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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Dont change the 2/10 plexes!

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Author
Vincent R'lyeh
Screaming Hayabusa
Neo-Bushido Movement
#461 - 2013-01-25 18:15:45 UTC
I know and am sad to say that R1FTA is busy booking Black Frog space to shift what remaining **** people have in Heild to somewhere a bit more lively.

Because Molden Heath is closed for business

I have deliberately developed an air of cynicism that I originally intended to make me appear somewhat louche and caddish but actually comes across as irritable hostility combined with the unspoken threat of sudden violence.....

DR BiCarbonate
Doomriders.
#462 - 2013-01-25 22:39:11 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
What about using the Incursion site spawning mechanism for these DED sites: that is, the beacon shows up in local, but the site despawns after being completed only to appear elsewhere in the same system. This allows a gathering point, doesn't require two ships or a poorly fitted single ship, and eliminates the possibility of camping the end room for profit.

This would be acceptable. Make it happen.
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#463 - 2013-01-26 04:41:31 UTC
DR BiCarbonate wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
What about using the Incursion site spawning mechanism for these DED sites: that is, the beacon shows up in local, but the site despawns after being completed only to appear elsewhere in the same system. This allows a gathering point, doesn't require two ships or a poorly fitted single ship, and eliminates the possibility of camping the end room for profit.

This would be acceptable. Make it happen.


Again I do believe that this leads to the issue that there is still virtually no PVP being generated at these sites since they will only exist for a short period of time until they are completed (run time 3-5 min in a PVP ship).
Without the beacon continuously available to draw people to it to fight and or inspect the complex, this solution will only succeed in bringing the PVE aspect back, which although nice is not what we are actually looking for.

Sylvous
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
#464 - 2013-01-26 15:32:46 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

The shift to exploration was done in part to reduce farming of the content, and introducing new rewards is something that has to be done carefully. The main question I'm trying to answer with the "no NPC" query is how much of the pvp was fueled by the loot rewards and how much was fueled by the interesting geography of the acceleration gates. If it's the latter the solution is more simple, if it's the former the solution is more complex.



Guys, this is the point we all have to realize. What idea could any of us come up with that would involve unfarmable content? PvE content in general and mining are both ways of "farming" isk if you've been playing longer than a month. Tell me a way to make level 4s "unfarmable" by experianced players using CNRs?

If we're asking for loot drops to fuel fights it's a complex problem now and anything we get will be here "soon" after they tell us it will come "soon". The arguments have all been made on our end so until we see some movement on SiSi we're shitouttaluck.

I've seen other MMOs try to tackle "farming" with "interesting pve content" and it always fails because the PvE is crap and not the reason why people are playing.
Swifty Blowback
Doomheim
#465 - 2013-01-26 18:24:27 UTC
Sylvous wrote:
DR BiCarbonate wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
What about using the Incursion site spawning mechanism for these DED sites: that is, the beacon shows up in local, but the site despawns after being completed only to appear elsewhere in the same system. This allows a gathering point, doesn't require two ships or a poorly fitted single ship, and eliminates the possibility of camping the end room for profit.

This would be acceptable. Make it happen.


Again I do believe that this leads to the issue that there is still virtually no PVP being generated at these sites since they will only exist for a short period of time until they are completed (run time 3-5 min in a PVP ship).
Without the beacon continuously available to draw people to it to fight and or inspect the complex, this solution will only succeed in bringing the PVE aspect back, which although nice is not what we are actually looking for.

Sylvous


Yep, agree with Sylvous on this.

I know people are trying to generate alternative "solutions", which is great, but we still need CCP to actually confirm that there was a problem with these sites being farmed in lowsec. We all know that the highsec ones were farmed 23/7 but I still have doubts about lowsec. It feels like we're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
Swifty Blowback
Doomheim
#466 - 2013-01-26 18:46:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Swifty Blowback
I was curious as to what impact this change has had on the systems where the static DEDs used to be. I picked Heild as my benchmark and I've just spent 10 minutes on eve-kill totalling frigate and destroyer (including T2 versions) kills in Heild for a random week before the DED change and a random week after the change. Here's what I found:

For the week Sunday 13th Jan 2013 - Saturday 19th Jan >>> frigates & destroyers killed in Heild was 9.
For the week Sunday 21st Oct 2012 - Saturday 27th Oct >>> frigates & destroyers killed in Heild was 126.

Yes, that's one hundred and twenty six.

For the first 3 weeks of January 2013, there are 4 and a bit pages of kills on eve-kill in Heild.
For the first 3 weeks of November 2012, there are 20 pages of kills on eve-kill in Heild.

I know there can be many other factors involved here and that I've only spent a few minutes looking into this, but given the massive difference in numbers, it's obvious that with this change CCP has completely crippled what was a thriving PVP system / community.

Can you hear us yet CCP?
Sylvous
Bigger than Jesus
#467 - 2013-01-26 22:10:32 UTC
Swifty Blowback wrote:

we still need CCP to actually confirm that there was a problem with these sites being farmed in lowsec. We all know that the highsec ones were farmed 23/7 but I still have doubts about lowsec. It feels like we're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.


Sadly the problem did exist, although to a much lesser extent. You could still cloak in the last room of the complexes effectively making the complex unusable to anyone (there were a small number of people who did this). Though (to me) the obvious solution is to make it so that any point beyond a accel gate that requires a key cloaks no longer work, and furthermore as long as a ship is within the complex (beyond a gate requiring a key) all gates up to that point remain unlocked until the player vacates the complex at which point the gates lock again.

That would fix the farming issue in low sec (and now with the highsec complexes gone, I can imagine that many a highsec camper would move to lowsec to use this exploit if the complexes were reinstated as is) while at the same time bring back all the PVP that has been robbed from lowsec.

Sylvous

Swifty Blowback
Doomheim
#468 - 2013-01-27 07:52:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Swifty Blowback
Sylvous wrote:

Sadly the problem did exist, although to a much lesser extent.


Yep I saw this occasionally. What I really meant is, was the extent of farming them in lowsec a problem? I think I only experienced 2, maybe 3 pilots doing cloaky farming. Maybe I have it wrong. That's why I long for CCP to split the data for highsec DED farming vs lowsec DED farming.

If we must strive for zero tolerance to farming the static DEDs, reinstate them in lowsec and ensure the loot spawns a few minutes after keys spawn. This will give players a chance to go in and challenge the farmer. If there are still some poor sad pilots who continue trying to cloaky farm, add a structure in the last room of the DED that when approached releases a large AOE decloak bomb. As CCP have said many many times, they want to give the players the tools to "police" New Eden themselves. Currently not feeling the love on that one.
Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
You've got RED on you
#469 - 2013-01-27 20:33:32 UTC
Plenty of solutions and ideas in this thread, not enough CCP.

There's a lot of good reading, if anyone cares enough, I'm losing hope.

[URL=http://novakaneinc.blogspot.co.uk]A Pirate's Perspective[/URL] [URL=http://community.eveonline.com/community/fansites.asp]Official EVE Online Fan Site[/URL]

Olleybear
Armed And Angry
#470 - 2013-01-27 22:42:11 UTC
I've been training my alt for mining! Astrogeology 5 coming right up...

/me crys

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#471 - 2013-01-27 23:04:18 UTC
Olleybear wrote:
I've been training my alt for mining! Astrogeology 5 coming right up...

/me crys


I joined HBC...

Invalid signature format

Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#472 - 2013-01-28 11:06:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
Swifty Blowback wrote:


For the first 3 weeks of January 2013, there is a total of 4 and a bit pages of kills on eve-kill for Heild.
For the first 3 weeks of November 2012, there are 20 pages of kills.
Swifty Blowback
Doomheim
#473 - 2013-01-28 11:16:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Swifty Blowback
Michael Harari wrote:
Swifty Blowback wrote:


For the first 3 weeks of January 2013, there is a total of 4 and a bit pages of kills on eve-kill for Heild.
For the first 3 weeks of November 2012, there are 20 pages of kills.
?




I assume you are confused. Try it now.
Turgesson
Gorillaz In The Mist
#474 - 2013-01-28 14:11:24 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Olleybear wrote:
I've been training my alt for mining! Astrogeology 5 coming right up...

/me crys


I joined HBC...


I downloaded Planetside.
Vincent R'lyeh
Screaming Hayabusa
Neo-Bushido Movement
#475 - 2013-01-29 10:32:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent R'lyeh
Guys...

guys...

Guys.

Guys listen.

I have the best idea,

guys listen,

I have the best idea ever.

Guys.

I'll put BOUNTIES,
guys listen here,

BOUNTIES.

I'll put BOUNTIES,

guys listen,

I'll put BOUNTIES....on ALL OF US.

Guys.

THEN all the.....Guys listen,

ALL THE BOUNTY HUNTERS WILL COME GET US!!!!!

I have deliberately developed an air of cynicism that I originally intended to make me appear somewhat louche and caddish but actually comes across as irritable hostility combined with the unspoken threat of sudden violence.....

Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
You've got RED on you
#476 - 2013-01-29 11:55:24 UTC
Had a very depressing convo with Sard Caid a night or so back. Thank you CCP for destroying a vibrant and exciting PvP community and not even giving us the courtesy of a reach around. Even poking devs on twitter doesn't seem to be working no more.

[URL=http://novakaneinc.blogspot.co.uk]A Pirate's Perspective[/URL] [URL=http://community.eveonline.com/community/fansites.asp]Official EVE Online Fan Site[/URL]

Angelus Ryan
One Ronin
#477 - 2013-01-29 14:12:34 UTC
Vincent R'lyeh wrote:
Guys...

guys...

Guys.

Guys listen.

I have the best idea,

guys listen,

I have the best idea ever.

Guys.

I'll put BOUNTIES,
guys listen here,

BOUNTIES.

I'll put BOUNTIES,

guys listen,

I'll put BOUNTIES....on ALL OF US.

Guys.

THEN all the.....Guys listen,

ALL THE BOUNTY HUNTERS WILL COME GET US!!!!!


I LOL'ed =)
Laktos
Perkone
Caldari State
#478 - 2013-01-29 17:23:35 UTC
Kane Rizzel wrote:
Had a very depressing convo with Sard Caid a night or so back. Thank you CCP for destroying a vibrant and exciting PvP community and not even giving us the courtesy of a reach around. Even poking devs on twitter doesn't seem to be working no more.



It is indeed very depressing. If you ain't some big null-sec alliance, CCP don't want to hear from you.

Latest PVP Video: Perseverance

Sard Caid does not endorse this message.

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#479 - 2013-01-30 10:48:42 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hey guys, we haven't abandoned reading the thread, but in this case we're not going to be able to give you a specific answer you're happy with.

I can confirm that it wasn't just farming of the highsec plexes that concerned us, we looked at the data for the number of unique characters completing the lowsec plexes as well and that number was much smaller than we wanted.

All I can really say is that we understand that this change removes a focal point for lowsec fighting that was beneficial in a lot of ways, but that the team here believes that when we look back on this change in hindsight later the benefits will outweigh the loss (in the same way that we believe the benefits outweighed the loss inherent in removing the higher tier static complexes in 2007).

We in Team Five 0 have also been working hard to produce designs that would improve traffic and combat throughout lowsec, starting with all the crimewatch improvements we released in Retribution that improve life for every pirate, and continuing with our designs that were detailed in the CSM minutes. We can't commit to the next stage until we have the theme selection process internally and with the CSM finished, but we're dedicated to building upon what we achieved for lowsec in Retribution.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#480 - 2013-01-30 11:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
One other note: Yes we realize that since Retribution the number of kills in systems like Heild have dropped, and we're not glad about that.

However if you look at all lowsec player deaths not involving a FW member, we've seen an increase of 68% since just before Retribution. That's an average increase of over 1500 kills a day in lowsec without a single FW kill included.

Retribution did not ignore lowsec by any stretch of the the imagination.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie