These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP and where Incarna, Ambulation, Walking in stations? !

First post
Author
Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#101 - 2014-01-20 21:23:44 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:

It worked out well for you., you must have posed it though. Don't you identify with your character in game though? Does your character mean anything to you at all?


I wouldn't say that. I found it annoying to the point the first time i just didn't bother joining. I would have played eve a good 3-4 months sooner without it.

I don't want to wait 5 min each time i undock for the "walk down the hall and hop in your pod" animation. I don't want to have some crappy virtual bar where... where nothing really going to happen since we all do interact with chat channels, voice coms etc. Its like trying to force the meta game to be in game. It won't work. So then is 99% cosmetic. At which point what is the point.

However before you all flame away, My requirement is that it is not *mandatory*. If you want to wait 5min every time you undock, or 10 min to find something in the market because you like second life in space, be my guest. Just don't make me do it.


Who the hell ever said you had to? Eve takes time. Ship spinning is boring and pacing in a room isn't any better. I want a better distraction than neurotically checking things or tabing out. I just want them to finish what they started. Let us go to bars or casinos or what ever. Let us talk to the dust bunnies in person. Give us a distraction from pacing or spinning...
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#102 - 2014-01-21 00:30:12 UTC
Wis, ironically might save dust if we can actually meet and hire dust bunnies or watch their matches from the position of a map table. Just like atmospheric flight might help dust if we could strafe the battlefield or watch it from orbit providing intel.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#103 - 2014-01-21 00:44:01 UTC
Burning Bob wrote:

.... Ship spinning is boring and pacing in a room isn't any better. I want a better distraction than neurotically checking things or tabing out. I just want them to finish what they started. Let us go to bars or casinos or what ever. Let us talk to the dust bunnies in person. Give us a distraction from pacing or spinning...

If your spending a lots of time spinning ships and just generally logged in doing nothing but waiting for skill ques. Your doing it wrong.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#104 - 2014-01-21 01:55:01 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Burning Bob wrote:

.... Ship spinning is boring and pacing in a room isn't any better. I want a better distraction than neurotically checking things or tabing out. I just want them to finish what they started. Let us go to bars or casinos or what ever. Let us talk to the dust bunnies in person. Give us a distraction from pacing or spinning...

If your spending a lots of time spinning ships and just generally logged in doing nothing but waiting for skill ques. Your doing it wrong.


It can safely be said that there are times when it is disadvantageous - or even forbidden by corp/alliance policy - to undock rather than stay in a station.

I don't know what those times are since I don't ever do that, but I've heard rumors and stories.
Atuesuel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2014-01-21 03:48:44 UTC
Kabaos wrote:
Promises : https://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php/Walking_in_stations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzZRRPPw_QE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzy7DG8VR2s

Intresting concept :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_JteBc01fA

I will not repeat, and so there are lots of topics already about good Incarna.
Working : http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Myrkala/Incarna_Wallpaper1280x1024.jpg

I want to see the volumetric Sci-Fi, but not only space and ships.


Here's my suggestion poll http://www.rupoll.com/lcavvutysp.html


I would sugest buying this game

you can all ready walk in a hanger and its still just an alpha

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game
Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#106 - 2014-01-21 13:49:19 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Burning Bob wrote:

.... Ship spinning is boring and pacing in a room isn't any better. I want a better distraction than neurotically checking things or tabing out. I just want them to finish what they started. Let us go to bars or casinos or what ever. Let us talk to the dust bunnies in person. Give us a distraction from pacing or spinning...

If your spending a lots of time spinning ships and just generally logged in doing nothing but waiting for skill ques. Your doing it wrong.

You've obviously never been in a 0.0 corp. There are times when you can't do anything but wait in station, some times for hours at a time.

Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Wis, ironically might save dust if we can actually meet and hire dust bunnies or watch their matches from the position of a map table. Just like atmospheric flight might help dust if we could strafe the battlefield or watch it from orbit providing intel.


I wouldn't mind watching matches at a bar and placing bets on the bunnies. I don't know about atmospheric flight though. Not because I don't like the idea but because we can't control the ships beyond mouse clicks.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#107 - 2014-01-21 23:09:50 UTC
I'm in a WH corp and spend time in nullsec. When i need to wait. I do something in RL. WiS is hardly a fix for waiting for something to happen. Esp if it has no meaning. Really how is alt-tabbing to second life a problem anyway? How many games should eve be?

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#108 - 2014-01-22 01:28:58 UTC
Some time ago, back when the captains quarters first appeared, there was a big commotion about things which were not directly connected to walking in stations.

Walking in stations, with the captains quarters being released as the default environment, was the cause of some outcry at the same time as rumors about aur transactions.

The Aur side, which was the actual problem, implied that genuine advantages could be bought. This never actually took place, but the rumor mill cranked it out because of some supposed office memos.

Now, because these had the bad luck of being at the same time, they splashed bad mojo on each other. Many of the WoD haters claimed funds from EVE were being misspent, and WiS was the wasted effect of that.

This was a rather pathetic level of confusion, since:
A: The funds EVE earns belongs to CCP
B: The normal devs never stopped working on the game
C: Assuming devs working on WiS could have been retasked for the regular game, assumed a staggering amount. Devs on this level tend to be specialized, and this was like expecting a plumber to be able to fix your car by comparison.

But then, perception and reality only match where it is convenient, as any marketing person can point out.

The truth is, EVE players have nothing to lose if WiS is developed. The regular support devs won't be interrupted fixing bugs, since they don't get involved with things like this.
Done correctly, it will be like captains quarters. A choice made while docked, and not something impacting game play outside of stations.

And never the default load in setting.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#109 - 2014-01-22 09:31:44 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

C: Assuming devs working on WiS could have been retasked for the regular game, assumed a staggering amount. Devs on this level tend to be specialized, and this was like expecting a plumber to be able to fix your car by comparison.

Clearly you know nothing about programming. It is nothing like that "specialized" and when it comes to maintaining code you typically work on any code that has the bugs. You don't have "fields" within programming and dev work.

I have worked for telecos, banks, game companies, sat nav companies done contract work in just about every area. I have needed to do graphics work, fairly advanced math, boring business logic applications, billing systems, switching code, etc.

I am pretty typical for a developer with the exception that i have some education in advance math and physics.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Cypherdog
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2014-01-22 11:06:19 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

The truth is, EVE players have nothing to lose if WiS is developed. The regular support devs won't be interrupted fixing bugs, since they don't get involved with things like this.
Done correctly, it will be like captains quarters. A choice made while docked, and not something impacting game play outside of stations.
And never the default load in setting.

I couldn't agree more. We have nothing to loose or fear from this. Actually, I suspect that quite a few of those who were involved in the Jita protests are now regretting what they did because they stopped this game from reaching it's full potential and the vision CCP had for it. Not to mention the people who lost their jobs. Their intransigence will prove costly, because that gap EVE was going to fill, is going to be used by Star Citizen and future Space Sims to snatch a big chunk of players. CCP will feel the hit, but I doubt they'll be bothered. Perhaps they believe to be the undisputed perpetual emperors of Space games.
marVLs
#111 - 2014-01-22 12:10:24 UTC
Well You know, cool things are only for drunk dudes on Fanfest not for development Lol

























































Sad
Derka McDerk
soldiers.fi
#112 - 2014-01-22 14:15:17 UTC
I for one am looking forward greatly to WIS getting more love. The atmospheric flight video was also new to me. I'm still a rather new player so I have missed a lot of the drama and what not surrounding the initial release of WIS etc, but I think its high time to invest time in the development of these awesome features again, which then would help create a better feel of immersion.

If I'm not totally wrong EVE has been described as a "reality". Being able to exist in the world as something more than a mere spaceship is a big deal. Think about the in-station game, the political and economical possibilities etc.

As for the atmospheric flight, it would again increase the immersion factor. Currently I find it rather dumb that I can fly straight into a planet/moon and just go straight through it. It totally destroys immersion.

There are no doubt issues in the game that need resolving. Many of the old systems that need reworking etc. My greatest hopes and expectations for the game however are still improved WIS and after seeing the atmospheric flight video that as well.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#113 - 2014-01-22 15:43:31 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

C: Assuming devs working on WiS could have been retasked for the regular game, assumed a staggering amount. Devs on this level tend to be specialized, and this was like expecting a plumber to be able to fix your car by comparison.

Clearly you know nothing about programming. It is nothing like that "specialized" and when it comes to maintaining code you typically work on any code that has the bugs. You don't have "fields" within programming and dev work.

I have worked for telecos, banks, game companies, sat nav companies done contract work in just about every area. I have needed to do graphics work, fairly advanced math, boring business logic applications, billing systems, switching code, etc.

I am pretty typical for a developer with the exception that i have some education in advance math and physics.

Wrong. Your suggestion that I must lack awareness in this area, therefore meaning my argument is worthless, falls utterly flat.

I am the primary database admin for a company, where the data, manipulation of such, and programming to utilize it, are the primary functions of this company.

The devs who work bug fixes are familiar with the coding of this game. They know where to look, what to check, and quite often have a pretty good idea what needs to be tweaked to fix issues. Without this experience with the game they already have, they would be less effective, and counterproductive to switch out with anyone lacking this same experience.

Now, if we make the leap that everyone has the exact same skill set, (ridiculous, but sure, let's play that game here), this experience divide by itself is more than enough to isolate the current dev pool from anyone not sharing this experience with previous game elements.

Now, WiS doesn't use this code. Familiarity with it simply is not helpful in a meaningful and significant way.
Different graphic engine functions are used in this other environment, different variables affect interaction, heck, beyond the name of the characters, they have trivial levels of common details.

Swapping devs from the bug-fixing pool and the WiS pool would be a setback to BOTH teams, making them effectively specialized.
Notorious Fellon
#114 - 2014-01-22 16:37:31 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

C: Assuming devs working on WiS could have been retasked for the regular game, assumed a staggering amount. Devs on this level tend to be specialized, and this was like expecting a plumber to be able to fix your car by comparison.

Clearly you know nothing about programming. It is nothing like that "specialized" and when it comes to maintaining code you typically work on any code that has the bugs. You don't have "fields" within programming and dev work.

I have worked for telecos, banks, game companies, sat nav companies done contract work in just about every area. I have needed to do graphics work, fairly advanced math, boring business logic applications, billing systems, switching code, etc.

I am pretty typical for a developer with the exception that i have some education in advance math and physics.

Wrong. Your suggestion that I must lack awareness in this area, therefore meaning my argument is worthless, falls utterly flat.

I am the primary database admin for a company, where the data, manipulation of such, and programming to utilize it, are the primary functions of this company.

The devs who work bug fixes are familiar with the coding of this game. They know where to look, what to check, and quite often have a pretty good idea what needs to be tweaked to fix issues. Without this experience with the game they already have, they would be less effective, and counterproductive to switch out with anyone lacking this same experience.

Now, if we make the leap that everyone has the exact same skill set, (ridiculous, but sure, let's play that game here), this experience divide by itself is more than enough to isolate the current dev pool from anyone not sharing this experience with previous game elements.

Now, WiS doesn't use this code. Familiarity with it simply is not helpful in a meaningful and significant way.
Different graphic engine functions are used in this other environment, different variables affect interaction, heck, beyond the name of the characters, they have trivial levels of common details.

Swapping devs from the bug-fixing pool and the WiS pool would be a setback to BOTH teams, making them effectively specialized.



Both of you presented extremes and both are ridiculous.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#115 - 2014-01-22 16:52:43 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
Both of you presented extremes and both are ridiculous.

There is nothing extreme in suggesting experience has value.

Nor is defending my opinion as being meaningful, as I do have experience in areas similar enough to be significant.

Quite simply, many fields become specialized when the depth reaches a point where a single person cannot realistically learn the details involved in every aspect of it.
Programming is no different, and suggesting that those who work on these projects can be swapped out like mass produced clones is disingenuous.
Burning Bob
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#116 - 2014-01-24 04:29:21 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Notorious Fellon wrote:
Both of you presented extremes and both are ridiculous.

There is nothing extreme in suggesting experience has value.

Nor is defending my opinion as being meaningful, as I do have experience in areas similar enough to be significant.

Quite simply, many fields become specialized when the depth reaches a point where a single person cannot realistically learn the details involved in every aspect of it.
Programming is no different, and suggesting that those who work on these projects can be swapped out like mass produced clones is disingenuous.

Not to mention that different engines have different coding. While you may know Cryengine like the back of your hand, you may know nothing about the Unreal engine. Plus dumping unfamiliar people into a project often mucks up the program worse than just using the few people you have. Most pilots either don't care or want WiS. mostly leaning toward don't care either way. The protest in no way was toward WiS. It was an appropriate over reaction to even a hint of PTW. I'm sure players wouldn't mind CCP adding more station stuff provided it doesn't take over an expansion. Since its not part of major game play it needs to stay on the sidelines.
Eveliy
Coronize
#117 - 2014-01-24 11:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Eveliy
I need to agree with Nikk Narrel.

I am a software engineer and specialization becomes a very important factor in times of agile development and techniques like scrum. Those techniques often define that every team member needs to be a specialist and only part-time generalist.
I do, however, have to admit that I don't know what development methods CCP uses.
If they use very specialized staff they are indeed limited.


to topic:

I do not know how far CCP has gone with Incarna regarding code. They could only have done the client side which would mean that only displaying the quarters and everything regarding connection to the server via the interfaces of the gadgets and displays in the quarter and the controls they provide has been done (also client side as they already existed before).
If that's the case there is no server-side tracking of a player's positions and actions in station which would be the monster part of the work. (I know that all the graphics and vfx stuff will also consume a lot of time)
I'm pretty sure that they have something like basic station layouts and all that graphics stuff lieing around on their internal asset servers (at least they had some for the demo a few years ago) but that doesn't help at all in this case.


personal opinion:
If they find the time and resources to go on with WiS development I wouldn't mind. Already waiting for a very long time and aware that I will have to wait for even longer.


@Burning Bob

It doesn't take too long to learn the framework or API an engine provides regarding the coding.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#118 - 2014-01-24 11:47:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
I Never was a big Fan of WIS, simply because i fail to see why we need cosy and blinky ingame Facebook while Space is still disturbing empty and lifeless. (Beyond Space like emptiness of course)

Edit: I would rather ask "Why is there still no comets, real Asteroid Belts in Space or why do we have over 5000+ Systems with only one Sun or why do we have still no physics or why cant we not use structures to hide and cover?"
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#119 - 2014-01-25 14:17:19 UTC
So your argument that programers are very specialized, so it cost nothing for EVE online to be generic? As in second life in space as well as space combat game.

A little 101 economics. Everything has an opportunity cost. Spending money on specialized developer's for your second life clone is money not spent on developers for other parts of eve.

Your argument that because developers are so specialized it cost nothing is stupid. Its more expensive and an even bigger waste of money since this is now a bunch of workers who can never work on the core game if needed.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#120 - 2014-01-25 15:08:31 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
So your argument that programers are very specialized, so it cost nothing for EVE online to be generic? As in second life in space as well as space combat game.

A little 101 economics. Everything has an opportunity cost. Spending money on specialized developer's for your second life clone is money not spent on developers for other parts of eve.

Your argument that because developers are so specialized it cost nothing is stupid. Its more expensive and an even bigger waste of money since this is now a bunch of workers who can never work on the core game if needed.

Delt0r, you are drifting off topic here.

I am saying two things.

First, the developers who fix bugs get better with each task, since they have the opportunity to learn details about the coding which can make future tweaks easier with similar issues. Same logic that shows a person stops needing a map and directions once they are familiar with an area when traveling.

Second, you approach this from a general practitioner view, where everyone knows a little about everything, and needs to research specific details when necessary. A specialized coder still may know a little about everything, but they have already researched and learned about one aspect more in depth, giving them an advantage dealing with this area.

It is not always practical to learn everything about all possible aspects, as such training and experience is simply not necessary in many applications, and more cost effective to specialize with as a result.