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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Discussion thread about WiS

First post First post
Author
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#441 - 2012-07-18 12:21:25 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
and you are the one perfectly knowing what the playerbase wants

If CCP succeeds in adding some sort of gameplay into WIS ,great .
I am all for that
But the possible social effect WIS could have is much greater ,even with a room nothing to do in other then to look at each other.
but that is of course only my opinion and not that of the playersbase

itt: games don't need gameplay, and social interaction doesn't come from giving the players tools and content to interact with, rather it just rains from the sky because of magical pixies.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Teinyhr
Ourumur
#442 - 2012-07-18 12:55:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Teinyhr
Scatim Helicon wrote:

I like the idea of socialising with other Eve players in a bar, but I do it by I going outside to an actual bar in real life for player meets or fanfest (seriously, go to fanfest and your local player meets, they're good fun). The idea of slapping avatar graphics onto a chat channel which already exists, adding pretend-beer, calling it 'socialising' and claiming that the resulting third-rate, watered-down, sub-Habbo Hotel experience somehow justifies the six years and millions of euros/dollars spent on WiS development is just bizarre.


Oh, what a novel idea! Just one problem - my friends are from all around the world. Juuuust a little hitch in grouping up people when one is from Japan, another from the UK, one from Germany, one from the US and I'm sure you get the idea by now. Coughing up the dough for the fanfest tickets and flights isn't necessarily easy for all of us either. So, yeah, could do that, but it's a lot of work and isn't cheap.
A pretend-bar and pretend-beer in a pretend-world is probably the easiest way for everyone to meet.

Quote:
You seem to think that avatar-based interaction is a goal in itself and that any old implementation will do as long as we get a few characters in a room together. It isn't, its a means to the end of providing Eve players with new forms of gameplay and if there's no gameplay, if there's nothing meaningful for us to do in there, then there's no point CCP wasting any more time on it. CCP themselves have, very belatedly, realised this for themselves, which is why the whole 'buy monocles and own a pretend-bar' has been scrapped as the rotten shark-induced management pipedream it was and the development team are now working on ways to make an actual game out of the mess that was Incarna.


"Look guys, I'm projecting!"
You're right, yet, you are also wrong. Yes, I do think avatar based interaction is a goal in itself. And yes, their old goals and visions would do just fine for a start. I'm not saying they shouldn't develop actual gameplay for WiS. I'm saying I don't want it to be just the same old s**t we get now - we'll even fit modules on our characters (err, power armor or something) for christ's sakes and then we'll pew pew in an abandoned warehouse somewhere for some construction and/or research materials. How very interesting. We certainly don't have enough of things to blow up, maim and kill in this game yet.

As I recall the original gameplay function idea for Incarna had something to do with smuggling - an area of the game that hasn't been looked at... Since launch I guess? There's this old teaser... I would love see them work on that idea, but apparently they're going forward with the ruin exploration-slash-conquering no matter what. Again, I'm not against it per se, but it just feels like a strange route to take after all these years. Most strange part to me is, can all the assets produced for this prototype be used in any way to create other non-space enviroments? I sure hope so, so that we don't have just a single jail cell (as someone put it) on our corporate headquarters but can freely roam around in dislocated miniature stations somewhere in deadspace where almost everything you meet is a hostile NPC with an offchance for a hostile player.

Remember the future vision trailer? I want to see that. I want to see that and live that so bad. But I guess I can live with whatever they are doing now, IF it means the future vision will some day be real.


P.S. Looking at your posts, you don't have to be a douche to prove your point. In fact that's kind offputting.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#443 - 2012-07-18 13:08:00 UTC
Jett0 wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
But still is NOT what kept people hoping for Ambulation/WiS all those years before.


This is absolutely true, but exploration and social sites are both confirmed in the works. What does it matter what order they come in?


No, social is NOT confirmed. It is "something that share commonalities with dungeons and so can be developed easily later" twhich is pretty vague and unrealistic to claim.

Maybe they think, maybe people think, that once you build up station interiors, filling them with dungeons or social spaces is just a little add on. And it's not. As per the 80/20 rule, it's the 20% of details what steals 80% of the work.

So the combination of dungeons+social is not 120% of the work requried for developing dungeons alone, but closer to 180% of what dungeons alone may cost.

That's the fugly truth, we're not talking about rushing for dungeons and then as a last minute thought get social content on top of it, but we are talking about two MASSIVE development efforts (and at least for avatar animation, likely social content will require a lot more effort).

And well, we know that people has waited 6 years for social content. I wonder how wise is to tell them to wait more so people who never gave a fu** of WiS get "meaningful" gameplay for them first...

It may end up as well as handing out the unreleased NEx clothes to FW PvPrs, those well known eager consumers of female apparel. Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#444 - 2012-07-18 13:24:04 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:


"Look guys, I'm projecting!"
You're right, yet, you are also wrong. Yes, I do think avatar based interaction is a goal in itself. And yes, their old goals and visions would do just fine for a start. I'm not saying they shouldn't develop actual gameplay for WiS. I'm saying I don't want it to be just the same old s**t we get now - we'll even fit modules on our characters (err, power armor or something) for christ's sakes and then we'll pew pew in an abandoned warehouse somewhere for some construction and/or research materials. How very interesting. We certainly don't have enough of things to blow up, maim and kill in this game yet.


I loled, as that's the sad truth. "More of the same" gets ahead of "New!" and "Wis? LOLspacebarbiez" get what they don't asked for while WiS are told to wait and hope for the best.

Quote:
As I recall the original gameplay function idea for Incarna had something to do with smuggling - an area of the game that hasn't been looked at... Since launch I guess? There's this old teaser... I would love see them work on that idea, but apparently they're going forward with the ruin exploration-slash-conquering no matter what. Again, I'm not against it per se, but it just feels like a strange route to take after all these years. Most strange part to me is, can all the assets produced for this prototype be used in any way to create other non-space enviroments? I sure hope so, so that we don't have just a single jail cell (as someone put it) on our corporate headquarters but can freely roam around in dislocated miniature stations somewhere in deadspace where almost everything you meet is a hostile NPC with an offchance for a hostile player.


Stop reading my thoughts, it's creepy! Blink

Anwyay as I stated right above, no, the "common" development between dungeons and social spaces is an illusion. Both are massive development tasks and CCP barely is able to cope with one of them at once.

So if they succeed, we will be free to leave our cell so we can get stabbed at the showers... in a "meaningful" way. Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#445 - 2012-07-18 13:46:46 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Teinyhr wrote:


"Look guys, I'm projecting!"
You're right, yet, you are also wrong. Yes, I do think avatar based interaction is a goal in itself. And yes, their old goals and visions would do just fine for a start. I'm not saying they shouldn't develop actual gameplay for WiS. I'm saying I don't want it to be just the same old s**t we get now - we'll even fit modules on our characters (err, power armor or something) for christ's sakes and then we'll pew pew in an abandoned warehouse somewhere for some construction and/or research materials. How very interesting. We certainly don't have enough of things to blow up, maim and kill in this game yet.


I loled, as that's the sad truth. "More of the same" gets ahead of "New!" and "Wis? LOLspacebarbiez" get what they don't asked for while WiS are told to wait and hope for the best.

Quote:
As I recall the original gameplay function idea for Incarna had something to do with smuggling - an area of the game that hasn't been looked at... Since launch I guess? There's this old teaser... I would love see them work on that idea, but apparently they're going forward with the ruin exploration-slash-conquering no matter what. Again, I'm not against it per se, but it just feels like a strange route to take after all these years. Most strange part to me is, can all the assets produced for this prototype be used in any way to create other non-space enviroments? I sure hope so, so that we don't have just a single jail cell (as someone put it) on our corporate headquarters but can freely roam around in dislocated miniature stations somewhere in deadspace where almost everything you meet is a hostile NPC with an offchance for a hostile player.


Stop reading my thoughts, it's creepy! Blink

Anwyay as I stated right above, no, the "common" development between dungeons and social spaces is an illusion. Both are massive development tasks and CCP barely is able to cope with one of them at once.

So if they succeed, we will be free to leave our cell so we can get stabbed at the showers... in a "meaningful" way. Lol





in the same meaningful way people camp gates or stations you mean? Blink
Soon we have exploration camps or better yet CQ door camps very meaningful stuff to do.Blink

nah forget about social ,lets do something meaningful and camp a door Blink

R.S.I2014

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#446 - 2012-07-18 17:28:35 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
Oh, what a novel idea! Just one problem - my friends are from all around the world. Juuuust a little hitch in grouping up people when one is from Japan, another from the UK, one from Germany, one from the US and I'm sure you get the idea by now. Coughing up the dough for the fanfest tickets and flights isn't necessarily easy for all of us either. So, yeah, could do that, but it's a lot of work and isn't cheap.
A pretend-bar and pretend-beer in a pretend-world is probably the easiest way for everyone to meet.


1) How do you interact with these global friends of yours today? Facebook, email, in-game chat channels, voice comms, forums?

2) How does the ability to sit in a pretend-bar with them enhance this interaction in any way whatsoever? Simply because you can duplicate your existing Facebook, chat channels, voice comms or forums but with your character model pasted into the screen?

Quote:
Quote:
You seem to think that avatar-based interaction is a goal in itself and that any old implementation will do as long as we get a few characters in a room together. It isn't, its a means to the end of providing Eve players with new forms of gameplay and if there's no gameplay, if there's nothing meaningful for us to do in there, then there's no point CCP wasting any more time on it. CCP themselves have, very belatedly, realised this for themselves, which is why the whole 'buy monocles and own a pretend-bar' has been scrapped as the rotten shark-induced management pipedream it was and the development team are now working on ways to make an actual game out of the mess that was Incarna.


"Look guys, I'm projecting!"
You're right, yet, you are also wrong. Yes, I do think avatar based interaction is a goal in itself. And yes, their old goals and visions would do just fine for a start. I'm not saying they shouldn't develop actual gameplay for WiS. I'm saying I don't want it to be just the same old s**t we get now - we'll even fit modules on our characters (err, power armor or something) for christ's sakes and then we'll pew pew in an abandoned warehouse somewhere for some construction and/or research materials. How very interesting. We certainly don't have enough of things to blow up, maim and kill in this game yet.

I've posted elsewhere that WiS doesn't need to be particularly combat focused - we're pilots, not space marines - and that it would be far more interesting to take the capsuleer completely out of their 1600mm rolled tungsten comfort zone and have them interact with the Eve universe at a whole new level, having to think and hack and avoid foot patrols to explore abandoned stations rather than storming the barricades with a plasma rifle and casually gunning down every NPC in sight like we do in space combat. An aspect of Eve which turned the existing status quo on its head, where the lowliest Serpentis militiaman or rogue drone was a genuine threat, and where opening fire on hostiles mostly served to sound the alarm and blow your cover. The Eve universe is getting DUST for its all-guns-blazing foot combat, we really don't need to re-invent the wheel.

Quote:
As I recall the original gameplay function idea for Incarna had something to do with smuggling - an area of the game that hasn't been looked at... Since launch I guess?

The earlier versions of WiS gameplay fell victim to the senior management pipedream of making the playerbase pay for eve twice via NeX store trinkets so they could buy their $1000 jeans. I hope they're revived, and black market smuggling is one of the old WiS ideas I can get behind, no problem. WiS shouldn't just be about one type of gameplay (be that smuggling, ruin exploration, or whatever), though, any more than lowsec is just about factional warfare or highsec is just about mining.

Quote:
P.S. Looking at your posts, you don't have to be a douche to prove your point. In fact that's kind offputting.

Believe me, I'm biting my tongue in a lot of these posts to keep things mostly constructive. That doesn't mean I'm not going to call a terrible idea a terrible idea.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#447 - 2012-07-18 19:05:56 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:


The earlier versions of WiS gameplay fell victim to the senior management pipedream of making the playerbase pay for eve twice via NeX store trinkets so they could buy their $1000 jeans. I hope they're revived, and black market smuggling is one of the old WiS ideas I can get behind, no problem. WiS shouldn't just be about one type of gameplay (be that smuggling, ruin exploration, or whatever), though, any more than lowsec is just about factional warfare or highsec is just about mining.

Quote:
P.S. Looking at your posts, you don't have to be a douche to prove your point. In fact that's kind offputting.

Believe me, I'm biting my tongue in a lot of these posts to keep things mostly constructive. That doesn't mean I'm not going to call a terrible idea a terrible idea.



I dont like the NEXcrap either ,but keeping the NEXfail into the discussion isn,t constructive.
Sadly there are no signs that CCP is gonna give up this mistake called the NEX
but the next mistake the door is something they seem to be willing to change

R.S.I2014

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#448 - 2012-07-18 19:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
Scatim Helicon wrote:
1) How do you interact with these global friends of yours today? Facebook, email, in-game chat channels, voice comms, forums?

2) How does the ability to sit in a pretend-bar with them enhance this interaction in any way whatsoever? Simply because you can duplicate your existing Facebook, chat channels, voice comms or forums but with your character model pasted into the screen?


It's all in the execution. Done poorly, you're right. Done well, it's the only option that immerses you in the game. It comes down to whether they just paste your character model into the screen or bring in enough control and customization that your character looks, acts and sounds like your character (as opposed to, say, Gallente Male Option #3).

It will be hard to do right, but if they pull it off it will be amazing for those who value immersion. For those who don't, the (mostly external) options will work as well as they ever did. At the very highest levels of EVE, the plots and the planning and the negotiation all occur entirely outside the game itself. Why not provide some compelling options for bringing that content into the game?

Scatim Helicon wrote:
The earlier versions of WiS gameplay fell victim to the senior management pipedream of making the playerbase pay for eve twice via NeX store trinkets so they could buy their $1000 jeans. I hope they're revived, and black market smuggling is one of the old WiS ideas I can get behind, no problem. WiS shouldn't just be about one type of gameplay (be that smuggling, ruin exploration, or whatever), though, any more than lowsec is just about factional warfare or highsec is just about mining.


They also bungled the hell out of the execution. Most of that was admittedly before my time, but I've seen the pug-faced avatars, and I arrived just in time to experience the last days of the CPU-melting slideshow of Minmatar-only CQs. I've seen the videos showing off all these cool concepts that have never been delivered on.

That's why it's more important that CCP underpromises and overdelivers on whatever Incarna content they decide to ship. Exploration content is not my greatest interest, but if they knock it out of the park they will give the players a lot more reason to hope that they can deliver on the rest of their promises.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#449 - 2012-07-18 21:19:24 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
I dont like the NEXcrap either ,but keeping the NEXfail into the discussion isn,t constructive.
Sadly there are no signs that CCP is gonna give up this mistake called the NEX
but the next mistake the door is something they seem to be willing to change


Untangling NeX from WiS is a long and difficult process though, because for far too long WiS development was driven by the desire to sell monocles and special edition jackets, including the entire 'social environments' phase of the WiS vision. Players are still asking for that when it essentially was only being developed to be used as a virtual catwalk to display your latest NeX purchase.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#450 - 2012-07-19 00:55:34 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
I dont like the NEXcrap either ,but keeping the NEXfail into the discussion isn,t constructive.
Sadly there are no signs that CCP is gonna give up this mistake called the NEX
but the next mistake the door is something they seem to be willing to change


Untangling NeX from WiS is a long and difficult process though, because for far too long WiS development was driven by the desire to sell monocles and special edition jackets, including the entire 'social environments' phase of the WiS vision. Players are still asking for that when it essentially was only being developed to be used as a virtual catwalk to display your latest NeX purchase.




you are repeating yourself
you must be an forum bot with only one thing programmed into it

its driving me crazy people have bots everywhere
there are mining and mission bots ,now we automatic answering machines on these forums


R.S.I2014

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#451 - 2012-07-19 06:56:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
you are repeating yourself
you must be an forum bot with only one thing programmed into it

its driving me crazy people have bots everywhere
there are mining and mission bots ,now we automatic answering machines on these forums

Yes, I am a bot programmed to inject some reality into the arguments of WiS For Wis' Sake and Jesus Feature advocates.

Beep boop.

(protip: this is a 23 page thread. Everyone is repeating the same handful of opinions at this point)

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#452 - 2012-07-19 08:05:49 UTC
indeed a goonbot keep on bashing the NEXfail
this 23 page thread is about WIS and trying to derail with very expensive Jeans ,won,t change it.

but i can put you on the right thread for it so you can vent you frustrations about the NEXcrap.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=121776&find=unread

don,t thank me for it , i am glad i could help somebody to the right thread

R.S.I2014

nartela
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#453 - 2012-07-19 10:40:09 UTC
i quite like the nex store actualy it was silly at the beggining and in some respects the pricing today is still a bit off, but the potentiol is there.
they should nmake arum cheaper and also drop the plex exchange system, make it so you pay direct.
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#454 - 2012-07-19 11:52:46 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
indeed a goonbot keep on bashing the NEXfail
this 23 page thread is about WIS and trying to derail with very expensive Jeans ,won,t change it.

but i can put you on the right thread for it so you can vent you frustrations about the NEXcrap.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=121776&find=unread

don,t thank me for it , i am glad i could help somebody to the right thread

"This is the thread about WiS development why are you talking about the features that drove WiS development"

You might not like the fact that WiS was hijacked to act as a vehicle for NeX sales and CCP now have to work on untangling the mess that resulted, and you may wish to turn a blind eye to the fact that a few loudmouthed WiS for WiS's sake advocates are trying to deflect CCP right back down that dead-end, but that doesn't change the facts.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#455 - 2012-07-19 12:19:37 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
indeed a goonbot keep on bashing the NEXfail
this 23 page thread is about WIS and trying to derail with very expensive Jeans ,won,t change it.

but i can put you on the right thread for it so you can vent you frustrations about the NEXcrap.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=121776&find=unread

don,t thank me for it , i am glad i could help somebody to the right thread

"This is the thread about WiS development why are you talking about the features that drove WiS development"

You might not like the fact that WiS was hijacked to act as a vehicle for NeX sales and CCP now have to work on untangling the mess that resulted, and you may wish to turn a blind eye to the fact that a few loudmouthed WiS for WiS's sake advocates are trying to deflect CCP right back down that dead-end, but that doesn't change the facts.


There it is ,was waiting to see that .
another Goon alt with the same routine ,like it was on that big WIS thread
Nice to see you are still alive

R.S.I2014

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#456 - 2012-07-19 12:24:29 UTC
I notice you've stopped trying to argue your case and are now blubbering incoherently about how you just knew I was going to say whatever it is I just said.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#457 - 2012-07-19 12:41:35 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
I notice you've stopped trying to argue your case and are now blubbering incoherently about how you just knew I was going to say whatever it is I just said.

we could argue about WIS and its possibility's ,but you want to argue about NEX,so what is the point .

At least some Goons used to argue and even gave some good ideas about possible features.
Ooh well that was only 1 goon who did that ,but he had a interesting idea about implants
the rest of it came with the same stupid argument ,that WIS is going to kill EVE and of course those expansive jeans nobody talks about anymore.

So if you want to discuss WIS be my guest .
if you want discuss the end of EvE ,bc of NEX go to that devblog about aurum and clothing

the potential of WIS is big ,be it a social platform or one with actual gameplay
i like gameplay as long it is in station ,there is the most success to be made
WIS in some sort of dungeon type gameplay will appeal to a lot of less people
I don,t mind some sort of pvp in WIS as long there is a chance to get through that door in a normal manner

So pls argue with that and try to keep the NEXcrap out of it

R.S.I2014

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#458 - 2012-07-19 16:42:20 UTC
I'm happy to drop the discussion of NeX, I can see it makes you upset.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#459 - 2012-07-19 17:58:31 UTC
Don't you have some tech moons to go milk or something?
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Gevlin
Planned Obsolescence.
No Visual.
#460 - 2012-07-20 00:25:44 UTC
i am so hopping that ccp places items in the Nex store that does not have to deal with WIS, Like Ship skins

when (If) WIS does go for the Spy Vs Spy Dungeon Crawl. I hope the social room mechanic will also be released at the same time.
you tube of the game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu2e866bEcM&feature=related

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships