These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

Discussion thread about WiS

First post First post
Author
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#1 - 2012-04-20 13:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Edited: link to the original thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=244597#post244597

So trolls just killed the old WiS thread... time to summarize a bit.

From the old thread, we could see how were raised thee stances on the implementation of WiS:

Stance one, by CCP: there's a long way to Tipperary and we ain't laced our shoes yet.

Essentially, what CCP is doing is to prototype gameplay (which, as i pointed out, could actually be used for their other games too, and not necessarily for EVE). This is a part-time job for Team Avatar, which, although recently raised the head count to 7 developers, effectively lacks workforce to achieve anything that could be implemented in game this year. All the recent and in progress developments by Team Avatar are leftovers of Incarna which probably would have been released in winter 2011/summer 2012. As for the prototyping job, it's currenlty non-shareable and pretty much looks like dungeon raiding, a kind of PvE gameplay uncommon in EVE. The stated goal is to develop gameplay first, then develop WiS itself.

This is done, presumedly, on the assumption that WiS would fail for lacking gameplay content, despite the fact that many players took at face value the "social gameplay" implied for Incarna, plus the promise of further gameplay later.

The prospects for getting any WiS content down this path are uncertain as, it all depends on CCP actually asigning resources to WiS, which is not clear from the "EVE circle of life" presented in Fanfest 2012. The "circle of life" could imply only FiS and no WiS at all...

Stance two, by some players: the fast and dirty road

The "fast and dirty" road to WiS would be to implement social content on the existing WiS infrastructure -namely adding limited multiplayer to the current CQs, then add further multiplayer areas along with social interaction tools (/emotes) and additonal customization options, The advantages of this approach are scalability of resources, that it is fast, and it actually is what WiS players had "bought" from Incarna.

Of course, social WiS would be esentialy a glorified chat and most of the actual content would be emerging content; the gameplay woud be whatever people would do with the tools provided. This, ironically, is what EVE is all about, more than actually "ride like" PvE content. Also, social gameplay would require beefed up customization, which in turn could open a door to some actual vanity MT.

The prospects of convincing CCP to take this road are slim, but nonetheless it's the clearest hope of getting actual WiS in 2013 and not on a way longer schedule.

Stance three: not in my EVE

This stance is represented by our beloved trolls, from the dumber ones to the cunning ones suggesting that WiS becomes a separate project, and preferably one without any actual influence on EVE.

The few people with a legitimate concern abut WiS, do so misled by the impression that the Incarna disaster was caused by WiS, a point that has been disproven many times. Also, nobody defending WiS asks that it is prioritized upon pending FiS content, which is pretty sensible but also generous as, all in all, WiSers are the last guys in game to get a broken feature nobody is gonna look at for years. Actually WiS is the first featureless feature in the history of EVE, an accomplishment hard to beat.

Puns aside, it is obvious that most people who oppose WiS do so for the same reason as this forums are so busy: they aim to spoil somebody else's fun and tell them how to play the game.


So, these are the three stances on WiS. With any luck, this thread may last long and allow to discuss the virtues and faults of each stance, and to keep showing that we still want to open the door.
Oberine Noriepa
#2 - 2012-04-20 15:18:59 UTC
At this point, I'm only wondering if WIS will receive a DX11 treatment? I mean, the Trinity side of the client is, so is it reasonable to assume that Carbon will as well?

Copine Callmeknau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-04-20 15:32:18 UTC
Option 2 would be great
At least then CQ could be used for more than just a new and interesting way to watch porn

There should be a rather awesome pic here

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-04-20 15:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Grossvogel
Indahmawar Fazmarai,

+1 for a very good accurate summary of the now locked WiS thread. Unfortunately this thread now has the same thing happening to it and will ultimately suffer the same fate - being over-run and trolled til locked.

Sturmwolke wrote:
Beating on the dead horse again? (Issler II?)

You forgot Stance Four - those that don't give a damn about WiS, just as long as the core EVE (not limited to FiS) is well maintained.

Anti-WiS players don't have anything to worry about, they've won the battle. "Vive la Revolución". CCP Unifex made it quite clear at Fanfest 2012 that CCP will be iterating specifically on the Core aspect of Eve, otherwise known as FiS. According to the 'Circle Of Life' presented by CCP t0rfifrans, this will probably be for the next 3 years.
Justice Comes
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-04-20 16:25:35 UTC
I think they left the W out of WiS. My toon walks like a model on the slowest runway in the world, and the overall movement is nowhere near fluid or responsive. It's torturous to try to get from the ship to the captain's quarters due to the speed.

The movement experience is so detached from the well-polished room the character is in. I don't understand how this feature even got released in its current state. What were we supposed to do with it?? Gawk at the lighted screens... for how long?

I'm not against WiS in a general concept as an added feature for the casuals, but this should have been left in the can until you had something we could actually use. I'm sure that's been said a million times but I've never commented on it so here ya go :p

Most annoying thing of the week: You failed to dock/jump because you are cloaked (in your Deep Space Transport).

ISD Grossvogel
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#6 - 2012-04-20 17:34:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Grossvogel
This thread has been moved to the F&I section in order to facilitate a constructive discussion on everything related to the WiS side of EVE; for CQ-related ideas and suggestions, please visit this thread.

ISD Grossvogel (ISD Гроссфогель) Captain, Community Communication Liaisons (CCL) Волонтёр группы по взаимодействию с игроками Interstellar Services Department

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#7 - 2012-04-20 21:17:43 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai,

+1 for a very good accurate summary of the now locked WiS thread. Unfortunately this thread now has the same thing happening to it and will ultimately suffer the same fate - being over-run and trolled til locked.

Sturmwolke wrote:
Beating on the dead horse again? (Issler II?)

You forgot Stance Four - those that don't give a damn about WiS, just as long as the core EVE (not limited to FiS) is well maintained.

Anti-WiS players don't have anything to worry about, they've won the battle. "Vive la Revolución". CCP Unifex made it quite clear at Fanfest 2012 that CCP will be iterating specifically on the Core aspect of Eve, otherwise known as FiS. According to the 'Circle Of Life' presented by CCP t0rfifrans, this will probably be for the next 3 years.


Frankly, i was too discouraged after listening to the art panel video and didn't cared about what was being said elsewhere. So i didn't listen to the "circle of life" stuff. And don't really care, as EVE is ex-sex to me. Been there, done that, glad we ended it. Nothing new, nothing left.

And my intuition is that CCP is neither serious nor honest about WiS.

Initially I was kind of puzzled on WTH were doing 5 top notch developers in such a small team with such unclear goals. As evidence has surfaced, ti turns they're not working on it full time, and what they're doing is finish leftover stuff and prototyping avatar gameplay. Litherally avatar gameplay... for avatar-based games. Not starship-based games.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think so. My intuition has proved to be quite more reliable than CCP.
Ai Shun
#8 - 2012-04-21 08:22:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ai Shun
I am surprised that none of the WiS adherents have visited this - even if to comment on what is wrong with it. I have highlighted how the avatar section is part of FiS, but also separate and optional for players that do not want it and how seamless it should be. It is a long read, but I think you may find it interesting.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Quite frankly, I'm very disgusted with this whole issue. Yes I would still like to have WiS Ambulation but that isn't going to happen, definitely not in the next 3 years. If there is any WiS content implemented, it will be in some form of Avatar PvP Action due to the prevalent griefer mantra around here - "No Place Is Safe In Eve". I expect only a small amount of players will participate, especially if it's a free for all shoot em up anywhere at anytime gank fest.


I don't want the Avatar based game overrun with combat. That should be the realm of Dust 514. I believe it should have a stronger focus on construction, development and so forth. I posted some of the thoughts around that in the earlier F&I thread (Linked above)

I would appreciate some feedback on the gameplay attributes, please.
Ai Shun
#9 - 2012-04-21 08:28:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ai Shun
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Stance three: not in my EVE

This stance is represented by our beloved trolls, from the dumber ones to the cunning ones suggesting that WiS becomes a separate project, and preferably one without any actual influence on EVE.



As far as I know I'm the only one who has pushed for that, because I want to see something happen. I do not believe that CCP will deliver us the type of WiS content we expect if it is left to a small team. We'll see small things, but nothing spectacular.

I still maintain - if we want decisive action and real results - we need a full development team with proper funding and a focus on delivering something.

I have explained how the game can be both separate and part of FiS with character re-use in a seamless environment. I have explained the motivations behind it.

I will ask you to please read that and try to understand it. I am definitely not pushing for it to have no actual influence on EVE; it has to be in EVE universe and I've proposed gameplay and elements that would put WiS / Avatar gameplay as the core for social and industry in the EVE universe.

In any event, read this thread. (Or even just the first post - although the rest expands on gameplay) It explains my position very well. Maybe that will help you to not misrepresent/troll it in future.
Francisco Bizzaro
#10 - 2012-04-21 08:29:42 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

Anti-WiS players don't have anything to worry about, they've won the battle. "Vive la Revolución".

I't put it slightly differently. The anti-WiS crowd didn't win the battle - CCP lost it. They've had something like 6 years to come up with an effective product, and didn't. People (apparently including CCP themselves to some extent) very sensibly lost patience and/or confidence in the idea that anything would ever come of it.

I'm not sure where this fits in the OP's categories, but put me down as someone who'd like to see good WiS gameplay, but who's become a cynical old bastard who's unconvinced it's worth putting much more effort into based on results to date. And since I haven't seen a proposal for "good gameplay" in WiS yet, I'm not even sure what people are actually agitating for. But I'm open-minded about the idea and it would be great if they could prove me wrong without engaging in another "18 months" fiasco.
Ai Shun
#11 - 2012-04-21 08:34:23 UTC
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
I'm not sure where this fits in the OP's categories, but put me down as someone who'd like to see good WiS gameplay, but who's become a cynical old bastard who's unconvinced it's worth putting much more effort into based on results to date. And since I haven't seen a proposal for "good gameplay" in WiS yet, I'm not even sure what people are actually agitating for. But I'm open-minded about the idea and it would be great if they could prove me wrong without engaging in another "18 months" fiasco.


Picture the industrial heart of a science fiction universe, from corrupt planetary governors through to the seedy bars and smuggling houses. Imagine people gathering to meet with their corporation friends, contacts and factors from distant empires over a drink, a game of chance. Imagine the view out over a cityscape of starscrapers with craft gliding between them. Imagine the time spent coordinating a strike with the mercenaries you hired from Dust 514, going over the battle plan or just relaxing afterwards.

There is a lot that can be done. Throw some ideas at me here, please Lol
Francisco Bizzaro
#12 - 2012-04-21 11:38:18 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Picture the industrial heart of a science fiction universe, from corrupt planetary governors through to the seedy bars and smuggling houses. Imagine people gathering to meet with their corporation friends, contacts and factors from distant empires over a drink, a game of chance. Imagine the view out over a cityscape of starscrapers with craft gliding between them. Imagine the time spent coordinating a strike with the mercenaries you hired from Dust 514, going over the battle plan or just relaxing afterwards.

Hmm, well, I can imagine these things. But except for the games of chance, I'm not sure which of these aspects constitute actual gameplay. There are already very efficient ways to communicate in-game, so bars and meeting rooms seem redundant. I like the imagery, but it's mostly superficial and I don't see anything that will get my lazy ass out of my pod to engage in them more than a couple of times out of curiosity.

Seedy bars and smuggling houses sound good, but when implemented usually correspond to an NPC in a dark corner with an exclamation mark over his head, surrounded by dancing yahoos running in and out after picking up their "quests" or whatever. Kind of kills the atmosphere.

And talking to people in bars might be a bit disconcerting when their voice doesn't match their avatar. Little known fact: most of the grizzled pirates in this game are actually attractive asian girls in RL.

But I've never understood the appeal of social-oriented games like Second Life, where the point seems to be to just hang around, so maybe I'm underestimating the demand for this type of thing.
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#13 - 2012-04-21 14:19:12 UTC
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:

Seedy bars and smuggling houses sound good, but when implemented usually correspond to an NPC in a dark corner with an exclamation mark over his head, surrounded by dancing yahoos running in and out after picking up their "quests" or whatever. Kind of kills the atmosphere.


The thing is, EvE doesn't have to be like that. Try and picture a scene like this taking place in a bar somewhere in Metropolis:

You walk into the bar, and the first person you see is your contact -- he's hunched over the table in the rear, his face obscured by the shadows cast in the wake of the overhead lamp.

You've come a long way to meet this man. The 'item' you want cost a small fortune, and it took three weeks for him to find it, but find it he did. Rumor has it that he paid off a few pirates to make sure it got back in one piece...

You don't know his name. Just his face, from the brief, cryptic conversations you had over the Summit link in the early hours of the morning.

You approach the table...

And as you move to sit down, three more figures step from the corner, and your so-far-profitable day goes straight to hell.


Now, imagine that your contact is a real person. Not some AI or an NPC, but a real living being, who one day decided that you just weren't paying him enough and decided to shop around for an employer who would be more 'accomodating'.

There's just one hitch: his new patron is willing to pay a lot more for the very goods that you expected to recieve tonight.

What happens next? Negotiate, fight, or flee? Or do you backstab him in revenge?

EvE is about the 'sandbox'. How you play -- and how you deal with the unexpected -- is up to you.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#14 - 2012-04-21 14:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrid Stjerna
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:

Seedy bars and smuggling houses sound good, but when implemented usually correspond to an NPC in a dark corner with an exclamation mark over his head, surrounded by dancing yahoos running in and out after picking up their "quests" or whatever. Kind of kills the atmosphere.


The thing is, EvE doesn't have to be like that. Try and picture a scene like this taking place in a bar somewhere in Metropolis:

Quote:
You walk into the bar, and the first person you see is your contact -- he's hunched over the table in the rear, his face obscured by the shadows cast in the wake of the overhead lamp.

You've come a long way to meet this man. The 'item' you want cost a small fortune, and it took three weeks for him to find it, but find it he did. Rumor has it that he paid off a few pirates to make sure it got back in one piece...

You don't know his name. Just his face, from the brief, cryptic conversations you had over the Summit link in the early hours of the morning.

You approach the table...

And as you move to sit down, three more figures step from the corner, and your so-far-profitable day goes straight to hell.


Now, imagine that your contact is a real person. Not some AI or an NPC, but a real living being, who one day decided that you just weren't paying him enough and decided to shop around for an employer who would be more 'accomodating'.

There's just one hitch: his new patron is willing to pay a lot more for the very goods that you expected to recieve tonight.

What happens next? Negotiate, fight, or flee? Or do you backstab him in revenge?

EvE is about the 'sandbox'. How you play -- and how you deal with the unexpected -- is up to you.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-04-21 17:24:17 UTC
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
Hey can you can that bitterness? Stop tearing up like you've been wronged and showing everybody your displeasure.
Rather, discuss gameplay concepts that will make wis meaningful, and feasible. i heard the devs are prototyping.


Bitterness and Displeasure? Tearing up? No tears here, just resignation and acceptance. I'm done with wasting time discussing something that isn't going to happen. Dev's have been prototyping this concept since 2006.

RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
i don't know what you think has conspired, resulting your overwhelming rage. has there been an official devblog? i find your little tantrums quite... amusing. bittervetting about wis...Roll
you know ranting is against forum rules. brandishing your displeasure is not constructive at all. most people don't respond well to ultimatums.
look at how long it took ccp to give FW another look, everything will come in due time. there is no reason to panic as long as the nex store still exists.


Overwhelming rage? Tantrums? Bittervetting? Ranting? Ultimatum? I'll just say this - "Physician, heal thyself." Normally I would view your replies as a personal attack trolling for a flame war but quite frankly, I'm tired of this crap and I'm not going to play the 'insult and report' game anymore. I just wanted to clarify a few things.

By the way - Factional Warfare and every other game content, broken or unfinished, has had from the very beginning an interactive aspect of it which allowed players some semblance of game play. WiS Incarna has no game play associated with it. Why? Because development resources were spent on the NEX Store which is the main problem. The Captains Quarters were quickly created specifically to facilitate implementation of the NEX Store. Hell, if the CQ's had allowed players the option to create custom interiors along with the ability for other players to view it (Video Phone, Conference Calling?)..I'd consider that as the start for game play content giving the NEX Store a viable reason for existence.

Ai Shun wrote:
I am surprised that none of the WiS adherents have visited this - even if to comment on what is wrong with it. I have highlighted how the avatar section is part of FiS, but also separate and optional for players that do not want it and how seamless it should be. It is a long read, but I think you may find it interesting.

I don't want the Avatar based game overrun with combat. That should be the realm of Dust 514. I believe it should have a stronger focus on construction, development and so forth. I posted some of the thoughts around that in the earlier F&I thread (Linked above)

I would appreciate some feedback on the gameplay attributes, please.


I'm sure you've placed a lot of time and thought into your proposal and it more than likely has a lot of good aspects. It might even be close to CCP's ideas and actual plans. Right now I just can't get behind the idea of having another different game interacting with Eve Online which would also undoubtedly require paying for another subscription. That's the one thing I dislike about DUST514.

CCP has stated from the very beginning that Eve Online is meant to be a Virtual Reality Science Fiction Universe. I always thought they were just talking about EVE itself. It never dawned on me that it would be a few games with different environments doing limited interaction between each other. But it does make sense. Probably easier to implement and definitely creates more revenue for CCP. I can see the marketing ads now, 3 games, 1 universe, Eve Online. Eve = Space combat. DUST514 = Planet combat. Avatar Intel = Station combat.

lol. I've always been the type of player who only pay's and plays one game at a time so the way I look at it, this game will never truly be a Virtual Reality Universe for me. Anyway, I'm tired of dealing with and thinking about this whole thing.

Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
I'd put it slightly differently. The anti-WiS crowd didn't win the battle - CCP lost it. They've had something like 6 years to come up with an effective product, and didn't. People (apparently including CCP themselves to some extent) very sensibly lost patience and/or confidence in the idea that anything would ever come of it.

I'm not sure where this fits in the OP's categories, but put me down as someone who'd like to see good WiS gameplay, but who's become a cynical old bastard who's unconvinced it's worth putting much more effort into based on results to date. And since I haven't seen a proposal for "good gameplay" in WiS yet, I'm not even sure what people are actually agitating for. But I'm open-minded about the idea and it would be great if they could prove me wrong without engaging in another "18 months" fiasco.


Very nicely stated and almost sums up my view point pertaining to this whole situation.

oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Lets face it .
WIS is dead
Team Avatar is nothing more then a tinfoil hat


Short, sweet and to the point.
I like it and as far as I'm concerned, you've basically hit the nail on the head.


Well, that's it for me. Time to put this situation to bed and let it rest. I'm done dealing with this issue and I wish lot's of luck to those continuing to fight the good fight. I would love to see WiS Ambulation fully implemented into the game but I don't see it happening for quite a while.


RAP ACTION HERO
#16 - 2012-04-21 17:42:00 UTC
some ideas for nex revenue, hope they are constructive.

-monthly starbase charters to open/maintain player owned establishment
-furniture and items to decorate player owned establishments
-more clothes and stuff to show off to other players in the player owned establishments
-"social skills books" for avatars, such as emote packs and dance move packs
-exclusive music to be played at player owned establishments (overrides eve client music jukebox)

vitoc erryday

RAP ACTION HERO
#17 - 2012-04-21 17:42:52 UTC
also to the op, what are those "dungeon" gameplay you speak of, please linky.

vitoc erryday

Sara Seraph
Sara Inc
#18 - 2012-04-21 23:56:40 UTC
I see a wonderful potential for WiS, but, for now I don't expect much to come out of WiS.

My hope would be A glorified chat room.

I am one of those players who spends most of my play time in some form of convos and/chats, and personally I do not see how my play style is ruining anyone else's game.

So, the idea that I could invite someone into my CQ for a private chat seems workable. Small steps that could be used to work on the avatar interactions, smiles , frowns, or even simple waving the hand.

Then we could work on adding more folks and turn it into a party.

I would have a butler, so this can be used to develope player/NPC interactions, again using small steps.

Francisco Bizzaro
#19 - 2012-04-22 07:24:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Francisco Bizzaro
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:

... cynical stuff about seedy bars not working...

Now, imagine that your contact is a real person. Not some AI or an NPC, but a real living being, who one day decided that you just weren't paying him enough and decided to shop around for an employer who would be more 'accomodating'

There's just one hitch: his new patron is willing to pay a lot more for the very goods that you expected to recieve tonight

What happens next? Negotiate, fight, or flee? Or do you backstab him in revenge

EvE is about the 'sandbox'. How you play -- and how you deal with the unexpected -- is up to you.

Yeah, I can see how that could work. If you define some low-sec region of a station and some valuable contraband that can only be traded there, this type of gameplay could emerge.

You do have to be careful about the balance though. Once you allow PVP combat in an area, there is a good chance it will cease to function as a seedy bar and simply become an arena. So you need to add some consequences for fighting which are strong enough to discourage it most of the time. Not impossible either, but would require a bit of subtle balancing to get the "seedy" atmosphere right.

(Plus, the incarna engine would need to support combat, and that may push this type of gameplay to the very distant future indeed.)

This is the kind of game design that we haven't yet seen. WiS has been promoted for years by videos showing cool people doing cool things in space stations. But they're far detached from feet-on-the-ground reality, because there are no suggestions of how the game will work to encourage those types of scenarios. They could be fun, but will they really work in practice? You'd hope that CCP thought the mechanics through somewhat before making a promo video - but then we get the candid (and appreciated) admission last autumn that the gameplay they'd designed for WiS wasn't actually that much fun.

Anyhow, often the scenarios people present to sell the WiS game, particularly things like "drinking beers with your corp-mates in a bar surrounded by exotic dancers", just seem like novelties which don't have any substance behind them or lasting value. And when all of the promotion is at such a superficial level it's hard to know what we're actually getting, so my enthusiasm is pretty muted.

Sorry, OP, if that puts me in your anti-WiS troll category.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#20 - 2012-04-22 08:31:53 UTC
Sara Seraph wrote:
I see a wonderful potential for WiS, but, for now I don't expect much to come out of WiS.

My hope would be A glorified chat room.

I am one of those players who spends most of my play time in some form of convos and/chats, and personally I do not see how my play style is ruining anyone else's game.

So, the idea that I could invite someone into my CQ for a private chat seems workable. Small steps that could be used to work on the avatar interactions, smiles , frowns, or even simple waving the hand.

Then we could work on adding more folks and turn it into a party.

I would have a butler, so this can be used to develope player/NPC interactions, again using small steps.



This is the "fast and dirty" road, which is precisely what they were doing pre-Incarna. And it could had worked with the appropiate timing and PR. Allow the players to tinker with the CQs as an option rather than shove it down their throats, implement the NEx once the CQs were functional... baby steps to start a long run.

And with social interaction mechanics, emergent gameplay is just a matter of time. The character creator has stemmed a threadnaught just with the very limited customization and posing it allows. An ability to pose the full body would drive the rating to a new level. And that's a reason to keep playing the game, i.e., the character creator IS ENDGAME CONTENT.

Of course it's not alone, but, there it is. Now just add some reasonable MT and people may keep paying just to make their avatars look "better" (prettier, meaner, sillier...) in a way that starships don't allow. My 100% custom avatar binds me more to EVE than my multi-billion mission runner ships. She is UNIQUE. And, for what is worth, she can't be lost/destroyed by some hooligan. She's a permanent bond to EVE.

"Glorified chat" seems silly? Well think about NPE and teaching your new recruits in a virtual classroom. What strong bind would that create towards YOUR corp and not the next one.

Ther are many uses for avatar, and "rides" are just one of them. One that provides a useful excuse to not do any actual new work on WiS and provides a masquerade to develop other projects under the guise of "working for EVE", of course.

With CCP it's never what they say, rather what they do. And they're no longer developing EVE avatar content. Inferno will deliver the last Incarna leftovers and that will be all for Ambulation / WiS / Incarna.

They could be honest about it, at least.
123Next pageLast page