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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Watch Lists in High Sec

Author
Solecist Project
#21 - 2016-09-06 22:57:56 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
In RL hunter works without anyone notify him 'your target woke up and is leaving it's den'. In Rl you NEED to know who are you hunting BEFORE you start.

Recent (not really 'recent' tho) changes made EVE 'hunters' feel what real hunters can feel.

I don't see much problems here.

Dude.
In real life it's easy.
People can't log off!

Your analogy is invalid!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#22 - 2016-09-06 23:45:28 UTC
Maybe consider changing 'why' you declare war.
If you are looking to farm cheap kills, of course you are having problems.
If you are declaring war for a strategic reason, to push a competitor out of a sector of space, to take their citadel down, etc, then there is no problem. If they log off for the week, victory, if they don't undock, victory.

I'm not against locator agents getting online/offline status notifications, but the main issue comes from the why behind the war, not anything else.
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2016-09-06 23:45:42 UTC
Just here to point out it work bothways tho: targets don't logoff as soon as a WT comes online either. So there's that I suppose.
Keno Skir
#24 - 2016-09-07 00:08:18 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Just here to point out it work bothways tho: targets don't logoff as soon as a WT comes online either. So there's that I suppose.


^ Legit
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#25 - 2016-09-07 10:06:38 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
...Post with your main or don't talk about things you have no clue of.



TBH, the reason that I have posted with forum alts for the last 10 years is because it really annoys the regulars when they can't use the poster's KB, Corp History or anything like that when they can't come up with a valid counter point to what has been posted.

This forum should be about ideas and counter ideas not about pompous self-important personalities.


Not sure why you're so worried about people looking at your killboard or what corp you're in.. Unless you just want to hide from the general backlash of what you say here. I kinda figure if you're gonna be inflammatory you gotta use your main, or you're just hiding plain and simple..


Not worried about it all.

That people who think you need to use you mains to make your words mean anything is the reason I rub their face it in and refuse to post with my main char, and I'm not the only one by far.

I just find it funny when you start seeing all the nested replies from the same few posters starting to say each others' point of view is invalid due to something about their in game characters.

Kind of like when one starts losing an argument they start talking about someone's mother, or on these forums, how bad they and everyone they fly are at internets Pvp. Roll

I actually find it kind of funny when someone demands that I post with my main. Shows how intellectually weak they truly are.

oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#26 - 2016-09-07 10:15:39 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
...Post with your main or don't talk about things you have no clue of.



TBH, the reason that I have posted with forum alts for the last 10 years is because it really annoys the regulars when they can't use the poster's KB, Corp History or anything like that when they can't come up with a valid counter point to what has been posted.

This forum should be about ideas and counter ideas not about pompous self-important personalities.


...snip...
That's the issue regarding npc alts and nothing else. Using a forum alt denies any credibility..


Only to some of the forum regulars who rely on in-game information to try and win their arguments when all else fails. Most rely on what one says regardless of the name and in-game organizations they belong to.

It is kind of amusing to see some get so pissy when you dare to not post with your main though.

oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#27 - 2016-09-07 10:26:32 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
In RL hunter works without anyone notify him 'your target woke up and is leaving it's den'. In Rl you NEED to know who are you hunting BEFORE you start.

Recent (not really 'recent' tho) changes made EVE 'hunters' feel what real hunters can feel.

I don't see much problems here.

Dude.
In real life it's easy.
People can't log off!

Your analogy is invalid!


Actually its not.

RL hunters can go a long time sometimes several seasons to find game they are looking for. It takes a lot of practice and preparation during and outside the seasons.

Sometimes where you find game the week before the season started, your game can decide to completely move out of your area and essentially disappear the first day of the season.

Now granted no RL and in-game analogy will ever be 100% the same but knowing when someone logs into and leaves the game along with being able to track what systems they are in via locating agents was PvP on training wheels.

Now you need to actually undock and personally fly to different systems to see if any of your targets are around. Now information isn't spoon fed to you, you actually need to interact in game beyond sitting in station to find your targets. You know, actually play the game....

I realize those who where used to PvP on easy mode in Hi Sec are annoyed about this, but sometimes you actually need to work for your intel and not have it dropped all nice and neat in your lap.

Solecist Project
#28 - 2016-09-07 11:13:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Please use the appropriate words.
You mean "victim" and not "game" andi have no idea how "seasons" fit into this at all.

This is EVE. It's always hunting season!

In RL it is DAMN eas< to find someone and not lose sight of him.
They can not log off. They can only go to sleep and then you just need to wait there for them to come out again.
In a game it's not that simple, because they could be logged off for weeks or simply use an alt.


Try again, but please put more thought into it.

"i realize those who where used to PvP on easy mode in Hi Sec are annoyed about this, but sometimes you actually need to work for your intel and not have it dropped all nice and neat in your lap."

You don't get to talk down on others while hiding behind a forum alt.
You're just a coward. Post with your main, you manchild.
And talking about things you have no clue of makes it worse.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#29 - 2016-09-07 12:06:57 UTC
Solecist Project
#30 - 2016-09-07 12:15:34 UTC

This video is not available.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Toriessian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2016-09-07 13:48:54 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
In RL hunter works without anyone notify him 'your target woke up and is leaving it's den'. In Rl you NEED to know who are you hunting BEFORE you start.

Recent (not really 'recent' tho) changes made EVE 'hunters' feel what real hunters can feel.

I don't see much problems here.


Ironically 3/4 of the RL hunters I know use the "Jita" method of hunting. They sit in a shack 50 yards from a corn feeder and wait for deer to come by looking for a snack.

Don't even get me started on cameras mounted on trees. (they're like scout alts lol)

Every day I'm wafflin!

Valkin Mordirc
#32 - 2016-09-07 13:51:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
oiukhp Muvila wrote:


Actually its not.

RL hunters can go a long time sometimes several seasons to find game they are looking for. It takes a lot of practice and preparation during and outside the seasons.

Sometimes where you find game the week before the season started, your game can decide to completely move out of your area and essentially disappear the first day of the season.

Now granted no RL and in-game analogy will ever be 100% the same but knowing when someone logs into and leaves the game along with being able to track what systems they are in via locating agents was PvP on training wheels.

Now you need to actually undock and personally fly to different systems to see if any of your targets are around. Now information isn't spoon fed to you, you actually need to interact in game beyond sitting in station to find your targets. You know, actually play the game....

I realize those who where used to PvP on easy mode in Hi Sec are annoyed about this, but sometimes you actually need to work for your intel and not have it dropped all nice and neat in your lap.




Your posting smells of biased ideals. You have a hate towards highsec which is either caused by your own misfortunes from a non-specific group, or you are using the idea's of another as your own. Maybe a combination of them both.

You both tried to defend the argument that Mercs can still be a hunter in High, but then invalidated it with in the next paragraph.


I can understand putting a weeks worth of prep into getting a big kill. Like an Incursion Vindi, or a Ratting Carrier.

However most Wartargets are not in 1.5+ bil ships. They are in Subcaps. Maybe a blinged Battleship, but larglely it's going to be sub bill ships.

A weeks worth of prep time is not worth the effort for **** like that. If I wanted to go out and get a few KM's and have fun I can run to low/Null and have at it. I do it all the time.

However that isn't a reason to invalidate a playstyle.

There is no reason invalidate a playstyle especially because Nullbears were upset.


Although arguing with you is a fruitless endeavor as your demeanor already shows that you are dead set in believing whatever information you want to be right and will not listen to others out of pride and arrogance. So why I even bother to post this is beyond me.
#DeleteTheWeak
VicturusTeSaluto
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2016-09-07 22:03:42 UTC
High sec, low sec, w-space, 0.0. The goal of this change, like virtually every other change made during the last 10 years is to make combat less likely to occur and to make eve a more safe place. I can't even tell if my targets still play the damn deserted game anymore.

The lesson of eve was supposed to be that there is no "safe", ever.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#34 - 2016-09-07 22:47:45 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
In RL hunter works without anyone notify him 'your target woke up and is leaving it's den'. In Rl you NEED to know who are you hunting BEFORE you start.

Recent (not really 'recent' tho) changes made EVE 'hunters' feel what real hunters can feel.

I don't see much problems here.

In real life individuals can't disappear from the universe at will.
oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#35 - 2016-09-08 05:24:37 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:

Although arguing with you is a fruitless endeavor as your demeanor already shows that you are dead set in believing whatever information you want to be right and will not listen to others out of pride and arrogance. So why I even bother to post this is beyond me.


What it boils down to is that old style buddy list in combination to locating agents made it super easy to track people down for what ever purposes.

Players got used to that crutch and many established play styles that are now invalidated since that crutch has been removed.

You are right this is a game and what we have is not ideal, but it is far better than what it was and CCP will most likely, after some time has passed, will revisit the issue and may come up with something more balanced and in-between than what was then and what we have now.

You are right, I am biased, as all of us are to some degree. I never relied on those two mechanics for my dominate play styles over the years. I went from Hi Sec mission runner to Null Sec renter, to Low Sec pirate, back to Null Sec for a very short time then have mainly been a Low Sec pirate for the last 6 years, with some Hi Sec ganking here and there.

As with anything is this game, the current situation is temporary, and some time in the future there may be a mechanic that will replace the severely flawed one that existed before.

I only suggest you recognize the flawed nature of the original, develop some new gameplay or take a break, an maybe help develop a new system by posting something in Features and Ideas. Maybe I'll even post my feedback, on one of my Forum alts. Blink
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#36 - 2016-09-08 15:42:29 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
DioKahn wrote:
The changes to Watch Lists have affected highsec wars and mercenary work. It's almost annoying just looking for a war target. Camping Jita is not my idea of fun. Locator agents say the same thing whether the target is offline or not. I understand protecting capital pilots in null sec has been the goal of the changes but it's making War boring. I suggest you keep Watch Lists disabled in NULL SEC and working perfectly again in HIGH SEC. Bring back real mercenaries and content to high sec please.


What's your goal with wardecs?

To shoot ships? Best come to low/null - there's tons to shoot, and no watch lists needed because you can shoot anything you see.

To shoot structures? Find a structure, wardec the corp, and shoot the structure - since you don't care about shooting ships, you shouldn't care about watch listing the pilots.



But...but...they might be ready and able to shoot back...

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson

Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#37 - 2016-09-08 15:44:04 UTC
Toriessian wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
In RL hunter works without anyone notify him 'your target woke up and is leaving it's den'. In Rl you NEED to know who are you hunting BEFORE you start.

Recent (not really 'recent' tho) changes made EVE 'hunters' feel what real hunters can feel.

I don't see much problems here.


Ironically 3/4 of the RL hunters I know use the "Jita" method of hunting. They sit in a shack 50 yards from a corn feeder and wait for deer to come by looking for a snack.

Don't even get me started on cameras mounted on trees. (they're like scout alts lol)


As a hunter, let me just say...that isn't hunting Roll

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson

Rawmeat Mary
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#38 - 2016-09-08 16:21:30 UTC
Deck Cadelanne wrote:
Toriessian wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
In RL hunter works without anyone notify him 'your target woke up and is leaving it's den'. In Rl you NEED to know who are you hunting BEFORE you start.

Recent (not really 'recent' tho) changes made EVE 'hunters' feel what real hunters can feel.

I don't see much problems here.


Ironically 3/4 of the RL hunters I know use the "Jita" method of hunting. They sit in a shack 50 yards from a corn feeder and wait for deer to come by looking for a snack.

Don't even get me started on cameras mounted on trees. (they're like scout alts lol)


As a hunter, let me just say...that isn't hunting Roll

How would be ganking in RL hunting?

I get that image: 10 guys, in a shack, waiting for that Moose to show up. With rocket launchers and .50 machineguns.

Claymore hunting?

'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing. And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'

Yeah, we're like that.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#39 - 2016-09-08 16:56:19 UTC
DioKahn wrote:
The changes to Watch Lists have affected highsec wars and mercenary work. It's almost annoying just looking for a war target. Camping Jita is not my idea of fun. Locator agents say the same thing whether the target is offline or not. I understand protecting capital pilots in null sec has been the goal of the changes but it's making War boring. I suggest you keep Watch Lists disabled in NULL SEC and working perfectly again in HIGH SEC. Bring back real mercenaries and content to high sec please.


Hypothetically, you could choose to wardec corps you know something about, had some some scouting and research on and had a reason to dec other than farming.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2016-09-08 20:11:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
When I was wardeccing my war started about 2 weeks before the dec.

First I'd choose an alliance that wouldn't run / disband. Then I'd use online tools to find every active in the alliance. Then I'd scout them out, find their hubs, pos etc. Position nuetral alts at those locations. I'd also create an opportunity for interaction with one of their members (take a barge to a belt where one is ratting / mining) and usually get invited into corporation.

Once you have a spy in alliance, well...

If you're just declaring war on people and sitting at a gate you're not going to have much luck.

Just saying.

Edit:

One thing I'll concede though is the location agents are pretty poor. An improvement would be the following:

A skill line that allows:

1. Repeating locates - where the agent gives you 15 minute locates repeatedly on a person
2. Remote locates
3. Locates that includes whether the pilot is active or offline.

Maybe an Intelligence tree like this:

Intelligence Operations - Reduces time between locations by 10% per level
Intelligence Connections - Allows remote access to locator agents - level 1 system, level 3 constellation, level 5 region
Bounty Hunting - Allows repeating locates 1 per 30 minutes - 10% interval reduction per level

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)