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My point here is that skills becoming irrelevant when new alternatives that achieve the same thing is not new in EVE. The goal in the example being damage application...and not as you presume correlating skills of one of the methods to the damage output. Here the heavy drone is an NPC reprocessing and the Sentry drone is mobile reprocessing at a POS. There is no mismatch in analogy if you look at it like this.

On the second point, i am glad you agree somewhat. If skills are ever to be affect efficiency, then it should be to the upside, not the downside. What I mean by this is that a no skilled user of mobile refining should still outperform a skilled one using an NPC station.

And this is where we might disagree as there have been heated arguments over the fact that an untrained character can get better results using a POS. Proponents of skills affecting mobile refinery seem to argue that their superior skills should negate this advantage of using as POS.

The 3rd point is kind of easy to answer. When I mine with my alts I have a freighter "on the job" with the fleet. Once it is loaded it now jumps 1 or two systems to a station it can later refine and compress to modules with minimal to no loss. With the new system, it in the end becomes much easier for a mining fleet.

With some standing preparations, you can simply anchor a temporary small POS in the system you are mining in. Then the hauler directly moves to it and does compression. After the mining stops, the compressed ore and the pos go back into the hauler. And off you go to where you need to sell or refine.

With this in mind, the proposition of having to haul a lot just to use compression is false. Mining corporations can do the effort and create a sister corporation that owns the POS and hauler(s), while being in fleet to accept the ore. This gives solid control and keeps the miners themselves safe from a war dec. The one thing at risk from a war-dec, is the corporation doing the POS and hauling.

It is not 100% safe, but it requires some effort and organisation to get close. Heavily industrialized systems might not be available for mining like this, but many more will become available and have better ore supplies anyway. The scale of logistics of moving all that ore to point of sale or reprocessing is now very much reduced thanks to on the spot compression the changes make available.

In the end the availability of POS based compression will bring us less hauling, not more!

Let me fix this for you: Less volume == more stuff in your ship == more value in your ship == more risk and prerequisites == potentially more cost

If I go with your other proposal: a POS is 2k m³ and a Refining and/or Compression module is very likely to be 4k m³, plus fuel and your Blockade Runner, which is of course fitted for tank and not cargo space, is full... Which means a small scale producer can still not do everything, let alone more, and can do it only in more time.

There you go.

Your are an artist of twisting words...or just plain ignorant.
A blockader runner is the safest form for of transport an industrialist can use.

A blockade runner uses cloak, speed and hit buffer to be safe, not a silly tank. All rigs and low slots are used for cargo expansion when hauling. Also a blockade runner does not transport POS gear, I never wrote it does, it is a fantasy of your own creation. Which makes your post obsolete really.

Also a small scale producer is NOT a miner, he produces and gets ore and minerals from market. Which thanks to compression a blockade runner can now transport. He just does need good reprocessing skills for compressed veld /scordite and an implant. If he chooses to mine a bit locally (which is not wise), stick to veld and scordite. Easy to get related skills up to level 5 and you need them anyway to exploit the handy compact form of the same ores. Minerals other then tritanium and pyrite are compact enough as it is and do not pose a transport hurdle.

If your situated well, just buying compressed ores in the station you produce might do do trick. You just have to pay slightly more then you do if you buy from Jita and transport yourself.

And do not forget, CCP wants to see specialization and co-operation in the manufacturing chain. Not a lone dweller trying to do everything himself inefficiently and then cry about it on forums that it is unfair he is small and they are big!

And it fails. A freighter going to a pos from a station and back, in highsec, is invulnerable. That's why this should be a station activity: because putting it in a pos adds a gigantic amount of human misery that has no benefit. You can't gank the freighter because he just docks up if he's agressed. You can't drag bubble or anything in highsec that would let you catch someone freightering. You can't blow up the pos for profit because compression is instant: the freighter just mashes it then returns with the compressed ore.

I am all for situations that create more possibility for human interaction. POS compression does not. It just adds pointless busywork that does not create more human interaction. It can't even create human interaction by subcontracting: you must do it yourself because you can't subcontract hauling to a POS.

All of this was explained in my post.

Seriously, why don't you donate your account and all stuffs to me? You keep coming with some stupid taken out of context text after another. Seemingly hoping i will streamline all of your industry for you!

Producer != Miner

Do not take industry tactics i wrote for miners and present them as I wrote them for production and then act like I am high! On top of this you haven't read a word i written, at least not comprehensibly anyway.

If you loose slightly on refine for titanium and pyrite, it will not affect the production cost to the extent a POS is required to be competitive. The other minerals do not take up nearly as much space and can be shipped in refined form (refined by someone else).

In short your insulting!

Basically saying, this is just another step in the war against carebears. Plain and simple.

CCP's way of saying, if you want to enjoy anything, get with the program.

lol wut? Do you have any idea how much a Large POS costs?

http://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=12235

That's 254M each.

At your purported price, the implant would cost 50.8B isk, or about as much as a supercarrier or AT first prize ship.

Hmm.... you aren't by any chance in the market for a 4% refining implant are you? Because I've got a couple Id like to sell.

On another note, having compression at a station would render useless the ability to anchor compression arrays in all NPC space.

While it's true you can't contract to a POS, nor would I expect a single character trying to acquire the minerals for a cap ship to do all that hauling alone, you can sell raw ore and then buy compressed ore on the market, which is the method I would recommend. Or you can even put up exchange contracts selling raw ore and some isk in exchange for compressed ore.

he's talking the outpost upgrade not the impant dude which makes him correct, a fully upgraded minmatar t3 outpost costs about 60b to deploy and upgrade

I like most of the proposed changes to refining, but the are a couple things I don't like when it comes to the POS reprocessing arrays:

1.POS reprocessor arrays seem too powerful to me.

The combination of greater efficiency and getting perfect refines regardless of skill is just too over powered to me. If skills were applied to POS refines I could possibly, grudgingly, live with the 52%/54% efficiencies, but not when it's automatic perfect skills. So I think some sort of adjustment is needed to scale them back but still make them better than a standard station.

I'd like to see the reprocessing arrays stepped back to 50%/52%. This would be enough to still make them better but not overwhelmingly better. I'd also like to see them take skills into account too.

2. cost of POS reprocessor vs. outpost upgrades

When comparing the base efficiencies of reprocessing at a POS with the efficiencies of the outpost upgrades (as proposed in the deb blog), reprocessing at the POS is better until you get an outpost upgraded to the 2nd tier. The cost of upgrading an outpost to the second tier is in the range of 12 billion isk which, when compared to the 50 million isk price tag of a POS reprocessing array, is pretty extreme (about 250x greater). I'm not a fan of that huge price jump but no idea what could be done about it.

As above, it'd be more acceptable if the POS reprocessors took skills into account and were reduced to 50%/52% base efficiency. I'm fine with them being competitive with the base outposts and first tier upgrades, but beyond that the cost of getting additional tiers is just too big for the outposts with refinery upgrades to not be superior.

So yet another aspect of what was part of the Eve "SandBox" having play style dictated by developers rather than players.

The best thing about eve was that you didn't need to fit into everyone else's play style. The game lent itself towards everyone having a choice and whether you played solo or in an alliance of 10,000 you could still carve a niche for yourself and play the game the way you wanted.

Pretty much all recent changes have been pushing the sandbox element of Eve further and further off the map.

"Specialization" ?? Yes CCP want players to specialize in refining, 100+ days of training, a month or two running missions for standings and a +4 implant.
Oh hang on they are introducing a pos module that doesn't take skills into account - where is the incentive to specialize when you can do the same with "Anchoring 3" (12 hours training) and a pos module?
If CCP was serious about Refining / Reprocessing Specialization they would not allow a no skills required module to be placed in Empire space pos's.