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Dev Blog: Reprocess all the things!

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Scilent Enigma
Vae Victis Inc.
#1281 - 2014-03-22 17:46:43 UTC
So basically, all of the people who wants to do something more interesting with the ores they mine will be shafted bigtime by this change.. Mine, sell, mine, sell... Don't think, don't dream, just mine, sell.. don't bother with production, don't bother with refining, just mine, sell, mine, sell... Gee.. way to make S&I more interesting... You go CCP...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1282 - 2014-03-22 17:58:02 UTC
Scilent Enigma wrote:
So basically, all of the people who wants to do something more interesting with the ores they mine will be shafted bigtime by this change.. Mine, sell, mine, sell... Don't think, don't dream, just mine, sell.. don't bother with production, don't bother with refining, just mine, sell, mine, sell... Gee.. way to make S&I more interesting... You go CCP...


Production wont change.
Scilent Enigma
Vae Victis Inc.
#1283 - 2014-03-22 18:02:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Production wont change.


It's the progression from mining to production I'm concerned about, this is a disincentive for miners to experiment with production as they will have a huge ammount of hoops to jump through to even begin being profitable.. But then again, time will tell how this will play out. I might be wrong, at least I hope so.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1284 - 2014-03-22 18:13:26 UTC
Scilent Enigma wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Production wont change.


It's the progression from mining to production I'm concerned about, this is a disincentive for miners to experiment with production as they will have a huge ammount of hoops to jump through to even begin being profitable.. But then again, time will tell how this will play out. I might be wrong, at least I hope so.


You are.

Its good that the people willing to put in the effort will be getting greater rewards than those who arnt.
Emuar
Vak'Atioth War Veterans
#1285 - 2014-03-22 18:14:35 UTC
Scilent Enigma wrote:
So basically, all of the people who wants to do something more interesting with the ores they mine will be shafted bigtime by this change.. Mine, sell, mine, sell... Don't think, don't dream, just mine, sell.. don't bother with production, don't bother with refining, just mine, sell, mine, sell... Gee.. way to make S&I more interesting... You go CCP...


you get it correct, all miners from high sec, low sec, npc null and wh must mine and sell or mine, compress and sell if they don't have access to outpost. then they will buy minerals from market. i doubt null cartels have ability to buy all produced ore and ore price will fall (to similar level as perfect high sec refine) so even more profit to sov owners.

The mind is a constant. Unfortunately the number of people increases every year....
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#1286 - 2014-03-22 18:55:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
While the blog was not as clear as many may have wanted it to be. It was missing critical bits of information right at press release which was quickly fixed. The blog needed a one panel diagram that showed that isk generation would remain the same.

What industry as a whole is missing is a way to see hard to relate to information like where different ores can be found and the different refine rates. The easiest location for this would be on the world map.

A way to tell what the max refine is at a particular location for a type of item would also be a great tool for the new players that are just starting out. A vertical line on the rate bar would be the easiest solution in my eyes.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1287 - 2014-03-22 18:57:39 UTC
Alas, I was away on a trip and didn't get to see this beautiful thread until it was already 71 pages long and long since melting down. Lovely change and so many implications. Delicious

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1288 - 2014-03-22 18:59:22 UTC
Emuar wrote:
Scilent Enigma wrote:
So basically, all of the people who wants to do something more interesting with the ores they mine will be shafted bigtime by this change.. Mine, sell, mine, sell... Don't think, don't dream, just mine, sell.. don't bother with production, don't bother with refining, just mine, sell, mine, sell... Gee.. way to make S&I more interesting... You go CCP...


you get it correct, all miners from high sec, low sec, npc null and wh must mine and sell or mine, compress and sell if they don't have access to outpost. then they will buy minerals from market. i doubt null cartels have ability to buy all produced ore and ore price will fall (to similar level as perfect high sec refine) so even more profit to sov owners.


do you seriously believe that people are going to buy raw ore, refine it in null and ship minerals back to highsec ?What?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1289 - 2014-03-22 19:08:47 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Emuar wrote:
Scilent Enigma wrote:
So basically, all of the people who wants to do something more interesting with the ores they mine will be shafted bigtime by this change.. Mine, sell, mine, sell... Don't think, don't dream, just mine, sell.. don't bother with production, don't bother with refining, just mine, sell, mine, sell... Gee.. way to make S&I more interesting... You go CCP...


you get it correct, all miners from high sec, low sec, npc null and wh must mine and sell or mine, compress and sell if they don't have access to outpost. then they will buy minerals from market. i doubt null cartels have ability to buy all produced ore and ore price will fall (to similar level as perfect high sec refine) so even more profit to sov owners.


do you seriously believe that people are going to buy raw ore, refine it in null and ship minerals back to highsec ?What?


Part is probably going to do that. The others import the ores to the out post, refine it, build stuff and bring the stuff to the markets. All according to plan. \o/

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1290 - 2014-03-22 19:09:39 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We have 67 pages of people raging over miners getting a 20% reward for taking on risks. There is a ragenought in GD over mission runners getting a 3.7% reduction in their earnings.

Every time there is talk of a buff to income outside of highsec the bears explode in rage.


And there you are again with your ISK/hour mentality. There doesn't need to be a buff to income, you can get 15M+ ticks in belts as it is, with proper chaining. What all activities need are a buff in how interesting they are, how fun they are to do, how good you have to be at thinking around corners in some instances and how engaging they are. Long things short: A complete replacement of the current PVE system with new mechanics, new ways to do it, new content, new challenges. It of course requires a lot of coding, but judging by the lack of any information on this matter it's something that CCP doesn't seem to consider at all.


So if is not about isk/h why do you care about the change with reproc rates then if you are only belt ratting because you enjoy it? If you belt rat because you enjoy it then the isk or proc rate shouldn't matter to you? I am lost here are we arguing about isk/ hour or not?
Inspiration
#1291 - 2014-03-22 19:10:08 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Alas, I was away on a trip and didn't get to see this beautiful thread until it was already 71 pages long and long since melting down. Lovely change and so many implications. Delicious


Just those comments, coming form you, might spawn another 70 pages ;)

I agree, interesting things can happen with this profit driven and essential part of the industry chain being partially exposed to PvP (as it should have been a long time ago).

I am serious!

Draekas Darkwater
Frank Exchange of Views
#1292 - 2014-03-22 19:12:14 UTC
I like it.

The only comment I would make would be to make refining at POSs even more attractive, even more so than in outposts. As it stands, POSs are more vulnerable than outposts are and also have a fuel cost to them as well. So while it might be worth tacking a refinery onto a POS you already have set up that has extra grid/cpu to fit one, I can't say how it'd be worth it to setup a POS to specifically support mining.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1293 - 2014-03-22 19:22:27 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
Emuar wrote:
Scilent Enigma wrote:
So basically, all of the people who wants to do something more interesting with the ores they mine will be shafted bigtime by this change.. Mine, sell, mine, sell... Don't think, don't dream, just mine, sell.. don't bother with production, don't bother with refining, just mine, sell, mine, sell... Gee.. way to make S&I more interesting... You go CCP...


you get it correct, all miners from high sec, low sec, npc null and wh must mine and sell or mine, compress and sell if they don't have access to outpost. then they will buy minerals from market. i doubt null cartels have ability to buy all produced ore and ore price will fall (to similar level as perfect high sec refine) so even more profit to sov owners.


do you seriously believe that people are going to buy raw ore, refine it in null and ship minerals back to highsec ?What?

I'm planning to do just that, if the prices are right.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1294 - 2014-03-22 19:47:42 UTC
did you know there is a reason people currently use modules to compress minerals ? it has to do something with m³
Inspiration
#1295 - 2014-03-22 20:06:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
My earlier mentioned idea of a limited number of reprocessing slots and making reprocessing take time (just as research & manufacturing) would mean any scheme of moving lots of ore to one to the best refining place would never be worth it.

I remain hopeful this will still get introduced at a later date. As I said before, they could have gone further and probably should have. But it likely would have taken more rewriting and balancing then these easy, mostly attribute, changes.

I am serious!

Emuar
Vak'Atioth War Veterans
#1296 - 2014-03-22 20:09:53 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
did you know there is a reason people currently use modules to compress minerals ? it has to do something with m³


first CCP planing to add new pos mod for ore compression and that new ore compression seems - that will be (quote from dev blog):

" With the max reprocessing rate for any item that is not ore or ice dropping to 55%(with Scrapmetal Processing trained at 5), we needed to find other ways to favor compression or else null-security industry would simply stop functioning.

The solution is to improve compression ratios from Rorqual ore blueprints by increasing their outputs by 38.1% (due to the reprocessing changes above) while tweaking the compressed ore volumes to make it competitive with current modules like the 425mm Railgun I for instance. Exact figures on compression changes available below:"

i highlighted it for you.
you must know that high end ore can come not only from sov space. Npc null, wh will sell their compressed ore if price will be higher than they will get from refined minerals (they can't get perfect possible refine) do you get point?

The mind is a constant. Unfortunately the number of people increases every year....
Born2beSlut
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1297 - 2014-03-22 21:00:47 UTC
Having better refining yields in null sec than high sec destroys competition and forces serious industrialists to join null sec alliances in order to maintain their profit margin .
Also worst refining yields will hurt mission running income , will hurt salvaging corporations and will generate less tritanium etc tritanium --->ships will become more expensive .
I dont really know whats the ratio mining asteroids for tritanium vs refining loot for tritanium so i dont really know where the market will balance .
Emuar
Vak'Atioth War Veterans
#1298 - 2014-03-22 22:01:23 UTC
Born2beSlut wrote:
Having better refining yields in null sec than high sec destroys competition and forces serious industrialists to join null sec alliances in order to maintain their profit margin .
Also worst refining yields will hurt mission running income , will hurt salvaging corporations and will generate less tritanium etc tritanium --->ships will become more expensive .
I dont really know whats the ratio mining asteroids for tritanium vs refining loot for tritanium so i dont really know where the market will balance .



a lot serious industrialists already in null and you can sell mods, ships for local residents with very nice profit (if you have access to stations).
"gun mining" nerf possibly is good decision - miners will benefit from it.

The mind is a constant. Unfortunately the number of people increases every year....
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1299 - 2014-03-22 22:36:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
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Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1300 - 2014-03-23 00:59:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
Emuar wrote:
Gilbaron wrote:
did you know there is a reason people currently use modules to compress minerals ? it has to do something with m³


first CCP planing to add new pos mod for ore compression and that new ore compression seems - that will be (quote from dev blog):

" With the max reprocessing rate for any item that is not ore or ice dropping to 55%(with Scrapmetal Processing trained at 5), we needed to find other ways to favor compression or else null-security industry would simply stop functioning.

The solution is to improve compression ratios from Rorqual ore blueprints by increasing their outputs by 38.1% (due to the reprocessing changes above) while tweaking the compressed ore volumes to make it competitive with current modules like the 425mm Railgun I for instance. Exact figures on compression changes available below:"

i highlighted it for you.
you must know that high end ore can come not only from sov space. Npc null, wh will sell their compressed ore if price will be higher than they will get from refined minerals (they can't get perfect possible refine) do you get point?


i was talking to the guy who wanted to set up a refinery in nullsec in order to ship minerals back to highsec.

Quote:
a lot serious industrialists already in null and you can sell mods, ships for local residents with very nice profit (if you have access to stations).


simply not true. mods come from jita. ever ship that is not a battlecruiser or bigger comes from jita. battleships and battlecruisers sometimes are made locally. with minerals from jita.

lots of traders ? yes. lots of industrialists ? nope. in the few cases where it actually happens it's for jita. exceptions are caps, supercaps and a few battlecruisers and battleships. maybe some production from T2 BPOs. but that's rare