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Watch Lists in High Sec

Author
Salvos Rhoska
#101 - 2016-12-01 15:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Remiel and Agondray:

Gentlemen, lets not "regress" to comparing our military backgrounds.

Each has his own, and good for us if we can apply what we have learned to EVE, or to inform discussion on this topic.
Can ofc mention them for a few superficial "i know what im talking about" points, but thats about it.

Our military know-how is not relevant to the topic of discussion, which is ingame mechanics, as they extend to content and opportunity., unless said know-how can inform a solution.

This issue is already controversial enough, long-past review enough, discussion on it dispersed enough, the challenges to overcome them vertical enough, that further military based epeen derailing does neither of you, nor the issue (which is central to you both) any good.

In the Finnish military we have an old saying for this kind of thing:
-"Kuset omaan pakkiin"
Translation:
-"You are pissing into your own mess kit"

Meaning, roughly, dont **** where you eat.
Dont **** on your own interests.
Especially if that is what you need to survive.

I would think both of you, USA and AUS respectively, have similar military axioms that express this same wisdom.

Remember your objectives, gentlemen, and direct your action accordingly.
Sugar Smacks
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2016-12-01 21:53:40 UTC
The watchlist was just a stalking list by a different name.

Exactly how is the game telling people exactly when someone logs on realistic?
What other game does that?
How is that even appropriate or fair for newer players?
What successful game encourages stalking by adding mechanics to make it possible?

Is there a realistic argument here without trying to change the subject altogether by asking about someones personal experience?

Seems some pvprs got spoiled by an outdated system and found that actual work was too much work to actually legitly do what was being handed to them for years.

I personally don't believe the objective of any game should be to run a player out of it. Watchlisting encourage this behavior, which is not good for the life of EvE in general.

But we can see what you really care about here "yourself" and not the community altogether.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2016-12-01 22:03:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Remiel and Agondray:

Gentlemen, lets not "regress" to comparing our military backgrounds.

Each has his own, and good for us if we can apply what we have learned to EVE, or to inform discussion on this topic.
Can ofc mention them for a few superficial "i know what im talking about" points, but thats about it.

Our military know-how is not relevant to the topic of discussion, which is ingame mechanics, as they extend to content and opportunity., unless said know-how can inform a solution.

This issue is already controversial enough, long-past review enough, discussion on it dispersed enough, the challenges to overcome them vertical enough, that further military based epeen derailing does neither of you, nor the issue (which is central to you both) any good.

In the Finnish military we have an old saying for this kind of thing:
-"Kuset omaan pakkiin"
Translation:
-"You are pissing into your own mess kit"

Meaning, roughly, dont **** where you eat.
Dont **** on your own interests.
Especially if that is what you need to survive.

I would think both of you, USA and AUS respectively, have similar military axioms that express this same wisdom.

Remember your objectives, gentlemen, and direct your action accordingly.


Did you miss the part where I explained that military experience doesn't translate into the game? I just call out bull**** where I see it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2016-12-01 22:05:48 UTC
More QQ'ing from the high sec gankers who can't fill up their kill boards as quickly with noob frigate and Indy kills. Why don't you go to low wh and null for pvp? Oh yeah.. because you'll actually get shot at there.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#105 - 2016-12-01 22:09:24 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:
More QQ'ing from the high sec gankers who can't fill up their kill boards as quickly with noob frigate and Indy kills. Why don't you go to low wh and null for pvp? Oh yeah.. because you'll actually get shot at there.

More shitposts from behind forum alts who are afraid of catching a war.

Post on your main and I might give you a real response.
Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2016-12-01 22:09:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Sugar Smacks wrote:
The watchlist was just a stalking list by a different name.

...

Is there a realistic argument here without trying to change the subject altogether by asking about someones personal experience?

Seems some pvprs got spoiled by an outdated system and found that actual work was too much work to actually legitly do what was being handed to them for years.

I personally don't believe the objective of any game should be to run a player out of it. Watchlisting encourage this behavior, which is not good for the life of EvE in general.

But we can see what you really care about here "yourself" and not the community altogether.

There are a few things here.

Firstly on the stalking thing, I kind of agree. I know a couple of female players that under the old system had 3-4 private conversation requests the moment they logged in. They didn't want to block the people, but also didn't really appreciate the ability of other players to instantly know when they logged in.

However, this is nothing about spoiled pvpers, nor running players out of the game. Those are just emotive adjectives to describe something you don't personally like. Not liking something is fine, but that doesn't mean people who do like it are wrong either.

On the logical side, the argument in favour of the watchlist is that the current situation isn't good for anyone. No one likes the way wardeccing has adjusted to strongly favour hub humping as the optimal way to play.

Because people can't hunt characters in game, the best way to play is to dec everyone and let the content come to you.

So in a purely practical sense, it suits everyone to change the current situation. It would be an improvement both for wardeccers and for defenders.

If you can hunt other characters, you can go looking for them, rather than just waiting for characters. That will result in fewer wars (as before), encourage smaller mercenary groups (rather than only large groups like now) and potentially incresase the opportunities to catch isolated wardeccers that are out hunting, rather than trying to hit a mass of opposition that can dock and reship anytime.

One way to do that is to bring back the watchlist. The logic is fairly easy to see in that respect.
Chiara O'Nyx
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2016-12-01 22:26:58 UTC
Watchlist were just a free intel button. There are already free locator agents. EvE needs less free buttons and more emergent gameplay. It is a sandbox afterall!

So why can't there emerge spying or detective mercs who specialise in gathering (and selling) intel. If you need to locate, stalk, or have eyes on the target, hire someone to do it for you. Get on the comms, sync your gank. is it really that hard?

Harder than having a watchlist button for sure..

Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2016-12-01 22:31:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Chiara O'Nyx wrote:
Watchlist were just a free intel button. There are already free locator agents. EvE needs less free buttons and more emergent gameplay. It is a sandbox afterall!

So why can't there emerge spying or detective mercs who specialise in gathering (and selling) intel. If you need to locate, stalk, or have eyes on the target, hire someone to do it for you. Get on the comms, sync your gank. is it really that hard?

Harder than having a watchlist button for sure..


You can't hunt people that aren't online.

Emergent gameplay has happened. It's emerged that the best way to run a war now is to just dec everyone and wait for them to come to you. Even though that isn't ideal for anyone (on either side), that's the most effective way for wardeccers to play since the watchlist changes.
Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2016-12-01 22:35:02 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Kara Hawke wrote:
More QQ'ing from the high sec gankers who can't fill up their kill boards as quickly with noob frigate and Indy kills. Why don't you go to low wh and null for pvp? Oh yeah.. because you'll actually get shot at there.

More shitposts from behind forum alts who are afraid of catching a war.

Post on your main and I might give you a real response.


Exactly why I post on an alt. My mains corporation is already in one never ending harassment war from precisely the kind of tool the OP and possibly you are.
Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2016-12-01 22:42:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Kara Hawke wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Kara Hawke wrote:
More QQ'ing from the high sec gankers who can't fill up their kill boards as quickly with noob frigate and Indy kills. Why don't you go to low wh and null for pvp? Oh yeah.. because you'll actually get shot at there.

More shitposts from behind forum alts who are afraid of catching a war.

Post on your main and I might give you a real response.


Exactly why I post on an alt. My mains corporation is already in one never ending harassment war from precisely the kind of tool the OP and possibly you are.

But, when you say this:

Why don't you go to low wh and null for pvp?

If you are in a permawardec, why don't you go to low, wh or null to get away from it?

Afterall, by the logic outlined, the wardeccers won't follow you there (which actually isn't true for all of them).

And that's of course where the logic breaks down and why these comments are pointless. You have every right to choose to be in highsec for your play. Wardeccers have that exact same right. Neither is a choice that is bad and neighter deserve the qq comments, just for choosing a perfectly valid style of play.
Kara Hawke
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2016-12-01 22:46:35 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kara Hawke wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Kara Hawke wrote:
More QQ'ing from the high sec gankers who can't fill up their kill boards as quickly with noob frigate and Indy kills. Why don't you go to low wh and null for pvp? Oh yeah.. because you'll actually get shot at there.

More shitposts from behind forum alts who are afraid of catching a war.

Post on your main and I might give you a real response.


Exactly why I post on an alt. My mains corporation is already in one never ending harassment war from precisely the kind of tool the OP and possibly you are.

But, when you say this:

Why don't you go to low wh and null for pvp?

If you are in a permawardec, why don't you go to low, wh or null to get away from it?

Afterall, the wardeccers won't follow you there.

And that's of course where the logic breaks down and why these comments are pointless. You have every right to choose to be in highsec for your play. Wardeccers have that exact same right. Neither is a choice that is bad.


Lol we could go to low, wh or null, but how would that solve our problem of being killed/harassed?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#112 - 2016-12-01 22:49:53 UTC
oiukhp Muvila wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
...Post with your main or don't talk about things you have no clue of.



TBH, the reason that I have posted with forum alts for the last 10 years is because it really annoys the regulars when they can't use the poster's KB, Corp History or anything like that when they can't come up with a valid counter point to what has been posted.

This forum should be about ideas and counter ideas not about pompous self-important personalities.

but my pompous self-important personality is all I have left Sad

anyways highsec wars are something of a shitshow, I'm not convinced the watch list would help or hurt improve the situation.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2016-12-01 22:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Kara Hawke wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kara Hawke wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Kara Hawke wrote:
More QQ'ing from the high sec gankers who can't fill up their kill boards as quickly with noob frigate and Indy kills. Why don't you go to low wh and null for pvp? Oh yeah.. because you'll actually get shot at there.

More shitposts from behind forum alts who are afraid of catching a war.

Post on your main and I might give you a real response.


Exactly why I post on an alt. My mains corporation is already in one never ending harassment war from precisely the kind of tool the OP and possibly you are.

But, when you say this:

Why don't you go to low wh and null for pvp?

If you are in a permawardec, why don't you go to low, wh or null to get away from it?

Afterall, the wardeccers won't follow you there.

And that's of course where the logic breaks down and why these comments are pointless. You have every right to choose to be in highsec for your play. Wardeccers have that exact same right. Neither is a choice that is bad.


Lol we could go to low, wh or null, but how would that solve our problem of being killed/harassed?

Well harassment is very rare in the game to begin with. If it happens, you should report it. CCP have a pretty clear policy against harassment.

As for how it would stop you dying, that would be up to you and how you play, but it is certainly possible to play in both lowsec and nullsec and die almost never.

But if you are concerned about a permawardec, moving away from it is just a valid suggestion as telling someone else they should move for their play style.
Wanda Fayne
#114 - 2016-12-01 22:54:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
CCP just needs to change locator agents to return a "I'm sorry the target has gone to ground" or "we were unable to locate your target" if the target is offline.


+1

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2016-12-01 23:00:44 UTC
Wanda Fayne wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
CCP just needs to change locator agents to return a "I'm sorry the target has gone to ground" or "we were unable to locate your target" if the target is offline.


+1

++
Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#116 - 2016-12-01 23:28:08 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:
Lol we could go to low, wh or null, but how would that solve our problem of being killed/harassed?

Yes, people will try to hunt and kill you in Low, WH and Nul. And Hisec too, yes. EVE being a PVP centric game.

If you see being 'harassed' (define harrased please) and killed in EVE as a problem, then are you asking for a PVP free zone to play in? Such as hisec?

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2016-12-02 01:31:07 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:
More QQ'ing from the high sec gankers who can't fill up their kill boards as quickly with noob frigate and Indy kills. Why don't you go to low wh and null for pvp? Oh yeah.. because you'll actually get shot at there.


No you don't. Everyone runs away from me in nul and wh, and I mean everyone. You're all a pack of predictable cloaky cowards tbqfh.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#118 - 2016-12-02 01:32:18 UTC
What did you just say about me, you little scrub? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Republic Fleet, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Provibloc, and I have over 2000 confirmed kills. I am trained in bonobo warfare and I’m the top solo killer in Karmafleet. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before in the cluster, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying that to me on the Eve-O forums? Think again, noob. As we speak I am contacting my locator agents so you better prepare for the storm. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your stats. Your isk efficiency is dead, kid. I can jumpclone anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over nine thousand ways, and that’s just with a rookie ship fitted with belt rat loot. Not only am I extensively trained in awoxing, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the ship tree and I will use it to its full extent to wipe you off the face of the galaxy. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have deleted your post. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you low sp scrublord. I will dps all over you and you will drown in it. You’re a future statistic, kiddo.






Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2016-12-02 01:39:29 UTC
Kara Hawke wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Kara Hawke wrote:
More QQ'ing from the high sec gankers who can't fill up their kill boards as quickly with noob frigate and Indy kills. Why don't you go to low wh and null for pvp? Oh yeah.. because you'll actually get shot at there.

More shitposts from behind forum alts who are afraid of catching a war.

Post on your main and I might give you a real response.


Exactly why I post on an alt. My mains corporation is already in one never ending harassment war from precisely the kind of tool the OP and possibly you are.


And yet, no one wardecs me.... I wonder why?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#120 - 2016-12-02 03:39:41 UTC
Galaxy Mule wrote:
I think making the watchlist work in Highsec only is a fine idea. Can anyone actually give a reason as to why it isn't, or are we all just going to personally attack the OP and scream about "post with your main!"?


The problem with watchlists is they provided instant intel the second the super/titan logged in which is why they got nuked. Locator agents do not work in this way so there is no reason to shoehorn mercs and bounty hunters to only highsec.