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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#2081 - 2016-02-14 12:29:07 UTC
So how can you class eve now the skill gate has been removed.

Previously it did not matter how wealthy you were in game or real life and the bazaar offered certain buyer beware concerns to gaining a character worked on by a previous owner.

We have the standard ( what now seems like f2p ) version that at best you can accumulate 2700 ph and generally work the markets / pvp / pve / mine - In for the long haul True EvE style.

Pay CCP subscription

OR

Pay CCP - Extractors
Pay plex - aurum - Extractors
Pay plex - aurum - skins
Pay plex- Injectors - skill points - accelerated toon
Pay plex - Isk - Ships
Pay plex - Isk - Modules
Pay plex - Isk - ????

and

Pay CCP subscription

Its definitely pay 2 something ....... laugh there bollox off all the way to the bank.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2082 - 2016-02-14 14:05:09 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
http://massivelyop.com/2016/02/11/eve-online-player-buys-nearly-7000-worth-of-skill-injectors/

Success!

http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank

Here it is folks - Eves onlines 1st ever 100% skill trained character 473,344,000 SP

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2083 - 2016-02-14 14:44:44 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
http://massivelyop.com/2016/02/11/eve-online-player-buys-nearly-7000-worth-of-skill-injectors/

Success!

http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank

Here it is folks - Eves onlines 1st ever 100% skill trained character 473,344,000 SP



On the bright side, that's ~900M skillpoints permanently destroyed.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2084 - 2016-02-14 15:12:06 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
http://massivelyop.com/2016/02/11/eve-online-player-buys-nearly-7000-worth-of-skill-injectors/

Success!

http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank

Here it is folks - Eves onlines 1st ever 100% skill trained character 473,344,000 SP



On the bright side, that's ~900M skillpoints permanently destroyed.

Is that a bright side though?

I'm on the fence when it comes to removing SP from the game other than via EULA breaches (Banned accounts).

At 1.2 trillion isk, I don't think this is likely to start a trend Twisted

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#2085 - 2016-02-14 16:03:01 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
...On the bright side, that's ~900M skillpoints permanently destroyed.
The SP farms are being nurtured, it will take awhile for them to start delivering their fruit.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#2086 - 2016-02-14 22:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Berrice Silf
I think Tuesday the 9th feb will go down as the day the dev's turned the Lady into a tramp.

After watching what Ironbank did was the final nail in this games coffin for me and decided to end this one too, good luck all have fun ShockedTwistedShocked

Edit: In a game that everything has a real world cash value for advancement, what now gives any incentive to achieve anything laid out in the construct.

At first i said they'd moved the goal post's, alas they've not moved but taken away. A game without goals is what exactly ????
Jenshae Chiroptera
#2087 - 2016-02-15 14:37:27 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
...of course someone who played way much less and invested way less time + effort should not get there. It is not about tenure it is about customers relations. People can buy high sp chars if they need them, they can even buy sp now, but they should never ever be provided option to take someone 13 years of loyalty. With this change, CCP send wrong message to the players. ...
I agree.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2088 - 2016-02-15 19:47:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
...of course someone who played way much less and invested way less time + effort should not get there. It is not about tenure it is about customers relations. People can buy high sp chars if they need them, they can even buy sp now, but they should never ever be provided option to take someone 13 years of loyalty. With this change, CCP send wrong message to the players. ...
I agree.
I don't.

If there was loyalty in the sense of what you just quoted, there would be no need for this thread as all the 'loyal' players would not be gutting their 13 year old characters en mas for something as easy to acquire as ISKies.

Every one is blaming the victims here. It's not the people buying SP, it's the people selling it. And the people selling it are by definition, vets.

It always comes back to it being the veterans doing the actual screwing up of things in this game, doesn't it?

Mr Epeen Cool
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2089 - 2016-02-15 19:57:21 UTC
Ironbank should have kept going with more unallocated SP for the sake of future proofing.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#2090 - 2016-02-15 22:16:55 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:
So how can you class eve now the skill gate has been removed.

Previously it did not matter how wealthy you were in game or real life and the bazaar offered certain buyer beware concerns to gaining a character worked on by a previous owner.

We have the standard ( what now seems like f2p ) version that at best you can accumulate 2700 ph and generally work the markets / pvp / pve / mine - In for the long haul True EvE style.

Pay CCP subscription

OR

Pay CCP - Extractors
Pay plex - aurum - Extractors
Pay plex - aurum - skins
Pay plex- Injectors - skill points - accelerated toon
Pay plex - Isk - Ships
Pay plex - Isk - Modules
Pay plex - Isk - ????

and

Pay CCP subscription

Its definitely pay 2 something ....... laugh there bollox off all the way to the bank.


You forgot pay isk for Aurum tokens.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#2091 - 2016-02-15 23:06:05 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
...of course someone who played way much less and invested way less time + effort should not get there. It is not about tenure it is about customers relations. People can buy high sp chars if they need them, they can even buy sp now, but they should never ever be provided option to take someone 13 years of loyalty. With this change, CCP send wrong message to the players. ...
I agree.
I don't.

If there was loyalty in the sense of what you just quoted, there would be no need for this thread as all the 'loyal' players would not be gutting their 13 year old characters en mas for something as easy to acquire as ISKies.

Every one is blaming the victims here. It's not the people buying SP, it's the people selling it. And the people selling it are by definition, vets.

It always comes back to it being the veterans doing the actual screwing up of things in this game, doesn't it?

Mr Epeen Cool

No. As previously stated its human nature to seek out and try to find the easiest way to do something, CCP have handed it to them on a plate. If it wasn't implemented then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

With the pve being flimsy at best in the game its reliant on it's pvp, without players there is no pvp.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2092 - 2016-02-15 23:43:56 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
...of course someone who played way much less and invested way less time + effort should not get there. It is not about tenure it is about customers relations. People can buy high sp chars if they need them, they can even buy sp now, but they should never ever be provided option to take someone 13 years of loyalty. With this change, CCP send wrong message to the players. ...
I agree.
I don't.

If there was loyalty in the sense of what you just quoted, there would be no need for this thread as all the 'loyal' players would not be gutting their 13 year old characters en mas for something as easy to acquire as ISKies.

Every one is blaming the victims here. It's not the people buying SP, it's the people selling it. And the people selling it are by definition, vets.

It always comes back to it being the veterans doing the actual screwing up of things in this game, doesn't it?

Mr Epeen Cool

No. As previously stated its human nature to seek out and try to find the easiest way to do something, CCP have handed it to them on a plate. If it wasn't implemented then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

With the pve being flimsy at best in the game its reliant on it's pvp, without players there is no pvp.
A value isn't a value when it's a mandate. Only when that "loyalty" can be traded can we really see what it's worth. And apparently it's worth ~300mill per optimal week. All the talk of ease and human nature only highlights the minimal worth of SP even for those who have demonstrated their "loyalty" to the game.

But it's still always someone else' fault. When given options we can't and apparently refuse to collectively acknowledge our own individual agency.
Chrysa Narfatu
Joint Shipbuilding Industries Ltd
#2093 - 2016-02-16 02:32:33 UTC
***Took a lot of time editing this one so it may have salt, tears or salty tears out of the picture :)***

Well, for better or worse, Skill Extractors/Injectors have been implemented. It will be interesting to see how the scales of power will look like at the end of this month - in all possible notions.

One of the wow factors that hooked me into the game was the new player first contact experience, which even before Trinity was a marvel to behold, in my eyes at least. This included a wonderful music score, amazing visuals, starting out in a deadspace training complex and actually having Aura talking to you – the very first time I saw a tutorial speaking to the player – not many MMO games could boast that feature at the time, sadly gone now. Of course, I knew what I was roughly getting into: a game that requires actual brainpower, painful trial and error and time investment, as the intro stressed upon its first launch.

Seems that joining EvE back in whenever-I-joined was a bad idea, but no one can glance into the future. I'd saved myself a lot of time getting to the SP total I have for all of my 3 main account Characters had I joined from this point onwards. And no - the Bazaar is only good for a particular type of gamer - not my style of play.

Regardless of whatever goals CCP seems to pursue, I don't mind the time-grinding nor will I lament over its (stated or implied) degeneration. Since I never was thirsty for fame or glory, I will also skip the in-game politics section, thank you very much. One of the many things that kept me going in this game for so long was the notion of Democracy in it - beginning with the introduction of the so much venerated (or hated) CSM and the micro and macro-politics this meant.

CCP made a promise to listen to us players. I believe that the EvE Monument was the peak of it. Having followed this thread as far as I could, considering that I have not much spare time to invest in the game and the out of game-related activities as I used to, I have come to the personal conclusion that we are facing a Deficit in this respect. Of course I will try reviewing the CSM minutes for the past year to see if this implementation was gauged (pardon my expressed ignorance on this subject and correct me if I am wrong), but I get the feeling that this topic was not discussed in session.

Of course, I think that the whole problem simply boils down to the game needing to be competitive: CCP promised frequent new features so they must deliver, trying to stay one step ahead of the storm of free to play (and pay to win) MMOs out there. I think it best to slow down on the expansions, so that everyone gets a go to express their opinion, mechanics are better thought out and discussed etc., instead of blindly rushing to keep deadlines and as a result throw trinkets around to keep the easily bored player engaged for a few more months. I don’t mind waiting for expansions, as long as the changes introduced are actually improving the game because this universe had (in its initial conception) two ever-present keywords: patience and perseverance.

Going forward, I'd make a point of instead of getting the feel from post forums or any other indirect or non-transparent methods of gauging player opinions, direct polling/voting should be implemented, especially for features that can offset the game mechanics. Creating an in-game money and time siphon with real money involved yet again with a direct impact on the player base is a double edged sword (please ponder on this phrase, you’ll see what I mean) and does not feel like a good way forward. Direct polling should really be easy to deploy, and would ensure transparency and player input maximization with fractional costs - after all, the loyal player base is not what it used to be and may be bound to change in the near future.

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read through this (rather) ponderous post.

"The Voice of Reason"

-- Tau Ethereal
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#2094 - 2016-02-16 07:21:51 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
...of course someone who played way much less and invested way less time + effort should not get there. It is not about tenure it is about customers relations. People can buy high sp chars if they need them, they can even buy sp now, but they should never ever be provided option to take someone 13 years of loyalty. With this change, CCP send wrong message to the players. ...
I agree.
I don't.

If there was loyalty in the sense of what you just quoted, there would be no need for this thread as all the 'loyal' players would not be gutting their 13 year old characters en mas for something as easy to acquire as ISKies.

Every one is blaming the victims here. It's not the people buying SP, it's the people selling it. And the people selling it are by definition, vets.

It always comes back to it being the veterans doing the actual screwing up of things in this game, doesn't it?

Mr Epeen Cool

No. As previously stated its human nature to seek out and try to find the easiest way to do something, CCP have handed it to them on a plate. If it wasn't implemented then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

With the pve being flimsy at best in the game its reliant on it's pvp, without players there is no pvp.
A value isn't a value when it's a mandate. Only when that "loyalty" can be traded can we really see what it's worth. And apparently it's worth ~300mill per optimal week. All the talk of ease and human nature only highlights the minimal worth of SP even for those who have demonstrated their "loyalty" to the game.

But it's still always someone else' fault. When given options we can't and apparently refuse to collectively acknowledge our own individual agency.
What ? Where were the expectations that this was the norm, it was released as a blog and then nothing not a word for a few months then they released the second one saying they were going ahead with it. Certainly not on general consensus was it adopted, but forced upon.
Loyalty is not there to be traded - maybe that's why you seem to struggle with this.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2095 - 2016-02-16 08:07:55 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:
What ? Where were the expectations that this was the norm, it was released as a blog and then nothing not a word for a few months then they released the second one saying they were going ahead with it. Certainly not on general consensus was it adopted, but forced upon.
Loyalty is not there to be traded - maybe that's why you seem to struggle with this.
The only thing forced upon anyone is the availability of the mechanic that determined SP wouldn't need to be tied exclusively to a character. The reality of that was and is in our hands though. We're the ones selling the SP, not CCP. All the excuses about human nature don't change that.

If that's what you consider loyalty, SP, then the definition was shallow and second it was entirely worth selling to any who saw fit to do so. As stated, that "loyalty" is free to be traded and your fellow players seem eager to do so. No hands were forced, so no excuses can be made.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#2096 - 2016-02-16 10:00:13 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
What ? Where were the expectations that this was the norm, it was released as a blog and then nothing not a word for a few months then they released the second one saying they were going ahead with it. Certainly not on general consensus was it adopted, but forced upon.
Loyalty is not there to be traded - maybe that's why you seem to struggle with this.
The only thing forced upon anyone is the availability of the mechanic that determined SP wouldn't need to be tied exclusively to a character. The reality of that was and is in our hands though. We're the ones selling the SP, not CCP. All the excuses about human nature don't change that.

If that's what you consider loyalty, SP, then the definition was shallow and second it was entirely worth selling to any who saw fit to do so. As stated, that "loyalty" is free to be traded and your fellow players seem eager to do so. No hands were forced, so no excuses can be made.
Your self righteous bullsh1t is astounding, CCP didn't give us the opportunity to vote on this it was just pushed through ergo it was forced on us after some 13 years of preaching that they would never alter said system. Of course now implemented people are going to fully use and abuse it as we've seen. Loyalty is earned over time - hard to get and very easily lost, and certainly not a tradeable commodity something those tools and you don't seem to grasp, i now see why Don feels like he's banging his head against a brick wall speaking to you.
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2097 - 2016-02-16 17:15:53 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
What ? Where were the expectations that this was the norm, it was released as a blog and then nothing not a word for a few months then they released the second one saying they were going ahead with it. Certainly not on general consensus was it adopted, but forced upon.
Loyalty is not there to be traded - maybe that's why you seem to struggle with this.
The only thing forced upon anyone is the availability of the mechanic that determined SP wouldn't need to be tied exclusively to a character. The reality of that was and is in our hands though. We're the ones selling the SP, not CCP. All the excuses about human nature don't change that.

If that's what you consider loyalty, SP, then the definition was shallow and second it was entirely worth selling to any who saw fit to do so. As stated, that "loyalty" is free to be traded and your fellow players seem eager to do so. No hands were forced, so no excuses can be made.
Your self righteous bullsh1t is astounding, CCP didn't give us the opportunity to vote on this it was just pushed through ergo it was forced on us after some 13 years of preaching that they would never alter said system. Of course now implemented people are going to fully use and abuse it as we've seen. Loyalty is earned over time - hard to get and very easily lost, and certainly not a tradeable commodity something those tools and you don't seem to grasp, i now see why Don feels like he's banging his head against a brick wall speaking to you.


whaaaaaat?????

SP comes from those who have the surplus, accumulated trough time or the bazar. There is a difference between having options and being forced to do something. Even if progressions you think is now tied to buying SP, it starts with the decision of another player to extract in the first place, and that is certainly not forced on anyone.

I guess you could go and experiment, see if you can tackle someone in low-sec and make them extract skill points, let me know how that goes.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2098 - 2016-02-16 19:02:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Berrice Silf wrote:
Your self righteous bullsh1t is astounding, CCP didn't give us the opportunity to vote on this
Actually they did, not in the introduction of the mechanic, but in it's apparent success. We could have easily stifled that by simply NOT EXTRACTING OUR SP. So I guess it's bullshit now to point to an act people are doing voluntarily because it doesn't conform to the latest series of objections?

That's great and all that you think your opinion gets to override what people are actually doing with the feature. That said it's also pretty arrogant to believing you're acting as some kind of spokesperson for those who don't know better or can't make the informed decision on their own about what they're doing.

It can't be because there is a lack of actual compromise of principle or betrayal, it has to be simply seeking ease that people just can't resist, right? Everyone is a victim and you're their advocate but I'm the self righteous one here. Right.

Berrice Silf wrote:
it was just pushed through ergo it was forced on us after some 13 years of preaching that they would never alter said system.
When and where? I haven't seen it but I also can't say I've paid complete attention to every communication presented by CCP, so I'll simple ask when and where was this promise made regarding training and SP?

Berrice Silf wrote:
Of course now implemented people are going to fully use and abuse it as we've seen. Loyalty is earned over time - hard to get and very easily lost, and certainly not a tradeable commodity something those tools and you don't seem to grasp, i now see why Don feels like he's banging his head against a brick wall speaking to you.
Good thing there is no potential for abuse as the uses we've seen from the mild to the extreme are exactly what the system was built for.

Yes, that even includes ironbank.

And it's specifically because the skill system is built the way it is capping how far SP helps with any given ship. There is no abuse.

And no, when you equate loyalty to SP as Don Zola did you aren't talking about actual loyalty, you're talking about bittervet "loyalty": the bleating of entitlement to their SP lead for having been here for a while. Because that's what this is all really about. Can't let the noobs have more SP because it makes the vets feel bad. It "betrays" them to have someone on their level in SP total without being here as long.

And I'm sure you'll want to pitch another fit about me bringing up tenure, but since that's all you do rather than even try to explain why that and SP must be linked for anything other than selfish grandstanding that condemnation lacks any real bite now.
Ed Bever
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2099 - 2016-02-16 19:33:47 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
Your self righteous bullsh1t is astounding, CCP didn't give us the opportunity to vote on this
Actually they did, not in the introduction of the mechanic, but in it's apparent success. We could have easily stifled that by simply NOT EXTRACTING OUR SP. So I guess it's bullshit now to point to an act people are doing voluntarily because it doesn't conform to the latest series of objections?


That is not entirely correct. You forget that this is EVE, and any one person MUST presume that any next person will use any and all means provided to him. It is the nature of the game to use this, even if it destroys the game.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2100 - 2016-02-16 19:41:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Ed Bever wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
Your self righteous bullsh1t is astounding, CCP didn't give us the opportunity to vote on this
Actually they did, not in the introduction of the mechanic, but in it's apparent success. We could have easily stifled that by simply NOT EXTRACTING OUR SP. So I guess it's bullshit now to point to an act people are doing voluntarily because it doesn't conform to the latest series of objections?


That is not entirely correct. You forget that this is EVE, and any one person MUST presume that any next person will use any and all means provided to him. It is the nature of the game to use this, even if it destroys the game.
That view is actually more problematic from the seller's standpoint because there was already a mechanic which did the same thing in providing isk: PLEX.

So there was already an out for that demand without any compromise. Buyers are different, but they are enabled by sellers.

Edit: It's interesting to invoke "This is Eve" as a reason for participation when the objection this stemmed from was based in the notion of how Un-Eve this was and how the entire idea breaks an eve fundamental concept.