These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Discussion thread about WiS

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#421 - 2012-07-16 17:11:01 UTC
new devblog about renaming missiles (again) and implants on market .. but not the promised WiS dev blog still ... Roll This is going to be the longest Soon (tm) in the history of Soon (tm)s Lol
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#422 - 2012-07-16 19:04:03 UTC
Well the deve blogs are starting to get posted at least

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#423 - 2012-07-16 20:41:24 UTC
Half of CCP were on holiday for the last couple of weeks, hence no dev blogs.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#424 - 2012-07-16 21:24:16 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Agreed. People have wanted to set foot in public spaces for so long and socialize with other pilots. Corporate HQ's we can traverse in. Bars where we can order a Gin & Tonic or the most disgusting Minmatar beer they make and sit down with old mates from years back.

I'm still baffled by the idea that pretend-sitting in a pretend-bar and pretend-drinking with old corp mates has any appeal whatsoever. What are you going to do 2 minutes in after the novelty of your avatar being in the same room as someone else's avatar has worn off and you're left with a gameplay-vacuum room and your two characters staring blankly at each other? "Hey Scatim, this pretend-pub sure is boring now, lets undock and go suicide gank a hulk in catalysts or something."

I like the idea of socialising with other Eve players in a bar, but I do it by I going outside to an actual bar in real life for player meets or fanfest (seriously, go to fanfest and your local player meets, they're good fun). The idea of slapping avatar graphics onto a chat channel which already exists, adding pretend-beer, calling it 'socialising' and claiming that the resulting third-rate, watered-down, sub-Habbo Hotel experience somehow justifies the six years and millions of euros/dollars spent on WiS development is just bizarre.

Quote:
I'm not saying dungeons & dragons in space isn't welcome, but it's not necessarily the best content for WiS to be done right now. IMHO.

But instead of Dungeons and Dragons in space, you think the best content for WiS would be....IRC in space? Despite the fact that we already have all the IRC we could possibly need through the existing chat channels and all you're offering new is that they are linked to our character models?

You seem to think that avatar-based interaction is a goal in itself and that any old implementation will do as long as we get a few characters in a room together. It isn't, its a means to the end of providing Eve players with new forms of gameplay and if there's no gameplay, if there's nothing meaningful for us to do in there, then there's no point CCP wasting any more time on it. CCP themselves have, very belatedly, realised this for themselves, which is why the whole 'buy monocles and own a pretend-bar' has been scrapped as the rotten shark-induced management pipedream it was and the development team are now working on ways to make an actual game out of the mess that was Incarna.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#425 - 2012-07-16 23:50:21 UTC
going to a vertual bar is as effective as going to a real bar. just costs a lot more and you have a hang over in the morning.

for both real and fake social gatherings it is not the gathering its self it what you do at the gathering the make it meaningful or adds game play.

it would have been the activities that ccp would have added that would have added the game play, POKER for pink slips, multiplayer Slay. the actual buying and selling of unque custom goods.

These activies would have been like a "Social" PVP and something to react over.

BUT... from what little I heard these game play features would have been secondary to the Avitars, and fancy clothing. Making WIS well IRC... with avatars.

Now CCP is taking a different approach a SPY vs SPY (from mad comics back inthe day) Sci-fi dungeon exploration. It kicks starts the WIS in the right direction. But I hope they don't forget the social aspect of it. Needing to have have a party of players to work to gether in some shape or form.
Your Logi Guy - healing the group
Your Hauler - Able to carry the special loot
Your DPS - Combat Characters,
Your Hacker - To get into the location where a simple pistol to the lock won't work,
Your Look Outs- A rigger with cameral drone all over the place, and some minor sentry drones to let the crew know the other team is comeing
The guy on the ship providing external information
--, fending back the baddies as they dock.
-- or letting the away team that the hull is now coming alive with drones.
-- Telling the crew that he is having to move the ship to docking port.
--using the ships mega computer to analyze the information of the away crew who are stuck operating with only hand helds.

Allowing people to specialize in one role while others can equip for other roles.

For easyier mission 1 man can do everything.... if his suit has enough slots.

If all the dungeons can be completed by 1 person then the original aspect of social interaction will be lost.

I just see a parallel of WIS and Dust. and wonder it there will be a cross or an algamation of the two... with PS 5

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
nartela
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#426 - 2012-07-17 15:30:08 UTC
people underestimate just how much this would add to the game in a social and gameplay aspect, not to mention that the role players of eve would probabky have a ball.
they need to addd in features that are useful in the world of eve but are exclusive to wis.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#427 - 2012-07-17 19:32:45 UTC
nartela wrote:
people underestimate just how much this would add to the game in a social and gameplay aspect, not to mention that the role players of eve would probabky have't a ball.

Featureless gameplay-vacuums with pretty avatar graphics aren't what roleplayers want out of eve, and suggesting otherwise would be hideously patronising. Roleplayers aren't feeble minded sheep who will ooh and aah when you dangle avatars in front of their eyes and they won't be fooled by a WiS implementation that gives them nothing of consequence to do but sit in their pretend-bar and get pretend-drunk while wearing their monocles. In fact, since the whole point of roleplaying is constructing new scenarios and interactions from nothing but your imagination (and the occasional D20 roll), they're probably the group in Eve who benefit least from WiS development since they're already perfectly capable of conjuring up interactions in shady lowsec drinking holes with just a few posts in Intergalactic Summit.

What roleplayers, and most of the rest of us, want from Eve is meaningful, challenging, and interesting gameplay. "WiS for WiS' sake" is the same muddled 'jesus feature' thinking, without anything concrete to back it up, that caused last summer's Incarna disaster and which CCP have thankfully consigned to the bad ideas bucket.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#428 - 2012-07-17 19:53:08 UTC
Provided that CCP just has begun rethinking WiS without as much as asking the players, all those points about role/social/ "meaningful" (for who?) WiS gameplay are moot.

What is clear is that WiS will be what CCP wants, not what the players want; and in that sense, nothing has changed since last year. Nobody asked us, and now we are being offered to pick between dungeon raiding or nothing.

As i said three months ago:

Quote:
As for the prototyping job, it's currenlty non-shareable and pretty much looks like dungeon raiding, a kind of PvE gameplay uncommon in EVE. The stated goal is to develop gameplay first, then develop WiS itself.

This is done, presumedly, on the assumption that WiS would fail for lacking gameplay content, despite the fact that many players took at face value the "social gameplay" implied for Incarna, plus the promise of further gameplay later.


And here we are. They managed to turn dungeon raiding into multiplayer PvP, hooray. But still is NOT what kept people hoping for Ambulation/WiS all those years before.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#429 - 2012-07-17 21:57:09 UTC
nartela wrote:
people underestimate just how much this would add to the game in a social and gameplay aspect, not to mention that the role players of eve would probabky have a ball.
they need to addd in features that are useful in the world of eve but are exclusive to wis.


I completely agree. Just look at how successful the Sims (and I hate to mention the dreaded Second Life) has been over the last decade, The Sims really got the whole customization and "fun things you can do" down perfectly but has always struggled with the online transition which to me would be its biggest selling point if done correctly. I think part of the issue is that die hard Sims fans and Eve players don't necessarily overlap so requiring anything in the WiS environment would be a horrible idea.

As for me I would love to build a mansion complete with a much bigger than current television/theater, and a full out audio system. It would be nice to swap out the default couch and get a nice large bed. Also that can of Quafe sitting there should get switched with a nice bottle of campaign, and that is just the start for my CQ ideas.

I don't expect to see hot tub parties or pet cats running around, but there are many fun Sims feature that were enough to support a line of games. Even the much more limited Sony PS Home has been able to keep people interested. The idea of keeping the WiS specific stuff FTP is also a great one that resurfaces every so often.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#430 - 2012-07-17 22:17:57 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Provided that CCP just has begun rethinking WiS without as much as asking the players, all those points about role/social/ "meaningful" (for who?) WiS gameplay are moot.

What is clear is that WiS will be what CCP wants, not what the players want; and in that sense, nothing has changed since last year. Nobody asked us, and now we are being offered to pick between dungeon raiding or nothing.

As i said three months ago:

Quote:
As for the prototyping job, it's currenlty non-shareable and pretty much looks like dungeon raiding, a kind of PvE gameplay uncommon in EVE. The stated goal is to develop gameplay first, then develop WiS itself.

This is done, presumedly, on the assumption that WiS would fail for lacking gameplay content, despite the fact that many players took at face value the "social gameplay" implied for Incarna, plus the promise of further gameplay later.


And here we are. They managed to turn dungeon raiding into multiplayer PvP, hooray. But still is NOT what kept people hoping for Ambulation/WiS all those years before.

You keep posting as though what you personally want has any connection to what the rest of the Eve player base wants.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#431 - 2012-07-17 22:22:27 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Featureless gameplay-vacuums with pretty avatar graphics aren't what roleplayers want out of eve, and suggesting otherwise would be hideously patronising. Roleplayers aren't feeble minded sheep who will ooh and aah when you dangle avatars in front of their eyes and they won't be fooled by a WiS implementation that gives them nothing of consequence to do but sit in their pretend-bar and get pretend-drunk while wearing their monocles. In fact, since the whole point of roleplaying is constructing new scenarios and interactions from nothing but your imagination (and the occasional D20 roll), they're probably the group in Eve who benefit least from WiS development since they're already perfectly capable of conjuring up interactions in shady lowsec drinking holes with just a few posts in Intergalactic Summit.

What roleplayers, and most of the rest of us, want from Eve is meaningful, challenging, and interesting gameplay. "WiS for WiS' sake" is the same muddled 'jesus feature' thinking, without anything concrete to back it up, that caused last summer's Incarna disaster and which CCP have thankfully consigned to the bad ideas bucket.


Well said.

Whether exploration sites or social areas, there needs to be some (optional) benefit. Even if the only gameplay mechanic of the social spaces ends up being Sims-like customization, that would still give a reason for WiS to exist.

Having said that, a good gauge of success will be how many "non-EVE types" WiS can get. It would be cool if EVE could attract a second, sustainable community that is perfectly happy gaming in the stations and sees the spaceships mostly as travel vehicles.

Occasionally plays sober
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#432 - 2012-07-17 22:24:35 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
But still is NOT what kept people hoping for Ambulation/WiS all those years before.


This is absolutely true, but exploration and social sites are both confirmed in the works. What does it matter what order they come in?

Occasionally plays sober
nartela
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#433 - 2012-07-17 23:10:53 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:

You keep posting as though what you personally want has any connection to what the rest of the Eve player base wants.


so do you funnily enough coming to a thread full of wis fans just to try and shatter our hopes and dreams wich most of us know are long dead and buried.
and the disaster wasnt just incarna there was that awful newsletter and the stupid prices in the nex store.
game needs to evolve in some way or another.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#434 - 2012-07-18 00:19:47 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Provided that CCP just has begun rethinking WiS without as much as asking the players, all those points about role/social/ "meaningful" (for who?) WiS gameplay are moot.

What is clear is that WiS will be what CCP wants, not what the players want; and in that sense, nothing has changed since last year. Nobody asked us, and now we are being offered to pick between dungeon raiding or nothing.

As i said three months ago:

Quote:
As for the prototyping job, it's currenlty non-shareable and pretty much looks like dungeon raiding, a kind of PvE gameplay uncommon in EVE. The stated goal is to develop gameplay first, then develop WiS itself.

This is done, presumedly, on the assumption that WiS would fail for lacking gameplay content, despite the fact that many players took at face value the "social gameplay" implied for Incarna, plus the promise of further gameplay later.


And here we are. They managed to turn dungeon raiding into multiplayer PvP, hooray. But still is NOT what kept people hoping for Ambulation/WiS all those years before.

You keep posting as though what you personally want has any connection to what the rest of the Eve player base wants.


and you are the one perfectly knowing what the playerbase wants

If CCP succeeds in adding some sort of gameplay into WIS ,great .
I am all for that
But the possible social effect WIS could have is much greater ,even with a room nothing to do in other then to look at each other.
but that is of course only my opinion and not that of the playersbase

R.S.I2014
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#435 - 2012-07-18 00:29:56 UTC
nartela wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:

You keep posting as though what you personally want has any connection to what the rest of the Eve player base wants.


so do you funnily enough coming to a thread full of wis fans just to try and shatter our hopes and dreams wich most of us know are long dead and buried.
and the disaster wasnt just incarna there was that awful newsletter and the stupid prices in the nex store.
game needs to evolve in some way or another.




No the real disaster was the door .
Nexfail and some letters was the extra fuel on the fire that the closed for ever door made.
All anger about the fail called Nex and those letters are long gone,but WIS is something a lott of people are willing to debate about.
A little fire CCP must handle well

R.S.I2014
Lost True
Perkone
Caldari State
#436 - 2012-07-18 03:24:38 UTC
Celeste Taylor wrote:
nartela wrote:
people underestimate just how much this would add to the game in a social and gameplay aspect, not to mention that the role players of eve would probabky have a ball.
they need to addd in features that are useful in the world of eve but are exclusive to wis.


I completely agree. Just look at how successful the Sims (and I hate to mention the dreaded Second Life) has been over the last decade, The Sims really got the whole customization and "fun things you can do" down perfectly but has always struggled with the online transition which to me would be its biggest selling point if done correctly. I think part of the issue is that die hard Sims fans and Eve players don't necessarily overlap so requiring anything in the WiS environment would be a horrible idea.

As for me I would love to build a mansion complete with a much bigger than current television/theater, and a full out audio system. It would be nice to swap out the default couch and get a nice large bed. Also that can of Quafe sitting there should get switched with a nice bottle of campaign, and that is just the start for my CQ ideas.

I don't expect to see hot tub parties or pet cats running around, but there are many fun Sims feature that were enough to support a line of games. Even the much more limited Sony PS Home has been able to keep people interested. The idea of keeping the WiS specific stuff FTP is also a great one that resurfaces every so often.

Holy ****, that's a cool avatar! ShockedBig smile

in 2007 i've thought it's a sci-fi simulator, not an "e-sports" game. I'm not a teenager, how would i like it much?
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#437 - 2012-07-18 07:23:32 UTC
nartela wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:

You keep posting as though what you personally want has any connection to what the rest of the Eve player base wants.


so do you funnily enough coming to a thread full of wis fans just to try and shatter our hopes and dreams wich most of us know are long dead and buried.

I'm looking forward to WiS, because now that CCP has finally acknowledged that standing in a room by ourselves and trying on $70 monocles in the mirror to beta-test the WoD graphics engine isn't a viable platform for an Eve expansion and its not what we expect from 6 years of development, we're likely to get some actual interesting and challenging gameplay which ties in with the rest of the universe.

Quote:
nd the disaster wasnt just incarna there was that awful newsletter and the stupid prices in the nex store.

You say that as though they're unrelated issues, whereas they were all part of the same problem.

Quote:
game needs to evolve in some way or another.

Bolting on a badly-implemented Sims Online clone with no real gameplay and no connection to the rest of the game isn't evolving at all, or more accurately its an evolutionary dead-end.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
nartela
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#438 - 2012-07-18 09:16:07 UTC
gotta agrre with alot of the critcism 6 years development for one room seems insane, especialy since there where all those videos of it inside stations and looking at map rooms and stuff.
so it seems wis needs alkot of gameplay elements to be worth it to alot of players wich is understandable, so what are the ideas on that has ccp said anything.

oh and sorry for being a bit of an arse in my last post Scatim Helicon, i probably shouldnt post when im sleepy.
Via Shivan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#439 - 2012-07-18 11:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Via Shivan
i love eve but allso i was really upset when i first heard of WIS...
than i got my char and the camptains quater...
now well...sorry it takes far to long but could generate allot of content for players..rp etc.
im not missing a feature in a game I AM IN JAIL in my captains quater...that hurts more Twisted

i would loove to go to a bar in station and play poker or something else to waste isk...
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#440 - 2012-07-18 12:10:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
nartela wrote:
gotta agrre with alot of the critcism 6 years development for one room seems insane, especialy since there where all those videos of it inside stations and looking at map rooms and stuff.
so it seems wis needs alkot of gameplay elements to be worth it to alot of players wich is understandable, so what are the ideas on that has ccp said anything.

Last substantial thing we heard was that CCP were going back to the drawing board and doing what they should have been doing 6 years ago - designing some actual gameplay and things to do that fit in with the Eve universe, rather than the previous approach of throwing our subscription money at the graphics and neglecting to give us any content because management was too pre-occupied with dreaming of NeX store revenue streams. There's a dev blog pretty much written and ready to go t update us on these efforts but it fell victim to the CCP holiday season and they're waiting until everyone is back at their desks and can ok it for publication before putting it up.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.