their damage projection is nothing short of AMAZING. Something to consider while we reveal in their unsurpassed speed, agility and scan resolution, best of their classes easily.

    It's due time Cynabal and Machariel meet the Nerfhammer.



    Chill out.

    "Strongest" projectile battleship in the game being able to fit the largest guns isn't a problem.

    If you think cynabals are "OP" then you are doing it wrong.


    edit: does CCP even play their own game?


    I'm pretty cool, mate.

    We were discussing "poor damage projection" from the Machariel, which is not just "a non issue" > it's pretty much the other way round. The damage projection is incredible, which makes for bad balance when combined with great top speed and unmatched agility.

    Cynabals are not "OP" per se. But they make all Minmatar cruisers and the Vagabond obsolete, in a way the Vigilant never did to the Deimos.

    It should not be plainly "better" at everything, in my opinion.
    Sakkar Arenith
    Kenmei Corporation
    #99 - 2013-02-21 13:16:31 UTC
    @Ytterbium

    Concerning the Sanshas;

    Mate may I suggest a complete reversal from the Laser/Shield platform?

    Those of us who were around at that time, and even more so, those of us who were invested into RPing and making an art out of flying Sansha ships, were dumbfounded that someone decided them to be Shield tanking Laser boats..

    The lore clearly states that sanshas extravagant hull design was due to advanced ablative armor tanking properties, his mad genius created alien hulls that didnt just look different, but had a purpose, namely making them really tough.

    So, why then are we forced to use SHIELDS?! More tot he point, back then everyone was counting on armor tanking missile boats, because int he end THAT is what is missing in EVE.

    How about revamping sansha vessels into active tanking, light weight, missile boats?

    -low EHP
    -low/medium dps
    -medium cap
    -low pg

    -fast and agile
    -7.5% armor resistance bonus per level
    -7.5% Armor repper bonus
    -some missile dps bonus of any kind, EM dmg if you want

    That way youd have weird looking ships that have a purpose, arent overpowered and fill a truly unoccupied niche.
    DHB WildCat
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #100 - 2013-02-21 13:22:05 UTC
    To reply to the CCP post... about open to suggestions. I have flown all these ships a considerable amount of time and feel im fairly versed in them. So i hope some of these "ideas" will make sense. I wont write much about the frigs as to the fact that I do not know how to balance frigs as much as I do the cruiser / BS sized ships.

    Guristas -
    Rattlesnake - a beast, love it with the new drone damage mods it can tank and gank, but is very slow so if anyone gets caught by it, its because they came into it. (Possible suggestion, boost drone hp on combat drones so its not so easy to destroy these type of ships main dps.)

    Gila - Bonuses are missile velocity (sniper / kite) and 5% resists (brawler). The drone bonus is just cause its a drone boat. Now the bonuses are wierd like a mini ship. Do many things somewhat well but master nothing. Its almost built (on bonuses) to be a pure PVE ship. Now with drones, sniper isnt really an option. So maybe change the missile velocity bonus to rate of fire bonus and reduce HP on the ship a little so it cannot reach an insane passive tank like it currently has. Force it in close with an active tank.


    Serpentis - Love these ships
    Vindi - Fine

    Vigilant - only suggestion, since its blasters who cares about a falloff bonus. Maybe change it to something like the augorers hp per lvl bonus. Passive tank high dps, in your face.



    Angel Cartel -
    the name of the game here is speed and agility. I like both of these ships. I really do, I do not believe that the balancing here lies so much in the ships / as it does with balancing Tracking enhancers. The can hit way to far without sacrificing much of anything. If the TE change is too much, then maybe change both ships falloff bonus ( the gallente skill, which is wierd since no gallente ships get a falloff bonus) to a gallente bonus such as drone hp (which wouldnt make much sense on these ships) or something like armor resist / or repper amount. Since they are half gallente make them armor tanks.


    Blood Raiders -
    Bhallgorn - a beast with the right roles (no suggestions)

    Ashimmu - lol where to begin! So tell me again why the bhaal has a bonus to web range, and the ashimmu has a bonus to web amount? All the other faction BS / Cruisers have the same bonuses. This is very wierd! This ship has bonuses to be a kiting / shield tank but the slot layout of an armor tanker. My suggestion would be to simply give this ship more powergrid. Trying to fit lasers and neuts / nos is VERY PG intensive and this ship simply doesnt have enough of it to fit lazers / neuts / and an armor tank that isnt laughable. Now this wont invade the pilgrim because of its lack of ability to warp cloak / td like a mofo / and lacks resists.



    Finally my favorite and most experienced Sanshas

    Nightmare - its fine, best ship in game if you are man enough to brawl.

    Phantasm - its horrible, worst ship in game (faction). CAPACITOR! is a joke, you cant run the coffee maker in the pilots lounge longer than 5 min without having to get new batteries. Also why does this ship only have 14 fitting slots when every other faction cruiser has 15? Give it one more slot. Either mid so we can make a better shield tank / or low so we can make it faster. Right now the lack of that extraslot is killing it! So the extra slot along with a capacitor boost will put this ship right as rain!


    I hope some of these ideas make sense and thanks for reading them. These are one mans ideas and I hope the mad mob wont be too harsh on me.

    DHB-WildCat