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[118.6] Recurring Opportunity removal

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Vector End
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#301 - 2016-06-28 20:33:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vector End
Playing a character with less than 5 million skill points I will admit this feature had me logging in every day (or at least I tried). There are barriers to entry in this game, and it is dependent on your skill point. With these Opportunities I could see and do something that had an impact on trying to get into the the next level (5 million skill point level). Now some days I just logged on shot a rat and logged. And that might have been seen as gaming the system, but that is really all I could do other than spend money to reach my goal of 5 million skill points (a 2 million skill point character really doesn't have a lot of option to PLEX or earn enough isk for injectors). I now wonder if the reason this was pulled so quickly was that it had an impact on CCPs bottom line. Was this giving New player just enough of an incentive that by logging in for a couple days they would get enough skill points for a skill they wanted and that they didn’t feel the need to break open their wallet and buy a skill point injector?
Skipper Riddles
Ivory Vanguard
#302 - 2016-06-28 21:01:38 UTC
So is it just the log in they are looking for, or do they want to retain that player while logged in for more than just a few minutes
Carsten2285
State War Academy
Caldari State
#303 - 2016-06-28 21:01:55 UTC
I liked it.

It DEFINITELY affected my login decision and it helped a LOT with both reducing big training times for experienced characters and also for helping low SP character actually DO something other than "wait 5 days".

I would like to advocate its return, at least for low SP characters.

Maybe make it only available if you have less that 5 Million SP. But please, make it a true "daily" and NOT a 22 hours lockout. Just reset it at downtime.
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
#304 - 2016-06-28 21:24:52 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Maizie Fields wrote:
As a pioneer of the burgeoning skillpoint farming industry, I have mixed feelings on the removal of the dailies.

At the Ranch, we grow new characters or repurpose existing characters into "Harvestable Toons" (or "HTs") by optimizing training attributes (typically to I/M or P/W) and fitting them with +5 implants in order to yield 1,944,000 skillpoints per month. With dailies, we were able to raise the productivity of each Harvestable Toon from 3.8 to 4.0 skill injectors per month by having the HT simply run 6 "Thrill of the Hunt" missions during the month. The effort required minimal time, could be rotated through all three toons per account during a given month, and made for a nice, even 4 injector per month output per toon.

With the removal of dailies, while we lose that productivity benefit, our business becomes more passive. With the time savings, we'll be able to manage more accounts and more toons. The removal of dailies should also modestly increase the demand for skill injectors. Although our profitability per Harvestable Toon will decline, we believe we will be able to maintain and even increase the overall profitability of the business.


I just have this vision of hanging racks of struggling people, screaming as the extractors are put into their heads, a dull glaze forming as they begin to forget things.

Mental note: Do not schedule "spa day."

its more like the Matrix pods P
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
#305 - 2016-06-28 21:29:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Neadayan Drakhon
Skipper Riddles wrote:
Let the new KID fix the problem. A positive solution to a real problem.

We all know that SP is the real Golden Egg the goose lays. Especially for players under 4 years. So we can assume that SP is going to be the real gravitational pull to bring people back into the game consistently. The real issue is how do we deploy this. In the Milky way Galaxy people are becoming lazy with an entitlement factor. We want something for nothing. But in reality to incorporate that into your real time business plan will always lead to certain failure. In New Eden pilots do not have the luxury we have adopted here on earth. If you don't work for it, you don't get it. So this plan not only fits your current game design, but also insists pilots do a little more for the rewards.

I have developed the KID & KIS system...

KID
knowledge Injection Device
KID100
KID150
KID200
KID300
KID500
offering SP respective to the number listed after KID so the KID300 injects 300SP directly to the pilots unallocated SP pool.

Can be found in certain containers in-

Combat sites
Occasionally found by extractors during PI
Looted during data site encounters.
Special reward doing missions - R&D offering an enhanced version.
Once found and looted the result is immediately added as unallocated SP the KID cannot be transported, sold or traded.
Once the KID is handled, the electronic stasis field becomes disabled and the countdown timer of 30 seconds begins if the KID can not make a connection to the KIS, (if a pilot has not purchased one, it will self-destruct after the 30-second timer runs out.)

To avoid exploitation of this device it cannot be dropped during any PVP activity.
(Deployment to the pilot must be contained to a decision making process within your network NPC logic algorithms.)


Works in tandem with-
KIS port - knowledge Injection Service Port.

tech I, tech II, and prototype each capable of wider band width respectively. Will be lost if the clone is killed and will need to be purchased again. Without this clone enhancement, KID will not function and be considered lost or wasted. tech I can allow connections with KID100 and KID150. tech II can make a connection with KID100, KID150, KID200. prototype has full band width and can handle all KID devices. The KIS can be found, built, sold, and traded. This service port should not be expensive, just a requirement for the KID to connect to through neural transceivers. figuring the price at 3 million, 6 million, and 12 million ISK and requires no special skills to be implanted in the clone.

A new twist...

Any pilot with a negative eight nine or ten standings cannot purchase the KIS interpreter anywhere in New Eden and must rely on finding the device on their own in a data site. KIS units can be found and sold on the market or to anyone with a -6 or higher standing. But the KID### can only be deployed through your NPC system.
Pilots with a -10 standing should be considered sanctioned and that port or pathway is shut down or closed until standings higher than -10. Any attempt to make such a connection on a closed or sanctioned port KIS will cause the KID device to self destruct.

The numbers I used need to be changed to fit your balancing routine and a CAP of some value will also need to be assessed & implemented. Hoping because of the additional playtime, the CAP will be higher than 10,000SP

This is a basic structure for your DEV teams. This may take some work, but as stated earlier; "In New Eden, if you don't work for it, you don't get it"

CCP if you want the full scoop, please contact me personally. Skipper

Interesting and well thought out idea, however, no, passive training is the only way SP should be gained in EVE.


John Terence Kelly wrote:
Add a small amount of SP (less than 50) per NPC kill scaled by the tier/eliteness of the NPC like bounties are. If you want to grind SP you can, but make the amount per kill roughly equate the 10k SP we used to get per day if you play something like 2-3 hours a day. Instead of a 3 second belt rat kill this at least would require sustained farming, ammo usage, risk, etc.

No
WarmVasolineLubrication
Pseudopathological Vivisection
#306 - 2016-06-28 21:58:46 UTC
what the hell... this was one of the best features added. it actually made me login everyday.
Chadillac Spillz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#307 - 2016-06-28 22:13:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Chadillac Spillz
Why would you remove the one thing that was a brilliant start to helping new players get settled into Eve. I am still new, but now that I am over 5 million SP I can make enough ISK efficiently to buy Skill Injectors to help up my training for other activities I want to participate in. I saw countless people play the free trial and then never come back because the game grew stagnant for them due to low skill level. I understand the issue here with veterans "sticking it out" and not wanting new players to be handed the game. I also think those veterans should welcome an opportunity to increase player base. Point is, being a new player in the game I realized I could make WAY WAY WAY more money than I was making WAY before my skill level actually allowed me. It was discouraging to say the least and I actually quit after the free trial years ago before trying again. The game got boring because progression was too slow. Anyway, disappointed to see it go. I personally, and can see more than not players, liked the idea.

p.s. just a quick "shame on you" to the "nay-sayers" of Thrill of the Hunt
Rexeva
Doomheim
#308 - 2016-06-28 22:35:46 UTC
Totally agree.
Skipper Riddles
Ivory Vanguard
#309 - 2016-06-28 22:36:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Skipper Riddles
Neadayan Drakhon wrote:
Skipper Riddles wrote:
Let the new KID fix the problem. A positive solution to a real problem.

We all know that SP is the real Golden Egg the goose lays. Especially for players under 4 years. So we can assume that SP is going to be the real gravitational pull to bring people back into the game consistently. The real issue is how do we deploy this. In the Milky way Galaxy people are becoming lazy with an entitlement factor. We want something for nothing. But in reality to incorporate that into your real time business plan will always lead to certain failure. In New Eden pilots do not have the luxury we have adopted here on earth. If you don't work for it, you don't get it. So this plan not only fits your current game design, but also insists pilots do a little more for the rewards.

I have developed the KID & KIS system...

KID
knowledge Injection Device
KID100
KID150
KID200
KID300
KID500
offering SP respective to the number listed after KID so the KID300 injects 300SP directly to the pilots unallocated SP pool.

Can be found in certain containers in-

Combat sites
Occasionally found by extractors during PI
Looted during data site encounters.
Special reward doing missions - R&D offering an enhanced version.
Once found and looted the result is immediately added as unallocated SP the KID cannot be transported, sold or traded.
Once the KID is handled, the electronic stasis field becomes disabled and the countdown timer of 30 seconds begins if the KID can not make a connection to the KIS, (if a pilot has not purchased one, it will self-destruct after the 30-second timer runs out.)

To avoid exploitation of this device it cannot be dropped during any PVP activity.
(Deployment to the pilot must be contained to a decision making process within your network NPC logic algorithms.)


Works in tandem with-
KIS port - knowledge Injection Service Port.

tech I, tech II, and prototype each capable of wider band width respectively. Will be lost if the clone is killed and will need to be purchased again. Without this clone enhancement, KID will not function and be considered lost or wasted. tech I can allow connections with KID100 and KID150. tech II can make a connection with KID100, KID150, KID200. prototype has full band width and can handle all KID devices. The KIS can be found, built, sold, and traded. This service port should not be expensive, just a requirement for the KID to connect to through neural transceivers. figuring the price at 3 million, 6 million, and 12 million ISK and requires no special skills to be implanted in the clone.

A new twist...

Any pilot with a negative eight nine or ten standings cannot purchase the KIS interpreter anywhere in New Eden and must rely on finding the device on their own in a data site. KIS units can be found and sold on the market or to anyone with a -6 or higher standing. But the KID### can only be deployed through your NPC system.
Pilots with a -10 standing should be considered sanctioned and that port or pathway is shut down or closed until standings higher than -10. Any attempt to make such a connection on a closed or sanctioned port KIS will cause the KID device to self destruct.

The numbers I used need to be changed to fit your balancing routine and a CAP of some value will also need to be assessed & implemented. Hoping because of the additional playtime, the CAP will be higher than 10,000SP

This is a basic structure for your DEV teams. This may take some work, but as stated earlier; "In New Eden, if you don't work for it, you don't get it"

CCP if you want the full scoop, please contact me personally. Skipper

Interesting and well thought out idea, however, no, passive training is the only way SP should be gained in EVE.


John Terence Kelly wrote:
Add a small amount of SP (less than 50) per NPC kill scaled by the tier/eliteness of the NPC like bounties are. If you want to grind SP you can, but make the amount per kill roughly equate the 10k SP we used to get per day if you play something like 2-3 hours a day. Instead of a 3 second belt rat kill this at least would require sustained farming, ammo usage, risk, etc.

No


As you can clearly see here 'passive seems to be in the rear view mirror... I want to agree with you, but the deed has been done.

Use of injectors

I do not believe there should be any value difference in the type or strenght to the reward. This will only push new players back farther as better skilled players will then again have that edge we are trying to avoid.
Elabel Menfaron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#310 - 2016-06-28 23:09:47 UTC
As a new player to Eve in this last month, I liked the feature and really appreciated it.

It did keep me logging in most days (occasionally I loggedin specifically just to do the mission) because the 10k boost on SP was a major help to me. Even now I've only got just north of 1m skill points spent and especially in the early days, it helped me to move on in content and use ships or tools that have made a difference.

I don't know why more experienced players didn't like the idea. I'm not experienced so what do I know. But it did really help for newbies like me and I'm personally sorry to see it go.
Memnon Shepard
The Occupation.
#311 - 2016-06-28 23:16:00 UTC
To me it seems they're trying to replace the 10k SP reward with a more advanced reward system that incorporates additional activities like mining. I'm against the idea personally, but I don't think CCP has ruled out adding SP as an event reward in the future either. The "hunts" will at least now have a story line, which I find much more compelling. I had a lot of fun during the Blood Raider event, and if resources are going towards building out more events like this rather than a lame "Click A to collect reward" system, I give two thumbs up to CCP.
Ryan Kildar
ST Stellar
#312 - 2016-06-28 23:38:42 UTC
I for one have enjoyed this feature. I love the 10,000 skill points. I think it would be better if there was a tier system in place for difficulty based on what you are flying. Bottom line logging in tonight I was disappointed that the opportunity had been removed.
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#313 - 2016-06-28 23:46:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Sustrai Aditua
My view? After most skills are III, 10,000 SP isn't much of a leap. Persistently pursuing it (doing a daily rat run) becomes a mini rat race, and you get the feeling you're a mindless automaton. (I prefer to feel like a mindful automaton.)

Recommendation: Variety and a bit of a boost in the reward. Maybe even a two-tier system; 10k for beginners, 100k for those of us who don't mind mindless repetition.

Comment: Most games put a lot more effort in designing a daily. They're considered a significant part of the game. The way this was done made it seem CCP didn't think much of it as an idea. It gets kind of lonely once you feel you're on a fool's errand.

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Titanium Seagull
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#314 - 2016-06-29 00:53:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Titanium Seagull
I've been playing this game off and on with different accounts since 2005ish. I'll play for a year or two, then quit for a few years, and then come back. This is the third incarnation of that cycle and I reactivated the wrong account so I ended up with no high-SP characters to play with. I'm not in a position with a gaming system to do fleet engagements or stuff like that, and the nullsec time sink just seemed too much for my life right now. So whatever, I decided to start over. Grind out some missions, wait for skills to complete, eventually be skilled enough to do fun things solo.

The dailies were the reason I logged in every day. I've got a couple months before I'll be skilled to even really think about doing what I honestly want to do. Now I probably won't, and I'll probably wonder why I'm still paying the EvE bill and shut down my account again.

The dailies were a great thing for new players, or returning players. It's sad to see them go. It doesn't seem like your test ran long enough to see if your data affected new account retention, I think that would be an important metric to look at when doing tests like this, especially in a game that's been around this long. New account retention would be a huge boon.
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
#315 - 2016-06-29 00:53:56 UTC
Skipper Riddles wrote:
As you can clearly see here 'passive seems to be in the rear view mirror... I want to agree with you, but the deed has been done.

Use of injectors

I do not believe there should be any value difference in the type or strenght to the reward. This will only push new players back farther as better skilled players will then again have that edge we are trying to avoid.

Yes, skill trading exists, but it shouldn't.

Skill trading should be completely removed from the game, it should never have been introduced.

I'll say again, passive training is the only way SP should be gained.
Chris Richard
Tax Havens
#316 - 2016-06-29 01:00:34 UTC
Sad to see it's gone, but good thing I have one less thing on my todo list everyday.

Daily quest is really annoying, I prefer HS like 3 slots replaceable, or simply a harder time consuming even multi tiered reward weekly quest. SP is very valuable imo, 10k each day was not a small number to me, it probably worth more than the implants in the long run (well if it were not removed of course) and it stacks!

Right, please do NOT design a PVP orientated quest, if something like "kill a player ship" or "pod a player" I'm really gonna flip my ship/t
SpartanXZero FoxNova
SMS Strategic Military Services
#317 - 2016-06-29 01:11:17 UTC
Speaking as a relatively new player. I found this bit of reward a welcome one. It helped move me along the skill tiers a little more quickly, moving me closer to skills I needed to develop so I could be more capable within the interests I wanted to work on. Or build towards being a more effective pilot.

I could see how other players, older ones disliking the notion. If the reward system was capped with only being rewarded to players under below 1mil SP, non-trial users, or some such conditions, it could still see some benefit without being exploited or guffaw'd at by the veteran crowd.
Boru Pat Dragoon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#318 - 2016-06-29 03:04:00 UTC
I did like this feature the 7 days removed for free was nice. But saying this, it Didn't feel like it was Eve for me? It was like some other bonus taken from another Mmo. It will be missed by my mate who just started eve. He's only 40 days old and use to save the free points for when I told him he need a new skill. Maybe make it harder next time. Kill certain number of rats, build certain numbers or items get on a killmail. I did like the idea, I did kinda of feel cheated I never had this when I started. I had to get SP the old fashion way and wait.
Slando Malrissian
State War Academy
Caldari State
#319 - 2016-06-29 03:39:10 UTC
It would be a shame if this feature gets removed permanently. The players that have left that I have talked to about this feature seemed intrigued and would be interested in coming back if it were expanded upon. I also had added incentive to play every day (even if only for a short while) and now I don't see a need to login daily. However the feature definitely needs to be expanded upon if it is to be a viable draw for people to login daily and to coax players that have quit back to EVE. Daily missions are certainly a step in the right direction for EVE in my opinion.
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#320 - 2016-06-29 04:31:18 UTC

Well....

I can definitively attest to the fact that logging in is less exciting than it was during the period when the Recurring Opportunity to earn 10k SP was in game.

Not only was it a great reward, but you got a small sense of accomplishment. Even if it was a pretty simplistic task.