EVE General Discussion

The customer is not always right.

What put EVE on the map? Its niche.
What keeps EVE from folding like other generic MMOs? Its niche.

So, when you get a bunch of people that stamp their feet, make a lot of loud noises and threaten to quit when they want to go against the niche, then I say, "Good riddance."

I wish CCP would take these next two months to sit down, polish a few things and really think about how they can play into their strengths.

All true. The interesting part here is ISK/hour, however, because it doesn't always come from only one source. There are only some people who care about that metric anyway, at least beyond "can I fit and fly the ship I want to?" If you look at the people milking missions for all they're worth with alts and carefully planned and executed strategies, they're already making, I would guess, in the neighborhood of an order of magnitude more than the casual mission runner who meticulously clears (and loots, and salvages) every pocket, and who doesn't really know what to do with LP (or who thinks, "free faction ammo for me!"). There are relatively few people doing this high level extraction or the LP markets would crash, so it's a contrast that is mostly possible due to some quirks of the standings system, mission predictability and completion conditions, and the relatively small number of people willing to go to an unusual amount of planning and trouble and put a significant investment on the line (e.g., dual shiny kill-tanking Machariels).

What's far more common, especially for nullsec line members, is AFK PVE. It's comparatively low ISK/hr, but it's steady and reliable, and they can spend most of their time and attention on their main (or with their families!), so it's "free" ISK.

I believe the casual mission runner will be affected least by any enhancement of the PVE AI over time. Sure, there will be short-term disruption, but guides will be updated, fits will be adjusted, and they will continue to earn less than the people who have stretched the system until it screams, but more than the people who AFK it.

I'm not claiming that it's easy, but there are some levers in there that CCP can pull to make group PVE rewarding without turning it into a giant alt festival.

Yes, and it's a point I didn't make.

Why are you asking me? I'm not against CCP improving or tweaking their game.

Stupid bla. You are taking your personal frustration and blindly apply it to what is being said.
You are reacting with something specific to something general. Stupid!

You bitter, old man!

Which would be exactly what I said, that exploration in EVE has nothing to do with exploration in the traditional sense.

And FYI, Industrial is an adjective which means that an Industrial ship doesn't have to "do industry" but merely do something that pertains or relates to industry, like transport industrial goods etc.

And I don't blame you for not reading my posts in their entirety. My posts are impressions from a new player perspective which you obviously don't care much about.

You actually don't seem to care much about anyone's perspective save your own.

One more thing. Those other space games that you've listed all have one thing in common, and that's that they all kind of suck, not counting Elite: Dangerous which is still a work in progress and very promising.

I'm with you if it comes to the lack of activity (by numbers). Though, i'm seeing the source rather in the lack of rules then in their excess.

Let's be honest, suicide ganking was never easier and with the introduction of the new battlecruisers, abusing station lag got even more viable. I think the 'rules' got more and more loosened over the last years. High Sec has become more or less a hunting ground for experienced players and CCP is pretty open about the way they change things as they see the future of eve in null sec.

Personally, i'm not sure about that. I had my fun in tenerifis and cloud ring back in the days, but it simply isn't for everyone. If they succeed with the new structures and sov 5.0+ to make holding 0.0 less a chore and find-the-exploit, it might get better.

In the end, the big problem i currently see is the following: CCP seems incredibly desperate in trying to keep their 0.0 audience in the illusion that eve is really-i-tell-you-bro hardcore and that the people who are playing eve are really special snowflakes. Over that, they make the eve-life of their audience in high sec more miserable on purpose to force people to go to nullsec. This might work on the charts, but not in reality. You'll need your high sec carebears for economics as well as future nullsec population. Instead of making eve more 'hardcore' by making hs ganking even more easy, give us better a better Sov handling and more options for actually making nullsec worth living in.

Maybe to a select portion of the player base this is the case. But not everyone.

For example, I burn the **** out of any PVE content very quickly, on the whole I will say PVE in this game is absolutely terrible...so min maxing it makes sense for the people who wish to avoid it. Then there are those like me who do it as a time filler, and for anything they actually need ISK for swipe the old debit card and buy PLEX.

Frankly I would put min/maxers in the vast minority of players. The majority of people are just playing the game, for whatever reason people actually enjoy mining...or saving the damsel for the millionth time.

The nice thing about EVE is you can't draw a blanket statement on everyone, you have to go by a law of averages...For instance CCP will never make NS more of a draw than HS for people who have absolutely no interest in PVP, they can attempt to force people there (reprocessing junk loot nerf) but people if they continue to play will always always find something else to do that aligns with their gamestyle.

ISK/hr is not the end all be all.

People like me and the early EvE players put EvE on the map. It was the Tank CEO's, M0o, BoB

In fact EvE's trying to cater to its current important customer base (Goons) is what will cause EvE to finally fold.

CCP have put themselves in a very interesting situation. By catering to Goon type players they've locked themselves into a catch 22. New players are not going to want to sign up while Goons and co control the entire map, game, and even hold positions inside CCP, the CSM and probably the Icelandic parliament (it wouldn't surprise me) while changing the game drastically to attract new players is going to cause Goons and co to quit leaving CCP with probably a couple of thousand players online.

Rediculous situation and really the result of tunnel vision, ironically an inability to adapt and poor management.

June plans are to break apart the coalitions. Part of that would be splitting apart the CFC. The trouble is that in the process, it is going to make Null SOV too annoying for anyone to want to defend it. Thus the buildings will be abandoned and only the moons will be defended.
This will create a honey trap for people who dream about making their own kingdom, they will go and think they are taking an empty space only to find they are gleefully crushed or extorted by the huge alliance controlling the moons in that system or nearby.

As to the tantrums, I am talking about people complaining that the mechanics aren't protecting them (Concord is retribution not protection to keep that clear).
Where as, I am saying that we should develop more tools for the players to protect themselves and each other. If they don't want to research, ask and make groups to effectively use the tools then; they need to go and play a game that will spoon food them and give them the hero's journey.

CCP must avoid this trap of trying to cater to players that haven't grasped what EVE is and want to shape it in the wrong direction.