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The Shrinking Sandbox - Eve by numbers

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Author
CCP Falcon
#41 - 2015-03-30 13:52:07 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
CCP Falcon, I would be really interested to hear whether your perspective of the new and improved "Eve by numbers" has changed your "opinion" as quoted above.


Nope Big smile

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-03-30 14:05:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Null sec attracts 'big fleets and big ships' types (the so called F1 monkeys, of which I am a proud member) and this Sov system creates an environment directly counter to what sov null dwellers are there for. Putting FozzieSov in null is like wiping away the current FW system in low sec and replacing it with Dominion Sov.. FW people would have just gone to null if they wanted to play that way.

Most of the pvp in EVE is actually small gang and solo. High sec, low sec and FW low sec, npc null, wormhole space, all of these are small gang territory (99% of the time, if there is a big fight in low sec or npc null, it's Sov null coalitions fighting lol). EVE has one real fleet fight (and capital fight) arena (Sov null) and CCPs brilliant idea here is to impose a small gang Sov system on it....

This is why CCP gets complaints, because sometimes they demonstrate breath-taking short sightedness.

Very on the point. My second thought on the proposals was ... this is FW 2.0. As a small gang / solo player I personally would like to see my playstyle expanded to new areas, but I think a lot of people don't like it, meaning less targets finally. I don't have a good idea yet ... just some random "feelings". Sov should be around siege and shooting big things with many ships (scrap that Entosis thingy)... maybe Moon goo should be randomly redistributed periodically, so regions get exhausted on usage of the same people (similar like the swing of FW today). Actually the FW analogy is not that bad, "just" scale it up to longer periods and bigger fleets.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Gilan Isana
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2015-03-30 19:16:51 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I'd just like to say that I didn't read one word of this thread past the title and I intend to keep it that way.

Nonetheless, I felt I should post on principle. So here I am poking at keys and contributing not in the least to whatever is passing for discourse here.

Mr Epeen Cool


HAHAHAHAHA

best post on the thread!!

+1
Serene Repose
#44 - 2015-03-30 19:20:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
What I want to know is, what side am I on? Without Mr. Epeen taking a discernible THRUST, it's difficult to
navigate these waters.

Point of curiosity: Is it really true to play in null sec all you have to do is pound on F1
(after you've Ctrl+clicked a target, that is?)
Unless of course you become a fleet commander which requires non-stop shouting of indecipherable expletives - true?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#45 - 2015-03-30 20:03:36 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
What I want to know is, what side am I on? Without Mr. Epeen taking a discernible THRUST, it's difficult to
navigate these waters.

Point of curiosity: Is it really true to play in null sec all you have to do is pound on F1
(after you've Ctrl+clicked a target, that is?)
Unless of course you become a fleet commander which requires non-stop shouting of indecipherable expletives - true?
..... pretty much.
There are other factors, such as:

- remembering to anchor up.
- broadcasting for repairs when they target you.
- over heating the right modules at the right times.
- remembering to take drugs.
- fitting your ship according to the latest doctrine
- spreading ewar if it is used.
- aligning, warping and jumping correctly and not being a lemming.

Then there are always other things to do:

- come up with the doctrines
- supply the ships and modules
- be a logi achor
- be a logi and decide who lives or dies (you can "accidentally"repair enemies sometimes)Twisted
- fly ewar ships and learn to survive in fleets while essentially 3rd partying on the fight and being extremely useful.
- tackling (hero tackling is an activity branch of this)

You can also subdivide roles.

- fleet commander doesn't have to be booster and can just warp the fleet around
- ewar squad leaders can warp in and out
- target callers can be seperate.

So forth and so on the fleet commander can sit in a squad and pretend to be Picard essentially.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#46 - 2015-03-30 20:27:04 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
Interesting in the history of CCP and Eve, there appears to be one developer that while ambitious, seems to have carte blanche or "whatever I feel is correct" free rein to do whatever they like, instead of working as a group it seems.

CCP Soundwave
CCP Greyscale
CCP Fozzie

The next one will be...?

I could be wrong, but just a perspective of mine.



no you're correct,

that's all because their head boss came up with a brilliant plan to allow devs to work on whatever they feel , as if this gave them a chance to rejuvenate their minds and not be so stressed out and under the gun.. she is the one allowing this free reign.. the owner is the one hiring players to ruin his business.. THAT is a problem.

eve online is not going to "hold the line" once the competition comes.. eve valkerie?? what a joke hahah VR is a gimmick just like 3D gimmick.. it never stays around just some companies pulling a money grab.. it will not become standard, it will not be a success but ccp still pulling out those cut scenes trailers hoping it will dangle the carrots for them.

then super cap pilots went totally batchit crazy and threatened to quit this extremely biased game.. ccp seagull makes a "promise" to make capital ships important this year..

now we'll wait for her promise to make null sec more thrilling to get new players there to experience it...

cause the damage fozzie-sov is about to do is worse than soundwave, greyscale (ccp greyscale **** things up really really bad)

he talks a good game and that's why ccp hired him.. just like why they gave that mintchip chick a job. fawking players of the god damn game getting jobs cause they allow it. not cause they have experience in game design.. all cause they played the ****ing game! in the states dev's or people trying to call themselves a dev with that limited experience would be laughed out of the studio. like that idiot who tried to apply for head coaching position in the NFL... all cause his Madden Game Stats said he was brilliant!!!!

hey CCP I save squirrels and made a life-sized titan out of bacon.. give me a damn job you punks! then let me take on pvp in this game.. I will show you the future!!!



I would make sure to invite guest speakers to fan fest and make it so exciting they would not fall asleep during their own presentation on stage!... ( yes! ccp im not ever going to let that one go!!)



Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#47 - 2015-03-30 20:29:36 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Iteration on the sov changes is underway.

The first outline won't be what the final implementation looks like.

If the 4 hours comes about then yeah it will not be what most players want, but we still don't know the final sov updates.

In relation to the NPE comments, I can't disagree with you. Solo play for a new player sucks. There's been a few related threads in recent times.
Only the 4 hour window?

The whole Fozzie Logic plan is ludicrous.
For a few months people will do a lot of fighting, try hold onto the SOV
Then they will fail cascade and give it up, moving into NPC Null and Low Sec.


If getting lots of fights makes current sov owners fail-cascade, then so much the better.

My experience is that long intervals of getting no fights that mean anything is what actually leaves alliances vulnerable to fail-cascading.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#48 - 2015-03-30 21:10:05 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I'm not nearly as doom and gloom about, well, anything going on with the game right now as some of you are. That's not to say I don't have serious concerns. But at the end of the day, CCP isn't doing anything on the scale of "monoclegate/incarna" bad.

What is happening I think (as an outside observer that not only doesn't have the same information CCP has, but also as a guy who doesn't depend on EVE for food, shelter and clothing like a CCP employee does) is that sometimes people on the inside forget how to see things like people on the outside do. Developers may have been (and may still be) players, but actually working for a company changes all perspectives.



Anyways, yes, the "FozzieSov" idea is terrible. Not because it isn't well designed. Not because Fozzie and Co. are stupid (they are very smart). No, it's bad because it demonstrates that those guys don't understand the people they are developing for. They seem to think "pvp is pvp" without understanding that individual people and groups that like pvp like different forms of it.

The pvp that happens in low sec and FW is fundamentally different from what happens in null (and what happens in null is different from wormholes, what happens in wormholes is different from high sec, etc). "FozzieSov" is more like FW than anything else, and FW is small gang/solo style pvp. While plenty of null players like that kind of stuff, if they wanted that full time they'd have just gone to or stayed in FW.

Null sec attracts 'big fleets and big ships' types (the so called F1 monkeys, of which I am a proud member) and this Sov system creates an environment directly counter to what sov null dwellers are there for. Putting FozzieSov in null is like wiping away the current FW system in low sec and replacing it with Dominion Sov.. FW people would have just gone to null if they wanted to play that way.

Most of the pvp in EVE is actually small gang and solo. High sec, low sec and FW low sec, npc null, wormhole space, all of these are small gang territory (99% of the time, if there is a big fight in low sec or npc null, it's Sov null coalitions fighting lol). EVE has one real fleet fight (and capital fight) arena (Sov null) and CCPs brilliant idea here is to impose a small gang Sov system on it....

This is why CCP gets complaints, because sometimes they demonstrate breath-taking short sightedness.



This is pretty well reasoned out, so I wanted to give it a little more life before it gets buried. Is it fairly correct?
Mashie Saldana
Jamgu Initiatives
#49 - 2015-03-30 21:23:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mashie Saldana
In my opinion CCP has no clue what to do with this game anymore. You got bittervets on one side complaining just about everything (OMG CCP U GONNA NERF MY 10 TITANS AND 20 SUPERS IM UNSUBBIN WITH 50 ACCOUNTS) and you got newbros on the other side who want to get stuff fast and easy.

You can't please everyone. I would personally remove all supers from the game, maybe caps too but not sure about that.

But that's just me.

Also CCP should throw newbros a bone. I'm not saying to make the game easier, just create some FUN tutorials.
Newbros want to learn how to make isk in eve? Give them a bloody heron with some basic fittings and explain them step by step how to do exploration.

Newbros wanna do pvp? Give them a full fitted, T1 racial frigate (merlin, rifter, punisher, incursus), and explain them in some meaningful tutorial how to actually fit a ship, what is armor tanking, what is shield tanking and so on.

It's not 2005 anymore, Eve needs to adapt.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#50 - 2015-03-30 22:03:15 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
CCP Falcon, I would be really interested to hear whether your perspective of the new and improved "Eve by numbers" has changed your "opinion" as quoted above.


Nope Big smile


Thank you for paying attention.
Out of curiosity; On the subject of SOV;
Do you see the reductions in play styles as something of a problem?
Stating goals for change that are not going to be achieved?
Turning SOV into a series of mass player grinding, mini games?
Holding Sov becoming a part time job?
CCP imposing limits on when and how an individual plays?

From a players perspective, all these things are reasons NOT to play eve.
I did FW, the mini game concept, although it paid well and served a purpose, overall turned me off it.
Now Sov is being turned into a bigger version of FW but without the incentive of income (or anything else) as a draw card.

These changes not only remove player choice for sov warfare (if you can still call it that), they impose strict conditions of entry.

I know you can't, or choose not to come out and publicly speak against current development trends BUT for the sake of Eve, I hope your doing something. If indeed you do believe this is the right direction for Sov Nul and Eve as a whole, I was completely wrong about you.

I won't quit, I'll keep 1 account active, using up my isk reserves, just to watch the SOV changes fail.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#51 - 2015-03-30 22:06:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
You're hilarious.

The beginning of the initial post of this thread ...
... only the first few lines ...
... already showed that it's not worth it reading.

Like, for example, how you take nullsec and believe that it's literally all of EVE.

Because that's what you write.


Dude, you're just angry and feel somehow self important enough
that you posted here, because somehow it seemed like it would matter.

It doesn't.

You are delusional on so many levels that it's not even amusing anymore.

But the best part is the character you post with.

Or the fact that you seem to somehow believe you understand everything so well ...
... that you can correctly predict what will happen.

Thanks for the insight into your mind, though.
Sadly there was nothing new to learn.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#52 - 2015-03-30 22:39:05 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
You're hilarious.

The beginning of the initial post of this thread ...
... only the first few lines ...
... already showed that it's not worth it reading.

Like, for example, how you take nullsec and believe that it's literally all of EVE.

Because that's what you write.


Dude, you're just angry and feel somehow self important enough
that you posted here, because somehow it seemed like it would matter.

It doesn't.

You are delusional on so many levels that it's not even amusing anymore.

But the best part is the character you post with.

Or the fact that you seem to somehow believe you understand everything so well ...
... that you can correctly predict what will happen.

Thanks for the insight into your mind, though.
Sadly there was nothing new to learn.

+1 for troll value. I was going to award it to Mr Epeen but you outdid him.

You have an amazing ability to misread or is it misinterpret.

I didn't say Nulsec is all of Eve, I said Eve is no longer the same and nulsec is.....
I'm not angry, I started unsubbing when the range nerfs fatigue and then restrictions on multiboxing came into play. Also the reason i am posting with this toon. I don't plan on resubbing a 7 year old toon with thousands of kills and easy to see activity just to post MY opinion.

If I'm wrong, all the better but I don't believe I'm far from correct. Having played this game daily for 7 and a half years (I live alone and have limited movement capabilities so Eve has been my 2nd home; those I interact with are like family), I don't know everything but have a pretty good all round view.

I am aware my voice and opinions mean little in the overall scheme of things but I am allowed to voice them.
At least I have an opinion, all you did was tell me mine is wrong.

My ability to amuse was not something I considered when writing.
As for the insight into my thoughts, your welcome.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2015-03-30 23:03:44 UTC
Is it June yet? I really want it to be June.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#54 - 2015-03-30 23:50:24 UTC
why are you feeding Why for BoB sake

anyway CCP need to open da damn door !!

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
Already Replaced.
#55 - 2015-03-30 23:54:38 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
CCP Falcon, I would be really interested to hear whether your perspective of the new and improved "Eve by numbers" has changed your "opinion" as quoted above.


Nope Big smile


Thank you for paying attention.
Out of curiosity; On the subject of SOV;
Do you see the reductions in play styles as something of a problem?
Stating goals for change that are not going to be achieved?
Turning SOV into a series of mass player grinding, mini games?
Holding Sov becoming a part time job?
CCP imposing limits on when and how an individual plays?

From a players perspective, all these things are reasons NOT to play eve.
I did FW, the mini game concept, although it paid well and served a purpose, overall turned me off it.
Now Sov is being turned into a bigger version of FW but without the incentive of income (or anything else) as a draw card.

These changes not only remove player choice for sov warfare (if you can still call it that), they impose strict conditions of entry.

I know you can't, or choose not to come out and publicly speak against current development trends BUT for the sake of Eve, I hope your doing something. If indeed you do believe this is the right direction for Sov Nul and Eve as a whole, I was completely wrong about you.

I won't quit, I'll keep 1 account active, using up my isk reserves, just to watch the SOV changes fail.



just unsub and go, we don't care as much as you don't.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#56 - 2015-03-31 00:01:45 UTC



just unsub and go, we don't care as much as you don't.
[/quote]


if another player unsubs then we'll never know the true number of active players in the eve online.

oh wait.. we still don't know cause ccp refuses to show the "real" number

no alts mess,

real numbers..


they wont show you cause it looks THAT bad, and with these changes its going to be even worse..

just wait till june when folks get REALLY ANGRY..

Jenshae Chiroptera
#57 - 2015-03-31 00:05:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Iteration on the sov changes is underway.

The first outline won't be what the final implementation looks like.

If the 4 hours comes about then yeah it will not be what most players want, but we still don't know the final sov updates.

In relation to the NPE comments, I can't disagree with you. Solo play for a new player sucks. There's been a few related threads in recent times.
Only the 4 hour window?

The whole Fozzie Logic plan is ludicrous.
For a few months people will do a lot of fighting, try hold onto the SOV
Then they will fail cascade and give it up, moving into NPC Null and Low Sec.


If getting lots of fights makes current sov owners fail-cascade, then so much the better.

My experience is that long intervals of getting no fights that mean anything is what actually leaves alliances vulnerable to fail-cascading.
Low Sec 2.0

Different strokes and folks.
Low Sec is already a tiny niche.
They aren't going to suddenly fill Null Sec.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#58 - 2015-03-31 00:06:16 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:

they wont show you cause it looks THAT bad


Is that why they so happily shed all those ISBotter subs?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
#59 - 2015-03-31 00:43:25 UTC
NPE should include a mandatory 'tour of duty' in Faction Warfare. Welcome to combat 1.1 (1.0 is shooting at red crosses).
Learn to fight, and learn to die. Many times, preferably.

In fact, any NPC corp character should automatically be in Faction Warfare. Don't like the heat? Then find solace in the rookie systems. Otherwise man up or join a corp. Or you can stay NPC and be a persistent target for your faction's enemies. No more 'free pass' for NPC neutrals (you are all spais anywayBlink)

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2015-03-31 00:51:50 UTC
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
NPE should include a mandatory 'tour of duty' in Faction Warfare. Welcome to combat 1.1 (1.0 is shooting at red crosses).
Learn to fight, and learn to die. Many times, preferably.

In fact, any NPC corp character should automatically be in Faction Warfare. Don't like the heat? Then find solace in the rookie systems. Otherwise man up or join a corp. Or you can stay NPC and be a persistent target for your faction's enemies. No more 'free pass' for NPC neutrals (you are all spais anywayBlink)
It's funny when people post this as if it would actually play out like that. The only thing that would do is create a flood of 1 man corps with only characters who never undock remaining in NPC corps. That and a rash of wardec corp cycling like you've never seen should people actually try dec'ing individuals. Or further proliferation of alts. Or both.