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How will crimewatch changes "break" can flipping?

First post
Author
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#241 - 2012-08-16 16:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Melodee619 wrote:
its really pathetic how CCP is bending over for the bots an afkers.. they are turning EVE into wow :(... Its becoming more an more wow an less EVE every patch now.
Let alone this moronic **** about making anyone that kills flagged to everyone in HS, since it isn't the idiots fault for attacking the flipper... Obliviously its the can flippers fault that the idiot attacks him.....

typical wow mentality if no self responsibility.
I had a fun one tonight, I jump in on this moron with 5 macks botting, I attack 1 an he suddenly jumps a tengu in like thats gonna stop me. with 3 DCU's on it...idiot then threatens me since it isn't his fault hes sitting there boiting with macks that are totally unfitted.

basically todays EVE players are professional victims an its never their fault.


Are you really crying about aggressors having to take some risks? LOL.

Clearly, you do not have the capacity to think rationally and are in no position to call others "idiots".

It is really amazing how so many disgruntled losers feel the need to take their anger out on miners instead of targets that will fight back. Cowards and scrubs trying to take revenge on the world. Glad I don't feel the need to stoop so low. Normal people would prefer a challenge than to shoot fish in a barrel. I'm glad CCP is taking away your riskless, easymode "pvp".

I'm really glad that miner ganking is possible, but to dedicate very much time into annoying random people on the internet, instead of those who actually deserve to get **** on and clearly would rage more, is indicative of a sore loser trying to share his pain. Surely these miner gankers and can flippers would rage at least 10x harder than any miner they kill. Personally I prefer to blow up can flippers and would be suicide gankers because I know they are already in emotional pain and actually deserve it.

when you blow up a miner, they really probably don't think much of it, that they are overdue, and can recover losses quickly with minimal effort. When you blow up some angst-filled loser who dedicates all his time to being a douchebag to random people, you know they are probably jumping up and down, screaming at their monitor and pulling their hair out. You know who you are.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#242 - 2012-08-16 16:26:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
Suvari Khashour wrote:
your just upset because you can't gank noobs with impunity anymore, maybe now you have to actually enter into PVP with risk attached, we'll see who the real PVP'ers are, and who are the wannabee's, cut the wheat from the chaff so to speak, i think the tears over this say more about the people that are complaining about it, tbh, than those that arent. Eve evolves, you have to too Pirate


But I don't gank noobs at all? LOL.

I only care that the only way you carebears can defend yourself is when CCP changes mechanics. Pretty weak, thus I'm telling you to HTFU.

If anything, I applaud the people killing these miners and newer players. It gives them an idea of what EvE is, so what they lose is a t1 fit osprey or bantam. Not a raven navy issue 3 months later.
lollerwaffle
Perkone
Caldari State
#243 - 2012-08-16 16:36:19 UTC
What I learned from this thread:

1. Knowledge is no longer power.

If someone is unaware of game mechanics and you take advantage of them, you're a 'bully'.
If someone is unaware of game mechanics and a pop up box informs them of said mechanic, yet they still IGNORE the warning, and you take advantage of that, you're a bully. Oh and a coward to boot.
If someone is unaware of game mechanics, is taken advantage of, and still does not learn their lesson, your STILL a bully bla bla bla...
If someone is unaware of game mechanics, it should ALWAYS be CCP's fault to change the game mechanics to suit them.

2. No longer will we need to take responsibility for our actions.

If someone is flagged to you, it counts as 'aggression' and they should be punished by EVERYONE.
If someone is flagged to you, and you have a choice of whether to shoot them first, they are CLEARLY the aggressor and left you with NO choice.
If someone makes themselves an easy kill, they shouldn't be blamed for it despite repeated warnings in pop up boxes, in forums, in advice available from chat etc. Instead, CCP should make sure nothing atrocious like NOT tanking your own ships/investment, IGNORING popup boxes etc. ever happens again.

3. Everyone who agrees with me is a sane, mature, and eloquent individual. Everyone who doesn't agree with me does not warrant any manners and I should proceed to insult them in a childish manner. Clearly I am in the right, and there should be no opinions contrary to mine, open to discussion on an online forum.

4. Further to above, everyone who shoots people in a MMO with PVP as a main part of the game is a coward, bully, scumbag blablabla... Clearly, these people are also sociopaths in real life, live in their mom's basements, and have no more toilet paper (and a very muscular right arm.

5. EVE is designed to be a cold, harsh universe. However this should not apply to anyone that is risk averse. They should be left alone by everyone else. In fact, CCP should design a special hat, or make their ships a special rainbow colour with lots of fluff so other players will know that they need their hands held.

Great thread! Very educational!
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#244 - 2012-08-16 16:56:43 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:

I'm really glad that miner ganking is possible, but to dedicate very much time into annoying random people on the internet, instead of those who actually deserve to get **** on and clearly would rage more, is indicative of a sore loser trying to share his pain. Surely these miner gankers and can flippers would rage at least 10x harder than any miner they kill. Personally I prefer to blow up can flippers and would be suicide gankers because I know they are already in emotional pain and actually deserve it.

when you blow up a miner, they really probably don't think much of it, that they are overdue, and can recover losses quickly with minimal effort. When you blow up some angst-filled loser who dedicates all his time to being a douchebag to random people, you know they are probably jumping up and down, screaming at their monitor and pulling their hair out. You know who you are.


You think a suicide ganker 'gets mad' if he loses a suicide ganking ship? Really? Thats hilarious.
You really don't know very much, do you?

And I can speak from long experience - miners don't like it when they lose their Hulks. Some show it more than others, and miner lol-'earnings' vary with mineral prices....but the wonder of basic math reveals that it takes FAR longer to replace a Hulk (many, many hours) than it does to pop one - (about 10 seconds, with a couple minutes of setup...)

Also, extra silly points awarded - for calling people cowards while simultaneously using an obv posting-alt. Roll


Idris Helion
Doomheim
#245 - 2012-08-16 17:15:18 UTC
Can-flippers haunt the noob systems for a reason: they're looking for easy kills. They can get "real" PVP any time they want out in losec or null, but of course they don't want real PVP -- they want cheap kills to pad their killboard stats.

I've always considered flippers and gankers more a nuisance than a threat. Your losses can be big early on before you've skilled up, but if you can afford to fly even a T1 barge you can afford to replace it. You can get a Retriever now for about 20M ISK, and most players skilled enough to fly a Ret can replace it in an hour or so. Most don't even have to replace the loss because they've already got several spares.

Griefers and gankers do it for the lulz, not the ISK. Deny them the lulz and they'll go bother someone else.

You're going to lose ships in EVE. The hardest thing to learn as a noob is not to let ship losses bother you. Losing ships is inevitable -- in fact, EVE's economy wouldn't function without a lot of ships getting blowed up all the time. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and take your losses as a cost of doing business.

That being said: don't get a rep for being an easy target. Fight back, always. Never go down without making the attacker pay. Gankers like other predators are looking for easy prey. Make yourself a real pain in the ass to kill. Make it completely unprofitable to take you down. (This is why I harp on tanking your mining barges properly, even in hisec space. If every Hulk and Mack in EVE were properly tanked, Hulkageddon would have faded away years ago due to lack of interest.)

Idris Helion
Doomheim
#246 - 2012-08-16 17:25:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Idris Helion
lollerwaffle wrote:
What I learned from this thread:

1. Knowledge is no longer power.

If someone is unaware of game mechanics and you take advantage of them, you're a 'bully'.
If someone is unaware of game mechanics and a pop up box informs them of said mechanic, yet they still IGNORE the warning, and you take advantage of that, you're a bully. Oh and a coward to boot.
If someone is unaware of game mechanics, is taken advantage of, and still does not learn their lesson, your STILL a bully bla bla bla...
If someone is unaware of game mechanics, it should ALWAYS be CCP's fault to change the game mechanics to suit them.

2. No longer will we need to take responsibility for our actions.

If someone is flagged to you, it counts as 'aggression' and they should be punished by EVERYONE.
If someone is flagged to you, and you have a choice of whether to shoot them first, they are CLEARLY the aggressor and left you with NO choice.
If someone makes themselves an easy kill, they shouldn't be blamed for it despite repeated warnings in pop up boxes, in forums, in advice available from chat etc. Instead, CCP should make sure nothing atrocious like NOT tanking your own ships/investment, IGNORING popup boxes etc. ever happens again.

3. Everyone who agrees with me is a sane, mature, and eloquent individual. Everyone who doesn't agree with me does not warrant any manners and I should proceed to insult them in a childish manner. Clearly I am in the right, and there should be no opinions contrary to mine, open to discussion on an online forum.

4. Further to above, everyone who shoots people in a MMO with PVP as a main part of the game is a coward, bully, scumbag blablabla... Clearly, these people are also sociopaths in real life, live in their mom's basements, and have no more toilet paper (and a very muscular right arm.

5. EVE is designed to be a cold, harsh universe. However this should not apply to anyone that is risk averse. They should be left alone by everyone else. In fact, CCP should design a special hat, or make their ships a special rainbow colour with lots of fluff so other players will know that they need their hands held.

Great thread! Very educational!


I'm just curious as to why you feel it's your duty to enlighten noobs as to the "proper" way to play the game. They're paying the same subscription fees you are, and have the same expectation of having an enjoyable experience that you do.

EVE isn't a job. It's not the frigging Army. It's a game, and one that too many people take way too seriously.

That whole "cold, hard universe" thing gets trotted out by every ganking douchebag in EVE, and I'm sick of it. If you're so seriously into the cold, hard aspects of EVE, if you're such a legendary bad-ass, why aren't you mixing it up out in losec or null? Why are you trolling noobs in 1.0 systems for their pathetic little can of Veld?

Griefing noobs should be an immediate death-sentence in high. The game mechanics didn't protect noobs enough until now, but I'm glad to see that CCP is taking the problem seriously.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#247 - 2012-08-16 17:25:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Herr Wilkus wrote:

You think a suicide ganker 'gets mad' if he loses a suicide ganking ship? Really? Thats hilarious.
You really don't know very much, do you?





*snip* Most suicide gankers have orcas with all their ships in it and usually a noctis. Maybe if you weren't so awful and afraid of pvp you would be choosing targets that actually care when they get blown up, are equipped with actual weapons, and can't recover their losses with afk work inside a day.

EDIT: Resorting to personal attacks is against forum rules, please refrain from doing so.


Personal attacks removed - ISD Type40.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#248 - 2012-08-16 18:03:12 UTC
I think some bittervets forget how long it took them to learn the game. EVE has a skyscraper-sized learning curve, and it's hard enough for noobs to get on top of all the myriad details of the game without having to deal with being harassed by players with far more experience than them. The real-time skill training system also means that it takes a long time for a noob to get up to speed: even once they understand the mechanics and rules, their ability to defend themselves is severely curtailed for the first couple of weeks of play.

Some of this I blame on the New Player Experience that CCP has set up. It's better than it used to be, but it's still not good enough to give new players a handle on some important aspects of the game (aggression mechanics, PVE fits versus PVP fits, and explaining how security status works). I've seen level 1 missions that send players into .4 systems, where the unsuspecting mission-runners get obliterated without ever knowing why.

Without a constant influx of new players, EVE will wither and die. A small, fixed population of high-level PLEX players isn't going to pay the bills for CCP. But in order to get new players into the game, the game has to be fun and exciting right away -- you can't say, "This game will get fun in a month or so when your skills are high enough. Until then, you're cannon fodder. Good luck!"

I generally push noobs I meet to go into EVE University. That's a great example of how to get noobs into a PVP mindset and still make the experience an enjoyable one.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#249 - 2012-08-16 18:03:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Nerf Burger wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:

You think a suicide ganker 'gets mad' if he loses a suicide ganking ship? Really? Thats hilarious.
You really don't know very much, do you?





*snip* Most suicide gankers have orcas with all their ships in it and usually a noctis. Maybe if you weren't so awful and afraid of pvp you would be choosing targets that actually care when they get blown up, are equipped with actual weapons, and can't recover their losses with afk work inside a day.


Hey, you are the one making brainless assertions like "suicide gankers get angry" when they lose..... a disposable ship that was intended to die anyway.

And the rest of it doesn't make sense either. I measure success in terms of ISK destroyed and # of carebears I cause to quit the game.

Behind Door 1:
Roam low-sec, waste hours and maybe blow up a Rupture worth 10M that is guaranteed to be Platinum insured. Collect no tears, because the victim doesn't really care if they die - because in low-sec people expect to die and risk nothing.

Behind Door 2:
Or, blow up 300M ISK uninsurable Hulks, inflict significant pain while earning ISK from salvage and extortion fees.

Gee, Monty, I think I'll go with Door 2. Cool


EDIT: Pardon the intrusion, just had to edit that quote - ISD Type40.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#250 - 2012-08-16 18:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:

You think a suicide ganker 'gets mad' if he loses a suicide ganking ship? Really? Thats hilarious.
You really don't know very much, do you?





*snip* Most suicide gankers have orcas with all their ships in it and usually a noctis. Maybe if you weren't so awful and afraid of pvp you would be choosing targets that actually care when they get blown up, are equipped with actual weapons, and can't recover their losses with afk work inside a day.


Hey, you are the one making brainless assertions like "suicide gankers get angry" when they lose..... a disposable ship that was intended to die anyway.

And the rest of it doesn't make sense either. I measure success in terms of ISK destroyed and # of carebears I cause to quit the game.

Behind Door 1:
Roam low-sec, waste hours and maybe blow up a Rupture worth 10M that is guaranteed to be Platinum insured. Collect no tears, because the victim doesn't really care if they die - because in low-sec people expect to die and risk nothing.

Behind Door 2:
Or, blow up 300M ISK uninsurable Hulks, inflict significant pain while earning ISK from salvage and extortion fees.

Gee, Monty, I think I'll go with Door 2. Cool




It doesnt make sense to blow up an orca full of suicide ganker ships and a noctis? lol. OKAY. btw, hulks dont cost that much and are insurable. *snip*


EDIT: Had to edit that quote and your own post. Please refrain from personal attacks as they do nothing to further a discussion.


Quote edited and personal attacks removed - ISD Type40.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#251 - 2012-08-16 18:52:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
Nerf Burger wrote:


It doesnt make sense to blow up an orca full of suicide ganker ships and a noctis? lol. OKAY. btw, hulks dont cost that much and are insurable. Judging by the nonsense comming from you, I can assume you are a troll, and a bad one at that. Seems like all you do is salvage other ppl wrecks, lol. Thanks for making me feel better about my brain, kid. Glad I'm not nearly as pathetic.


Of course I 'salvage other ppl wrecks, lol'. After I've killed them. Then I salvage my suicide wreck too.

Yes, many suicide gankers use Orcas. I've got 11 or 12 of them staged at different icebelts myself.
And no, the Noctis is never carried around in an Orca providing ganker support - for reasons which should be immediately obvious. Whatever gave you that stupid idea? Please, please don't make me explain why.

Naturally, I was referring to Hulks prior to the Aug 8 patch, which wildly affected prices.
Oh, OK, yeah T2 Exhumers are 'insurable'. Got it. Roll How much of the purchase price is recovered again?

Aside from that, sure it 'makes sense' to blow up an Orca, but the trick is doing it.
If you think a suicide ganker is going to somehow give you aggro rights against an Orca alt, you seriously misunderstand how they are actually used.

I'd like to see the KM where you actually killed an Orca full of suicide ships, since you are apparently the expert.
.....Oh wait - to do that you'd have to actually HAVE ONE first....and come out from hiding behind your troll-alt. Lol
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#252 - 2012-08-16 19:09:12 UTC
I have had to edit numerous troll posts, non constructive posts and personal insults from this thread. As I have stated before, such things will not be tolerated on these forums. Understandably some issues will arise from time to time that cause things to get a little heated, however that does not excuse slinging personal insults at one another.

These forums are for the benefit of the community as a whole, so lets keep the discussion clean and on topic in future, that way we might achieve something. Thank you - ISD type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Tesal
#253 - 2012-08-16 19:14:51 UTC
This is a bad idea. What about mining ops where you have miners out of your corp or alliance. You need to empty jetcans just to get the ore, picking up with an Orca or a hauler. You get flagged that way, but no one shoots you because you are a friendly. After these changes anyone would be able to shoot your orca or hauler. This would end out of corp mining ops.
Kalisis
Rampaging Malicious Scoundrels
#254 - 2012-08-16 19:43:02 UTC
Tesal wrote:
This is a bad idea. What about mining ops where you have miners out of your corp or alliance. You need to empty jetcans just to get the ore, picking up with an Orca or a hauler. You get flagged that way, but no one shoots you because you are a friendly. After these changes anyone would be able to shoot your orca or hauler. This would end out of corp mining ops.


Can't wait for this, should be fun to see all the orcas that get pop'd due to this. Hopefully I'll catch a couple. Twisted
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#255 - 2012-08-16 23:50:55 UTC
Or maybe it will make CCP realize what a terrible idea this is.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Melodee619
Heavy Industry Construction and Mining Inc.
#256 - 2012-08-17 00:01:40 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
Melodee619 wrote:
its really pathetic how CCP is bending over for the bots an afkers.. they are turning EVE into wow :(... Its becoming more an more wow an less EVE every patch now.
Let alone this moronic **** about making anyone that kills flagged to everyone in HS, since it isn't the idiots fault for attacking the flipper... Obliviously its the can flippers fault that the idiot attacks him.....

typical wow mentality if no self responsibility.
I had a fun one tonight, I jump in on this moron with 5 macks botting, I attack 1 an he suddenly jumps a tengu in like thats gonna stop me. with 3 DCU's on it...idiot then threatens me since it isn't his fault hes sitting there boiting with macks that are totally unfitted.

basically todays EVE players are professional victims an its never their fault.


Are you really crying about aggressors having to take some risks? LOL.

Clearly, you do not have the capacity to think rationally and are in no position to call others "idiots".

It is really amazing how so many disgruntled losers feel the need to take their anger out on miners instead of targets that will fight back. Cowards and scrubs trying to take revenge on the world. Glad I don't feel the need to stoop so low. Normal people would prefer a challenge than to shoot fish in a barrel. I'm glad CCP is taking away your riskless, easymode "pvp".

I'm really glad that miner ganking is possible, but to dedicate very much time into annoying random people on the internet, instead of those who actually deserve to get **** on and clearly would rage more, is indicative of a sore loser trying to share his pain. Surely these miner gankers and can flippers would rage at least 10x harder than any miner they kill. Personally I prefer to blow up can flippers and would be suicide gankers because I know they are already in emotional pain and actually deserve it.

when you blow up a miner, they really probably don't think much of it, that they are overdue, and can recover losses quickly with minimal effort. When you blow up some angst-filled loser who dedicates all his time to being a douchebag to random people, you know they are probably jumping up and down, screaming at their monitor and pulling their hair out. You know who you are.


lol your calling me names, what is this, schoolyard?....
As for there is no emotional pain in eve, or any other pain. This is a computer game, if you cant separate that fact then you should get off the internet now, because it isnt good for you.

"BOTTERS" an "AFKERS" deserve to be killed. They ruin the economy. You obliviously bot or afk or some such, an have some sort of idea that you are above the rule set the rest of us follow. I take risks every single time I gank people. With a 3b isk clone, and 200 mil isk ship loss every time I kill a miner... I wear those costs cos to me they are irrelevant.
None of them are real an they have zero bearing on my life. Try it sometime...'

Your little passive aggressive rant an snide remarks to sidestep the editor seeing your post is really juvenile mate....

Come back an see me when you are over this....thing whatever it is.

edit by the way, "dedicating" my playtime to killing bots an afkers is my playstyle, how arrogant to you have to be to call my playstyle "being an ********" compared to yours where you screw up the economy with 1 billion unit trit sales on market, an trashing the prices all time...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#257 - 2012-08-17 01:29:12 UTC
When did bots come into this? You can't can flip bots. If you can, that's a really poorly configured bot.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#258 - 2012-08-17 02:10:07 UTC
Kalisis wrote:
Tesal wrote:
This is a bad idea. What about mining ops where you have miners out of your corp or alliance. You need to empty jetcans just to get the ore, picking up with an Orca or a hauler. You get flagged that way, but no one shoots you because you are a friendly. After these changes anyone would be able to shoot your orca or hauler. This would end out of corp mining ops.

Can't wait for this, should be fun to see all the orcas that get pop'd due to this. Hopefully I'll catch a couple. Twisted

That's a great counter. NPC corp orcas have that problem, in-corp ones have the wardec problem.

Of course you could just disband and reform your corp everything you get decced. Still though, sounds like a great plan. Good job !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Ludi Burek
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#259 - 2012-08-17 02:11:45 UTC
This change will provide new brilliant ways of getting daft people into becoming valid targets. As always Lol

Having said that, I am not ignoring the valid game plays that this change would nerf. Just saying that all is not lost Big smile
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#260 - 2012-08-17 02:14:08 UTC
Don't forget it's also a huge buff to complacency, stupidity, and ignorance.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)