EVE General Discussion

Oh, you're back on a new character.

You know what a carebear is in relation to EVE. Your strawman game is weak.

Sure.

I'll do it.

Maybe the guys in Rookie chat are up for some null-sec conquering...that was sarcasm btw.

Oh, it's you again.

Hello.

Well, I can't speak for the "High Sec" community in general, but I just started playing a week and a half ago with one character in each of the four races just to cover all the bases. Uh, lucky rhyme there.

Anyhow, I'm not a team player and I find team play in MMO's generally kind of tedious. Always hated Clan Wars in WoT, and always totally loved randoms in which I hold unicum status. So go figure.

As for EVE, well, I do mine occasionally, even though it's boring as hell, in order to get the materials for manufacturing. Manufacturing is slightly less boring than mining and slightly more profitable.

And it helps with the whole ships outfitting thing. I LOVE outfitting ships, even though it's mostly ****** T1 frigates outfitted for PvE or exploration into null sec.

And while on the subject of Exploration, they should really change the name of that to "Playing Hide and Seek against skilled up psychopaths that have way bigger guns than you"... Seriously, first time I peeked into null sec through a wormhole I found myself stared down by a ship that looked like something that had crawled out of a Stephen King novel.

Some spiked monster called Phantasmic or something. Jesus, that thing scared me, and then killed my ship, and my pod, and made me wet the bed for the next few nights.

Exploration in null sec is fun. Although it's technically not exploration at all. To boldly go where no man has gone before... Nope. there are people there already and they want you dead for some reason.

Now, some of you are going to say: "Well that's hardcore, that's how we roll." I get it, trust me. I also had to go through all of Wing Commander: Prophecy without getting killed once or else I wouldn't have been able to live with myself all these years...

My point is, EVE's universe may seem hardcore but it's actually very confining, and not just for newer players or those "carebears" that you speak off.

But I digress.

One thing that I have noticed is that EVE's playerbase seems to be rather more intelligent that the playerbases of most MMOs, which is certainly a good thing because it means that most of you will understand what I'm talking about.

A new player starts playing EVE all wide eyed, goes through the PvE missions (which totally suck btw, utterly repetitive and lame), spends hours outfitting his ships which then gets totally annihilated the moment he steps through the wrong gate.

Gate campers. Jesus. They make WoT campers look proactive.

Faction Wars should actually be renamed to Gate wars. And FW is like Game of Thrones, you never know who's going to die, or when.

So what you get is a constricted universe in which everything wants to kill you the moment you leave high sec, it is only logical that there are some people who never leave high sec.

And even though I go low and null sec on a regular basis now, I can certainly understand why some people don't.

Also, that comment about skill level not being a factor is utterly ridiculous.

I have never seen a single MMO game in which leveling up is such a huge factor. In WoT, for example, up your crew to max will only get you performance boosts in the 3-5% range, whereas in EVE you can virtually double your ship's performance by skilling up.

The level up ceiling is a bit too high, I would say.

So, I'm going to stick with "exploration", and some mining/manufacturing/salvaging for now...and only a modicum of that annoying PvE here and there.

It's just too bad that out of all that races I chose Amarr, because my Amarr character came out looking a bit creepy.

pls fix quotes... :/

Right. You should double check the definition of exploration then. Trying to find an "anomaly site" (which hundreds of players had already visited) by way of a clunky probe interface and then trying to open a relic/data site through a "connect the dots to the X thingy" mini-game is most definitely not exploration.

It's more like a treasure hunt in which you are being hunted as well. It's interesting, but it's not exploration.

That is a fact. Not my opinion.

Everything else in my post, however, are just opinions from my limited experience which I've NEVER tried to portray as facts despite your efforts to make it seem as such.

I've noticed early on that you seem to be highly confrontational towards any opinion that isn't in the "absolutely everything in EVE is awesome" train of thought...

But let's come back to that later...

What have I done so far in EVE? A little bit of everything I would say, and while I have not yet dove into the game's full depth (or even found it yet), I do feel I have the right to express my opinions here (initial as they may be).

If you have a problem with that...well...then your problem is not really my problem, is it?

As for your SP in EVE doesn't matter argument, I have to say that I find it null and void.

And this has nothing to do with my experience, or lack of it, in EVE, but has everything to do with the way you expressed your faulty analogy as follows:

There is that fundamental misunderstanding of what EVE is yet again. Every real (and experienced) EVE player knows that SP only lets you access tings and in some cases do small things better. But the stupid player with 100 mil SP (most of it in mining/industry) WILL die to the smart player with 10 mil pvp focused SP and knowledge of how to actually fly his ship every time. EVE isn't like other games where "level" determines competitiveness. Hell EVE doesn't HAVE levels in the sense other games do.

The effects of leveling in video games are not measured by what a good player can do against a leveled up bad player. In fact, that's a whole other bag of worms known as the power to skill ratio...

The way effects of leveling are measured is by observing how the performance values increase when players level up regardless of their individual skill.

Your analogy of "bad player with 100 mil SP loses to a good player with 10 mil SP" falls short because a better and more interesting observation would be seeing what happens when two players of equal skill but different amounts of SP meet.

I'm sorry if this bothers you but the performance modifiers are simply off the scale in EVE. No other MMO that I'm currently playing offers such rapid increases in attributes of ships/weapons/modules by leveling up.

And then there's this sentence:

A bad nob assumes he knows up from down after a week of playing one of the deepest games in the history of games...


It made me chuckle a bit.

If someone would walk up to me and say something like "Fallout 2 sucks ballz dude...", I'd probably get pretty upset because it's one of my most favorite games of all time.

So I get the hostility...I don't appreciate it, but I get it.

FYI, in that 'ridiculous' thread that I had previously opened, most of the posters were positive and friendly (since my post was mostly positive). I got more then 10 likes in that thread actually, till you and a few other hardcore fanboys showed up to defend against the few negative comments I had about the game.

I suggest you either move on, or grow up. EVE is not perfect. I think that's obvious to experienced and inexperienced alike.

And also, as of right now, your deepest game of all time has 28k people online, and 90% of those are apparently "carebears" as per opinion of some of the people in this very thread.

In any case, 28k players online is a phenomenon that actually has a name in other MMO's...It's called Wednesday morning.

And that 's something to think about as well.

P.S. I do have to say that this thread is somewhat confusing. Where are all these numbers from the title?

I have no clue what the poet wanted to say here.

+1
(This is why dumbing EVE down and going head to head with the big titles would lose the current player base and gather very little new base) I live in Null Sec and I have been trying to convince some others here with me, who are risk adverse to use a spare character slot and put, literally 1-2 weeks of training into an alt, so that they can support the main PVPers with extra DPS, tackle and ECM in empty pods and very cheap ships.

That is how quickly someone can be important to PVP.
(This is in the context of helping a group so it does by your admission exclude you).

People like me? You mean people who spend their time being fake 'newbros'? Well I can tell you from the amount of Cormorants I have lost today that I would love it if I actually were more seasoned, and yes Cormorants, I'm realizing those things are terrible but I don't like frigates... Maybe I should have rolled Gallente...




Sincerely, I doubt it.

I doubt anyone would pick up this game if they were not remotely interested in the 'hard' PvP. Even to the most casual of MMO players EVE is well-known for being THAT game where you can kill and get killed.

Those players you are talking about are probably not carebears, but they lack the ability to cross the gap between high and non-high sec and thus they prefer the surest (and probably slowest) way to power in the game.

Trying to improve the PvE would be the biggest waste of time for this game in my case, I strongly feel that more ways to get players in corps that can support them and more ways for them to access mass-PvP or fair small-PvP would be better.
And to tell the truth I can understand them, after the last two days of outfitting and losing ships I think I'm gonna spend some time in high-sec exploring, and that not because I don't like losing ships but because I need to cut the losses else I won't even be able to afford losing ships lol.

I think you vastly underestimate the ability of people to see the potential of the PvP in this game, you are deluded if you really think the type of players that would go back to their night elf hunter in WoW would happen to try and pick up EVE, those are two very different types of players that are too different to ever have the same motivations.

That's too specific, isn't it more of having 100k subs?

If a bunch log in and generate headline content with sov lasers then by all means

Well, I wasn't trying to be a know-at-all, as some people have suggested, but I was rather merely offering the perspective of a new player since it has been pointed out in this thread that this game has problems attracting and keeping new players.

You can call EVE deep and super complex if you like, but I, as new player, have yet to find something with deeper meaning here. So far I've noticed that every single game option in EVE whether it be exploration, PvE, or PvP, basically boils down to money hoarding. And that's not very complex or deep at all.

As for the claim that player interaction is what makes EVE deep and complex, well, I guess that could be true. But then again, human interaction is always complex and unpredictable, not just in games but in real life as well. So by that logic, Sims online could be labeled as deep and complex as well, and so could my daily interactions with the cute girl in the baker shop that sells me hot rolls every morning...

A long time ago I was a Beta Tester for a game called World of Warplanes, and during this Beta test I watched on in disbelief as the developers took a great concept of a "an arcade flight game for everyone" and turn it into something foul. Later, when the game was released and the player numbers stagnated at around 5-10k people online at any given time, the developers tried to defend their poor effort by claiming that flight games are overly complex to be attractive to everyone.

We all laughed at them at that point since there was another game on the market at that time called War Thunder which had WAY more players (from 70-100k) even though it was deeper, tougher to master, and more complex by spades.

So to say that EVE's lack of players is due to the game being "niche", I would have to disagree. I know a lot of people (read nerds) that would love nothing more than to play a deep and complex persistent universe Sci-Fi game.

Just look at how many people threw their money at Star Citizen at the mere promise of such a game.

I think with a few minor changes and expansions EVE can have a 100k+ players easy in Europe alone, and even more in Asia if they ever decide to put up a server cluster there.

For starters, an easier transition from mining/PvE-ing to fleets and PvP-ing for newer players would be nice.

And, as for solo tards like me, a more open universe would be nice. I would make gate travel an option instead of an inescapable mechanic, and thus give people the option to warp to other systems (albeit at a much slower pace).

Again, I don't know if this is possible in the current game environment, but I just think that those gates make the game a bit two-dimensional.

What I didn't make clear in the post you quoted was that I was describing players like myself. I came from WoW to EVE, and still play WoW occasionally. I PvP'd quite a bit in that game, because stealthing around battlegrounds with my rogue was a lot of fun. I have zero interest in PvP in EVE because frankly it's not very good. I play EVE because I like sci-fi and it's currently the best internet spaceships game available, and my educated guess is that many others play EVE with the same mindset and for the same reasons.

CCP doesn't need to make radical changes to the PvE because that's not what the game is about and that's cool. I like New Eden as it is. But if Star Citizen lives up to the hype (doubtful) I - and I suspect quite a few others - will be gone before you can say "can I haz your stuff?"