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The Two CSMs of EVE Online

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Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#101 - 2011-10-14 23:56:00 UTC
Sara XIII wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Jessie Kenan wrote:
I wouldn't mind if Estel Corp did the same, but of course they don't need to since they don't attract the ***** wardecs as they're not full of noobs.

Neither is EVE University. You've been misled. Only 15% of their total membership are characters less than three months old.


Can you back this up?

Poetic never lets things like facts or proof get in the way of his obsession with the uni.
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#102 - 2011-10-15 00:36:14 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Igualmentedos wrote:
Why isn't it okay to artificially raise the price of a war dec ...

It's okay to raise the cost of a wardec ... but ...

1. E-Uni is taking raising the cost to an extreme.

2. E-Uni is not bearing the cost itself of taking it to that extreme, utilizing an exploit to avoid the majority of the CONCORD fees to raise the cost of a wardec against them.



1. How much of an extreme are we talking? I honestly don't know because it doesn't matter to me. Although, it does make sense that even within the lore of EvE an entity could have so much political pull and money to make war declarations difficult. Also, if someone REALLY wants to kill a person they can, it will just cost them. As I said before, war decs are fine, but excessive griefing (especially against new players) is just out of line.

2. This I didnt know about please elaborate before I say something I regretLol
Mohr Cowbell
KarmaFleet University
#103 - 2011-10-15 00:37:08 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
There are two CSMs in this game.
They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. .


I have no idea if this is true or not. But seriously, why do you want to wardec E-UNI? Theres not exactly a shortage of corps to wardec. Oh wait.... oh.... I see why.
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2011-10-15 00:39:23 UTC
non judgement wrote:
Why worry about Eve-Uni?
No one really cares what you think about Eve-Uni. because you've gone on about them over and over again. Don't you think it's getting a bit old? How long can you hold a grudge for?

I've never been part of the Uni. I just think it's just a corp that helps people new to Eve. Which is great cause Eve isn't the easiest thing to just play without learning how to do all the different things in the game, and you feel like it's your job to give them a hard time about not much at all.

I'd like to see you try running a corp thats meant to train new players while getting heaps of wardecs. I don't think it's a simple thing unless you want to teach people how to fight during a wardec.

get over it.


/me feeding something bad and knowing it wont change.

Good points, also it isn't like EVE-U is holding SOV : /

Something clever
Gogurt
#105 - 2011-10-15 00:42:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogurt
...
Gogurt
#106 - 2011-10-15 00:42:51 UTC
...
Anela Cistine
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2011-10-15 00:45:11 UTC
How about a compromise: Get rid of the escalating costs of wardecs, so everyone in Eve can wardec Eve Uni and Privateers can wardec every single 0.0 alliance. To compensate and provide a safe place for lessons or whatever, implement a new concord widget that prevents launching drones and firing non-civilian weapons in 1.0 space at all.

There is plenty of precedent for magical concord widgets. You can't use a smartbomb on the Jita undock due to magical widgets. You can't use bubbles in highsec due to magical widgets. You can't jump your super cap fleet into highsec due to magical widgets. A new widget that was only used in 1.0 systems would fit right in.


1.0 systems are mostly places where billions of humans live, it always seemed a little odd that no one minds people firing all kinds of weapons right next to the amarr home world. It's a game so ammunition that misses the target never hits anything, but realistically plenty of ammo would get sucked into the planet's the gravity well, and even if it all burned up harmlessly in the atmosphere it would disturb the population. 1.0 systems are also where brand new newbies spawn, and they just want to be left alone while they figure out how to make their ships go. Allowing civilian guns would let them still do that first tutorial mission. If some jerk wants to put 8 small civilian guns on his battleship and try to gank people in 1.0 systems, I wish him good luck, it certainly won't go quickly.


1.0 systems are almost worthless now, this would just make them slightly more worthless. You can't mine there, the belts are all tapped out. If you want to rat you are much better off going to a 0.7 or 0.8 system, even as a low-skill newbie. (If you do want to rat in 1.0, I imagine civilian guns would be sufficient.) There would need to be some code jiggering so that missions wouldn't send you to fight things in 1.0 systems. People could cower in 1.0 and be poor and almost completely safe (with a reasonable tank even that 8 civilian gun ganker isn't much of a threat). "Schools" can keep their precious newbies safe during classes. But if you want to make any money you have to leave 1.0 and expose yourself to real guns and other dangers. Real newbies will be safe, but oldbies hiding in a school won't be able to rake in the isk without exposing themselves to danger. Everyone is happy.


Hilariously, Jita is a 0.9 system, so this wouldn't protect alliances visiting the largest market in the game.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2011-10-15 02:58:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Sara XIII wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Jessie Kenan wrote:
I wouldn't mind if Estel Corp did the same, but of course they don't need to since they don't attract the ***** wardecs as they're not full of noobs.

Neither is EVE University. You've been misled. Only 15% of their total membership are characters less than three months old.
Can you back this up?

Can you write a little PHP or Python or Ruby?

http://members.eveuniversity.org, and then run them against the API for character age.
Sara XIII
The Carnifex Corp
#109 - 2011-10-15 04:04:50 UTC
Unfortunately I can't. But you had to get that number from somewhere. 
Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#110 - 2011-10-15 04:50:28 UTC
Sara XIII wrote:
Unfortunately I can't. But you had to get that number from somewhere.
Tip: It came from his ass.

I'll actually some some of the work for you both this weekend if I get the chance - we have the data in the forum database already.
glepp
New Caldari Bureau of Investigation
#111 - 2011-10-15 07:02:28 UTC
In this thread: witness the fury of a lover scorned.

By golly, i almost don't wish i have better stuff to do.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#112 - 2011-10-15 07:05:49 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Sara XIII wrote:
Unfortunately I can't. But you had to get that number from somewhere.
Tip: It came from his ass.

I'll actually some some of the work for you both this weekend if I get the chance - we have the data in the forum database already.

Seems like lots of things he says comes from his ass.

I almost feel like offering some help. That's not a bad idea. If any corp wants to get rid of a wardec they can join and leave my alliance. But it'd expect to be paid, of course.
;D

Naturally, this is just to annoy Mr Poetic.

It sort of goes against my name, if I start getting obsessed with Poetic being an ass. I probably shouldn't offer my alliance like that.
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#113 - 2011-10-15 18:15:38 UTC
non judgement wrote:
I've never been part of the Uni. I just think it's just a corp that helps people new to Eve. Which is great cause Eve isn't the easiest thing to just play without learning how to do all the different things in the game, and you feel like it's your job to give them a hard time about not much at all.


The problem is, they don't help new players. I'll tie what I mean into the following...

Quote:
I'd like to see you try running a corp thats meant to train new players while getting heaps of wardecs. I don't think it's a simple thing unless you want to teach people how to fight during a wardec.


They don't teach PvP. They teach blobbing. As I mentioned previously, I watched a single RvB Hookbill warp into an EUni gatecamp at range. Rifters and other T1 frigates began to break off, chasing the juicy kill. I watched said Hookbill demolish seven or eight frigates and manage to warp out in structure. Even the biggest noob under my command could have known how to properly gank that Hookbill. However, without their Blackbird and ECM screen, they are nothing. When they come up against competent PvPers, they run and hide, and always will. They are just getting rich off of the work of the numerous lower members they have, nothing more.

You want to learn the basics of PvP? Join another corporation. They boast about being the premier alliance for learning in EvE, yet from what I have heard from many players, they don't actually teach anything. As was said earlier, no one should be safe from the Sandbox. Good job, CCP. You took one step forward with recent changes and decisions, only to take five-hundred steps back by taking away from PvP, legitimate or not.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#114 - 2011-10-15 18:24:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
There are two CSMs in this game.

The one that the players voted for. And EVE University.

The recent wardec policy changes are proof of EVE University, via Kelduum Revaan, being the other de facto CSM. CCP caters to their needs, without any oversight by the players. They've become a carebear haven. They are now effectively impossible to wardec. CCP gave them, in essence, a PvP flag. They can turn it on or off at their whim. Their decshield is 19 corporations strong, and they've been allowed to use an exploit to avoid the CONCORD costs of that decshield.

The only single danger left for them is the suicide gank. Any other method of PvP against them is fruitless.


well yeah, CCP have stated that the Goons' manner of exploiting CONCORD is allowed, why not give the carebears allowed exploits too?

An hell, the chairman of the CSM is trying to break the game... why dont ppl want to out him too? lol

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Lovelocke
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#115 - 2011-10-15 18:24:35 UTC
More tears about the uni haha love it. I love how griefers use "legitimate" mechanics which happen to help them, such as neut RR etc, but as soon as their targets use a legitimate mechanic they cry more tears than they've ever collected!

Oh and Poetic, can't really say much more. Kinda thought you would be letting your hardon die down and move on. Obviously not. I'm personally all for every single advantage given to e-uni because they actually do a hell of a lot for the game and all of you faggots filling the thread with tears; what the **** have you done for the game? Exactly, now stfu and do one.
Azelor Delaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#116 - 2011-10-15 18:25:52 UTC
Lovelocke wrote:
More tears about the uni haha love it. I love how griefers use "legitimate" mechanics which happen to help them, such as neut RR etc, but as soon as their targets use a legitimate mechanic they cry more tears than they've ever collected!

Oh and Poetic, can't really say much more. Kinda thought you would be letting your hardon die down and move on. Obviously not. I'm personally all for every single advantage given to e-uni because they actually do a hell of a lot for the game and all of you faggots filling the thread with tears; what the **** have you done for the game? Exactly, now stfu and do one.


That's just it...it wasn't a legit mechanic. It was, and should by all rights, still be considered an exploit.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#117 - 2011-10-15 18:29:27 UTC
Azelor Delaria wrote:
Lovelocke wrote:
More tears about the uni haha love it. I love how griefers use "legitimate" mechanics which happen to help them, such as neut RR etc, but as soon as their targets use a legitimate mechanic they cry more tears than they've ever collected!

Oh and Poetic, can't really say much more. Kinda thought you would be letting your hardon die down and move on. Obviously not. I'm personally all for every single advantage given to e-uni because they actually do a hell of a lot for the game and all of you faggots filling the thread with tears; what the **** have you done for the game? Exactly, now stfu and do one.


That's just it...it wasn't a legit mechanic. It was, and should by all rights, still be considered an exploit.


like kiting CONCORD?

Quote:
Cleaning up your own CONCORD spawn, so other people can make their own attack runs, is actually really easy. Dock at the closest station to the belt you just ganked in, then immediately undock in a newbie ship and don't move - simply drift for 30 seconds with your docking immunity. This will pull CONCORD to you, and since you have your docking immunity sentry guns will not kill you before CONCORD gets there. If multiple people participated in a gank, they should all do this at the same time.


Quote:
Sometimes clever pubbies, or lazy goons, will leave a spawn in a belt. You need to get rid of that before you gank, or you'll be instagibbed when you gank (unless you're in a Galtpest).

Concord usually only spawns one fleet per system. Concord, once spawned, will travel from place to place dealing with anything that shoots something they shouldn't. That means you just need to summon CONCORD somewhere else: take a newbieship in an alt and plink something - a GSC, or the staging pos. Just don't do it near faction police or sentry guns, so you don't die before CONCORD gets there.

If two people gank at once, however, there will be two fleets. It appears that the closest spawn is the one that moves: ergo get closer to the spawn you want to move (nearby belt, nearby pos, whatever) than the one you don't, then summon it. If all else fails, use safespots just off-grid. Don't worry about CONCORD being close: they take a flat 6 seconds to warp regardless of distance.


yeah cause thats not exploiting game mechanics at all

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#118 - 2011-10-15 19:23:44 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Azelor Delaria wrote:
Lovelocke wrote:
More tears about the uni haha love it. I love how griefers use "legitimate" mechanics which happen to help them, such as neut RR etc, but as soon as their targets use a legitimate mechanic they cry more tears than they've ever collected!

Oh and Poetic, can't really say much more. Kinda thought you would be letting your hardon die down and move on. Obviously not. I'm personally all for every single advantage given to e-uni because they actually do a hell of a lot for the game and all of you faggots filling the thread with tears; what the **** have you done for the game? Exactly, now stfu and do one.


That's just it...it wasn't a legit mechanic. It was, and should by all rights, still be considered an exploit.


like kiting CONCORD?

Quote:
Cleaning up your own CONCORD spawn, so other people can make their own attack runs, is actually really easy. Dock at the closest station to the belt you just ganked in, then immediately undock in a newbie ship and don't move - simply drift for 30 seconds with your docking immunity. This will pull CONCORD to you, and since you have your docking immunity sentry guns will not kill you before CONCORD gets there. If multiple people participated in a gank, they should all do this at the same time.


Quote:
Sometimes clever pubbies, or lazy goons, will leave a spawn in a belt. You need to get rid of that before you gank, or you'll be instagibbed when you gank (unless you're in a Galtpest).

Concord usually only spawns one fleet per system. Concord, once spawned, will travel from place to place dealing with anything that shoots something they shouldn't. That means you just need to summon CONCORD somewhere else: take a newbieship in an alt and plink something - a GSC, or the staging pos. Just don't do it near faction police or sentry guns, so you don't die before CONCORD gets there.

If two people gank at once, however, there will be two fleets. It appears that the closest spawn is the one that moves: ergo get closer to the spawn you want to move (nearby belt, nearby pos, whatever) than the one you don't, then summon it. If all else fails, use safespots just off-grid. Don't worry about CONCORD being close: they take a flat 6 seconds to warp regardless of distance.


yeah cause thats not exploiting game mechanics at all


This is why people laugh at the "leet pvpers" theyre just a bunch of carebears lmao.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#119 - 2011-10-15 21:52:55 UTC
If i block you, does that keeps your threads away from my front page?

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Ogi Talvanen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#120 - 2011-10-15 22:38:25 UTC
Confirming Kelduum Revaan leads secret CSM composed only of secret Uni Directors.