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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Watch Lists in High Sec

Author
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2016-09-09 08:43:30 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
In RL hunter works without anyone notify him 'your target woke up and is leaving it's den'. In Rl you NEED to know who are you hunting BEFORE you start.

Recent (not really 'recent' tho) changes made EVE 'hunters' feel what real hunters can feel.

I don't see much problems here.

In real life individuals can't disappear from the universe at will.

Ask moskito where did it go when you put lights on.... Lol

Or you can try to follow somebody over the city.... Unless you have group of professionals you will lose him after 2-3 subway stations or markets..... And he does not need to 'disappear from the universe'. He just need to find some cover and you already lost him.

'hunters'..... Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2016-09-09 08:52:24 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Toriessian wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
In RL hunter works without anyone notify him 'your target woke up and is leaving it's den'. In Rl you NEED to know who are you hunting BEFORE you start.

Recent (not really 'recent' tho) changes made EVE 'hunters' feel what real hunters can feel.

I don't see much problems here.


Ironically 3/4 of the RL hunters I know use the "Jita" method of hunting. They sit in a shack 50 yards from a corn feeder and wait for deer to come by looking for a snack.

Don't even get me started on cameras mounted on trees. (they're like scout alts lol)

What do you want? EVE is real Lol

It's not that in EVE players are lazy. They come to the game already being lazy.

Never been hunting have you? Have hunted a lot myself. If I see a big boar I know that boar is there the next day. It doesn't magically disappear. It leaves tracks and damage I can use to follow it. It's not in one of +7000 paddocks in the area. It's not alerted by a 100% accurate red star icon when I drive up in it's area.

EvE is nothing like actual hunting

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Valkin Mordirc
#63 - 2016-09-09 08:52:59 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
People have habits you should study what they do and then use it against them. I know hunters who camp supers for weeks before getting the kill.

Just sounds like you want it on a silver platter without any actual effort



There is a major difference. You talking about a multi-billion dollar Super

to a sub-billion subcap


Saying that both should require equal amount of work to catch is ridiculous.



#DeleteTheWeak
Valkin Mordirc
#64 - 2016-09-09 09:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Malcanis wrote:
DioKahn wrote:
The changes to Watch Lists have affected highsec wars and mercenary work. It's almost annoying just looking for a war target. Camping Jita is not my idea of fun. Locator agents say the same thing whether the target is offline or not. I understand protecting capital pilots in null sec has been the goal of the changes but it's making War boring. I suggest you keep Watch Lists disabled in NULL SEC and working perfectly again in HIGH SEC. Bring back real mercenaries and content to high sec please.


Hypothetically, you could choose to wardec corps you know something about, had some some scouting and research on and had a reason to dec other than farming.




Which we have said multiple times.


People's habits change when they get decced. Making weeks worth of intel work completely ******* useless once the dec drops.

You go to the park everyday yeah? Its part of your daily routine,
And I come up and say, "HEY! In 24 hours IMMA DECK YAH IN THE SHNOZZE"

Are you seriously going to go the park the next day?

Also, Highsec corps do not consolidate in a certain systems. It's not a normal thing. They are scattered. So intel work in a dense area like highsec, is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.



This is the most annoying thing about Wardec,

People are so infused with the idea that Wardec's are easymode, always bitching and moaning about them. But when it comes to making an argument against them, it's incredibly obviously they are only using the idea's that other people who ***** about wardecs are saying people who have no idea how it actually works. But will sit there and throw countless idea's out in Ignorance about how "WARDECS CAN BE FIXED BY X"


It's like if I run around and say all people do in Null is blob and press F1 and sometime click a MWD and let it run for a cycle. Which is completely inaccurate due to a complete misunderstanding on how nullsec fleet combat works.


The most aggravating thing when it comes to a debate like this, is you are debating someone who THINKS they know what they are talking about, but in reality are just using the same rehashed tripe that comes down from people the annoying mentality that TRUE PvP comes from some other X area of space.

Like somehow Lowsec PVP is pure, Or Nullsec PVP is pure and every where else isn't because it's "Broken and I don't have the time to try to understand how it works because Lol"
#DeleteTheWeak
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2016-09-09 09:02:30 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
People have habits you should study what they do and then use it against them. I know hunters who camp supers for weeks before getting the kill.

Just sounds like you want it on a silver platter without any actual effort



There is a major difference. You talking about a multi-billion dollar Super

to a sub-billion subcap


Saying that both should require equal amount of work to catch is ridiculous.




I must say I never supported watch lists myself. The super thing was ******** as was the 100% free Intel for wardecs. Removingt the watchlist was IMO good. Not replacing it's with even skill based partial functionality was itself a ******** move.

The right way to have gone may have been skills and perhaps a module for covert ops ships so you could acquire Intel, or at the very minimum add (offline) or (online) to the agent query result.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Valkin Mordirc
#66 - 2016-09-09 09:09:32 UTC
I completely agree with the watchlist changes.


What I disagree with has been the broad and unthinking stroke that ccp used to fix it.
#DeleteTheWeak
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#67 - 2016-09-09 09:27:00 UTC
likewise, for the last six months we have been saying the same thing, which is pretty much
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Removingt the watchlist was IMO good. Not replacing it's with even skill based partial functionality was itself a ******** move.

none of us mind doing work or pushing ourselves a bit further for the intell but not to the point of burn out.
which is pretty much whats called for now.
that or become a hub humping degenerate.

the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.

this way
i cant know where you are logged off unless i follow you there and watch you logoff
i cant gather intell on you while you are not playing the game
this does not scale well with larger groups
its delayed
there is no notification that you have logged on or off so it goes from a passive tool to an active one
its a **** tone of busy work
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2016-09-09 09:32:40 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
likewise, for the last six months we have been saying the same thing, which is pretty much
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Removingt the watchlist was IMO good. Not replacing it's with even skill based partial functionality was itself a ******** move.

none of us mind doing work or pushing ourselves a bit further for the intell but not to the point of burn out.
which is pretty much whats called for now.
that or become a hub humping degenerate.

the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.

this way
i cant know where you are logged off unless i follow you there and watch you logoff
i cant gather intell on you while you are not playing the game
this does not scale well with larger groups
its delayed
there is no notification that you have logged on or off so it goes from a passive tool to an active one
its a **** tone of busy work

That's pretty good yeah. There's a counter to it too. You simply ask your members to stay logged on during wars. Seems like a decent compromise.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#69 - 2016-09-09 09:54:15 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.



Did you post that in Features and Ideas? If you did post link and I'll necro it as being a good idea to at least get the ball rolling.


Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
#70 - 2016-09-09 09:58:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Celeste Coeval
New Item: Tracking Bug

Fits to a hidden rig slot

Fired from core probe launcher (non aggressive action if used with passive targeter, flags suspect if not used in tandem with module)

Attaches to target ship, Repackaging is the only way to remove the rig unless we have some sort of nanite thing to root them out.

Pings you when engines are active and lights up on the map

Cloaking and wormholes/new 0.0 spai arrays can obfuscate signal

Target can only detect the tracker rig if some scans their ship with a ship scanner, and only at point blank range.

Limited range of operation, requires you to be in X lightyears to work, which keeps locator functionality.

Voila, new fun game mechanics, new indy stuff to build and lots of paranoid targets.

Discuss
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#71 - 2016-09-09 10:25:58 UTC
Celeste Coeval wrote:
New Item: Tracking Bug

....
Discuss



Ship alarms should go off when I cruise by and I should hear static on in game music from time to time.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#72 - 2016-09-09 11:00:09 UTC
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.



Did you post that in Features and Ideas? If you did post link and I'll necro it as being a good idea to at least get the ball rolling.



no but Raz has been beating CCP Goliath about the head with it for months now.

ill sort it shortly though
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#73 - 2016-09-09 11:40:15 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.



Did you post that in Features and Ideas? If you did post link and I'll necro it as being a good idea to at least get the ball rolling.



no but Raz has been beating CCP Goliath about the head with it for months now.

ill sort it shortly though

He has my support. I would go back to highsec wardecs if they enact that. Lol
Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#74 - 2016-09-09 15:05:25 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.



Did you post that in Features and Ideas? If you did post link and I'll necro it as being a good idea to at least get the ball rolling.



no but Raz has been beating CCP Goliath about the head with it for months now.

ill sort it shortly though

Will keep an eye on it.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#75 - 2016-09-09 16:17:35 UTC
Starrakatt wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

the tweak i have been pushing for months now is : locator agents cease to function on offline players.



Did you post that in Features and Ideas? If you did post link and I'll necro it as being a good idea to at least get the ball rolling.



no but Raz has been beating CCP Goliath about the head with it for months now.

ill sort it shortly though

Will keep an eye on it.

Boop here we are.
DioKahn
RedStar Inc
R I O T
#76 - 2016-12-01 05:45:26 UTC
I get as much value from using this forum as I do from Youtube comments. Bye. Roll
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2016-12-01 06:07:39 UTC
DioKahn wrote:
I get as much value from using this forum as I do from Youtube comments. Bye. Roll

If people don't like your idea of "Please bring back my free intel" and you spit the dummy.

Maybe Merc work is not for you.

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.

Black Pedro
Mine.
#78 - 2016-12-01 10:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Forget even wardecs for a second. Much of Eve gameplay (and the most engaging of it in my opinion) is built upon continued interactions between the players, so it makes no sense for players to have no way to determine if their opponent is online.

Take killrights and bounties for instance in this hypothetical example. Say some player loses a hauler or exploration ship while in lowsec and is podded. They want vengeance and notice that the pirate has a significant bounty on them. They have this killright, so they decide to stalk them knowing that even in highsec, they can engage and kill them for some of that bounty and sweet revenge.

So they spend the next few hours studying killboards, come up with a fit they think will work, and rope their friends into being on standby to provide some sneaky remote reps when they give the call and then log off. The next day they log in and run a locator finding the target is 15 jumps away. They slog on over only to find the target not in local. The ask their friend to run another locator to see if target has moved, and wait around only to find out the target is still there in the station and thus logged off. They say 'drat' and fly back home after wasting 45 minutes of their time. They try this again the next day after finding the target is in a different system deep in lowsec. They trudge on over and do another locate, only to find yet again, the target is not online. At this point they throw up their hands, say "**** it" and give up on their plans to get satisfaction and return to grinding exploration sites and doing PI.

This is not good game design CCP. We get that instant and free intel on people logging in was OP, but the current systems to locate other players to carry on your feud are now insufficient. It is not workable that hunting someone requires a massive manpower-intensive intel networks, or corporate infiltration just to know if your opponent is even vulnerable. It's like if you provided no information on the next vulnerable window of a citadel - how broken would that be? Sure, you'd still have people here (mostly carebear citadel owners) saying "get good" and telling you to go camp that citadel for 24/7 until you figure out when you can attack, but that is far too tedious to be practical.

Yes, I am aware there are non-official workarounds, but there really needs to be more, sanctioned ways to know when your targets are active. Whether that is a change to locator functionality, new tracking modules or items, or new structures in space, something needs to be done to let players find each other if you want players stories to still be told (or at least more interesting than "I flew to Jita and then I exploded"), especially by the small groups and solo players. They don't have to be free, they don't have to be instant, and they don't have to be invulnerable, but more needs to exist for hunters in a game where logging out means you are 100% invulnerable to attack.
2Sonas1Cup
#79 - 2016-12-01 10:58:58 UTC
OP has a point and all I see from people replies in this thread is salt.. a full load of it.

@op the whinning kids cry out too loud and CCP always does what they want instead of what's good for the game.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#80 - 2016-12-01 11:00:18 UTC
CCP just needs to change locator agents to return a "I'm sorry the target has gone to ground" or "we were unable to locate your target" if the target is offline.