These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#2641 - 2014-10-02 06:53:04 UTC
This type of a change would be very detrimental to low sec FW Corps.


We regularly have to evac stations or move to new forward bases using carriers. (only usually a few jumps)

The introduction of these mechanics will destroy many aspects of FW which has nothing to do with the null sec issue you are trying to fix.



If you want to fix null sec then great - make the timers only apply for jumps in null sec.

Not all capital pilots use capitals in the way the null bloc do.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Selexid
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2642 - 2014-10-02 06:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Selexid
So many NC and PL complaining about this: your leaders signed the null deal. Deal with it.

Teleportation for whole apex fleet in few minutes around the map is OP.

I dont get all the "I WILL UNSUB MY CAP RAGE". If you have that many caps just take the gates. Oh yes that won't allow you to drop a bad 5 regions away....

Hint: Plenty of subcaps still exist in the game.
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#2643 - 2014-10-02 06:53:24 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:

So a even bigger blue doughnut that we have now.. great

Wasnt that the purpose of the change?
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#2644 - 2014-10-02 06:53:48 UTC
Inslander Wessette wrote:
CCP Greyscale . Pls dont nerf JF jump range . Affecting logistics in the game will do u no good .



They shouldn't nerf the JF yet. CCP should wait till they add things to nullsec to augment indigenous self sustainability. Then hit the JF with the nerfbat.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2645 - 2014-10-02 06:55:04 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

How do you supply a small alliance on the outer edge of null with these changes to JF?

You blue whatever block that holds the slice of null going to empire.

And click your ruby slippers together in the hope of wishing away the 30 mids required to jump it to Cobalt Edge, or failing that, to take you far away from EVE, perhaps back to Kansas.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#2646 - 2014-10-02 06:55:49 UTC
Professor Headmash wrote:
looking at the amount of goons who are going to desub off the back of this, seems there won't be many of them left soon.....VFK by Christmas anyone? Big smile

Seriously though, while I can understand people's frustrations, at the same time I can't see why the majority can't see this as a good change. This is going to promote LOCAL area content for everyone. No more flying around the map fighting nameless alliances because a mate of a mate of the half brother of the FC asked for help. Placement of caps will now be key to home defence and invasion plans, people will actually have to start this thinking medium/long term instead of "it'll be fine, support fleet can be here in 10 mins'.

Also this should help with that thing I always hear null bears moaning about, TIDI....if half the map can't get there in 10 mins, you may have to start doing more than pressing f1 and watching your guns cycle once every 10 minutes. You could actually start like, playing the game like the rest of us Big smile

So in conclusion, while logistics will be slightly affected ( start making it locally instead of relaying on jita!) the fact that the carrier blob is going to be limited to an alliances local area ( unless preplanned to be moved) is nothing but a good thing. I'm sure this will promote lots of smaller wars and hopefully start to get sov shaken up a bit.

Valid point. But just take a closer look. Blink
Deych
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2647 - 2014-10-02 06:56:07 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Deych wrote:


And if there other attackers? You can't be at any place in eve in 2 hours like now. And thats awesome!


Subcaps can.


Its amazing how many people have forgotten your quite large and now after these changes invincible Baltec Fleets.

Also being able to move ridiculously fast and be immune tp bubble with interceptors from one dread and carrier cache to the next.


Just do that every day. To the multiple attack points. Your ally members will be happy. And enemy caps will be there - they do not need to jump across the universe.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2648 - 2014-10-02 06:56:18 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Inslander Wessette wrote:
CCP Greyscale . Pls dont nerf JF jump range . Affecting logistics in the game will do u no good .



They shouldn't nerf the JF yet. CCP should wait till they add things to nullsec to augment indigenous self sustainability. Then hit the JF with the nerfbat.

THIS! We need one year of indigenous sustainability for the economy to form and stabilize.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2649 - 2014-10-02 06:56:55 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

So a even bigger blue doughnut that we have now.. great

Wasnt that the purpose of the change?


I thought it was put in so the grr goon mob can celebrate for a while then kick up a stink when they realise we adapted to the change before it even hit tranq.
KanashiiKami
#2650 - 2014-10-02 06:57:13 UTC
Kasarch wrote:
This "improvement" is a head shot for small roaming alliances, that must change their regroup points to find any kind of pvp. That alliances have lot of ships that must be transported to new regroup point and no such of many carriers to take this ships for one time.
Even now i need to make 3+ carrier jumps to reach old regroup point and take ships from it...

CCP what sort of drugs you are using? These changes not fixing null-sec stagnation, it just killing some aspects of game, but not killing null-sec stagnation.


i think null sec stagnation, this could be listed out as a 100 pointer. im sure 1 of the points is power projection, which this mechanics is dipping into. i also AGREE, it will not fix it.

in a very old post, i said the fix is in the way fleets/alliances is being organized.

im sure the 2 big swarms will find a way around this, ultimately i agree with the above that this will ultimately KILL all curious alliances trying out null because simply put, without a fleet mechanics fix, the sheer numbers will still overwhelm.

this mechanics will start to KILL some supply chain of the industry making caps for the 2 big swarm, it will definately de-stabilize INDY (yet again *sigh*). many closed group indy players WILL be affected MORE than combat groups. because they are going to add gate travel to cap ships, which is in essence opening up ALL of eve actually to swarming activities (at zero jump fuel costs) ... i think if anything breaks eve in this "chapter" of changes, it will be this gate unlock for caps (or there will be a travel limit for caps?) ...

the key when you look at this jump fatique mechanics, is limitation of range of travel for combat cap ships, then i suggest may as well just impose a range limit directly on the ship itself, instead of going thru all these additional mechanics. just to make it a test play ... i really dont mind if a testplay is imposed for 3 months on range limit ... then pilots come back to feedback here. it will be useless to test this kind of mechanics in testserver, it affects almost EVERYTHING in eve

WUT ???
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#2651 - 2014-10-02 06:57:16 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


I'm not quite au fait with current sov mechanics, but i'm sure most timers aren't less than 24hrs, correct?


Something like that.... But, take, for example NA. If you have 3 renters do this in Insmother, 2 in Detroid, 5 in Paragon Soul... you get the picture Blink
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#2652 - 2014-10-02 06:57:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

How do you supply a small alliance on the outer edge of null with these changes to JF?

You blue whatever block that holds the slice of null going to empire.


Forgive me but, isn't the whole point of these changes to reduce the blue blob?


So I don't have any inside knowledge or details about what CCP will do. However I was right that this change was coming and called it before anyone. So changes to nullsec are coming including changes that will greatly enhance groups to reasonably collect and use local resources to provide the lionshare of what they need to operate. Bank on it. However with that said , I would have left the JF as is until they make those changes. But who knows we have 2 releases before the new year. Perhaps those changes are slated for December release.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Josef Djugashvilis
#2653 - 2014-10-02 06:59:21 UTC
Will these proposed changed kill Jita as the main trading hub?

It would help if CCP were to show all of the longer term proposed changes to null so that folk may be able to see the 'instant travel nerf' as part of the larger picture - narrative.

From what I can see, it will mean that Eve will consist many local fiefdoms rather than anyone 'owning' vast tracts of space.

Perhaps if those who are totally opposed to these changes suggested by CCP were to get together and suggest a comprehensive set of counter proposals to CCP they might well consider them.

This is not a signature.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2654 - 2014-10-02 06:59:38 UTC
Deych wrote:


Just do that every day. To the multiple attack points. Your ally members will be happy. And enemy caps will be there - they do not need to jump across the universe.


We have for years. You honestly think we of all people cannot keep ourselves entertained while we travel given our record for spending 10+ hours torching towers in bombers and hellcamping stations for week at a time?
Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
#2655 - 2014-10-02 06:59:44 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Ok so here is my post again summarizing everything.

But first let me say, everyone that sells their mains and cancels their accounts before this lands is an idiot and will regret doing that, because these changes ARE NOT FINAL CCP always reserves the right to change things before deployment.

That being said im going to list off the list of compromises and counter proposal to CCP


1. Jump range issue.

5 ly cap is bad. We can all agree on that.

Idea Solution #1 - scaled jump range for each type of ship I will list max ranges. which should be fair. And to keep it simple i used whole numbers.

Carriers, JF, Rorquals - 12 LY

Dreads - 10 LY

Super Carriers - 7 ly

Titans - 5 ly

IdeaSolution #2

A new item in either a mid slot, low slot or rig slot; Maximum 1 fitted at a time that provides a bonus to jump range. Bonus will be based on the ship you are flying and will be % based T2 versions of this module will be a 50% increase of the T1 version.


2. Jump Fatigue

Cooldown timers are good, but the current math is a bit extreme.

Idea Solution #1 - scaled fatigue based on the ship you are flying. I will use the same formula as a base for the adjustments.

Titan - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.1) - standard ccp formula
Super Carrier - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.15)
Dread - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.2)
Carrier - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.25)
JF, Rorqual, Black ops - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.35)

This favors logistics ships over combat ships, because lets face it logistics is a pain in the arse at times.

Idea Solution # 2 - New implants and boosters that reduce the amount of fatigue you get from the distance traveled.

Names for implants might include, Alarm Clock, Yawn, Dream
Booster names might include, NoDoze, Surge, Jolt, Coffee, Tweek, or SUPER CAFFINATED QUAFE!

However there needs to be a downside to boosters, I think an appropriate downside is significant increase in isotope and cap usage.

Idea Soultion # 3 - Make the fatigue a flat rate base on the type of jump.

Type may include
Local - within constellation
Constellational - within the region but outside the constellation
Regtional - outside your region.

Idea Solution # 4 - Make an absolute cap on how much fatigue you can get, cause as it stands you can get several years of fatigue within a week.

3. Cap ships using gates

This goes against EvE canon set forth in the chronicles. Stop that!

EDIT : - make a module that allows them to use a gate, and maybe put a fuel cost per jump


4. Pod jumping

Get your ship into low sec with a nice clone vat on it have all your new members do that. Fly out to null space and then have them self destruct. And set up regular jump schedules.


------------

To my fellow EvE players, these are some fairly balanced solutions. If you like them PLEASE quote which ones you like and say I like this for balance or something along those lines.

Whining, saying you quit blahh blahh blahh will not get CCP to listen. If you want them to listen you must always present your case like a lawyer and convince them why their idea is bad. I have presented my case, and I have offered several solutions which go along with CCP's ideas but are not as harsh as cutting off everyone's limbs.


SO AGAIN,

If you like any of these ideas, quote them, post them and offer feed by of why this or this isnt a good solution.


Thank you for your time today and CCP I do hope you will consider these solutions as a more reasonable balance to nerfing power projection and capital projections.

Regards
Obsidian Hawk
Capital pilot since 2008





Love it, a lot of balance and a scaled nerf so not everyone takes it hard, but you forgot to address the issue with using jump bridges.
Dave Stark
#2656 - 2014-10-02 07:00:44 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


I'm not quite au fait with current sov mechanics, but i'm sure most timers aren't less than 24hrs, correct?


Something like that.... But, take, for example NA. If you have 3 renters do this in Insmother, 2 in Detroid, 5 in Paragon Soul... you get the picture Blink


you've always got the option of just waiting an hour between jumps, or taking gates if it's really that bad...

or you know, they're renters who probably haven't got a clue about pvp so you could just take you and 4 buddies in intys and ruin their day. *shrug*

it's not like you have to drop on them the very second they squeek.
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
#2657 - 2014-10-02 07:01:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

So a even bigger blue doughnut that we have now.. great

Wasnt that the purpose of the change?


I thought it was put in so the grr goon mob can celebrate for a while then kick up a stink when they realise we adapted to the change before it even hit tranq.



That is the funny part. Alliances that have their game together will hardly notice because they have the resources and leadership to sustain a large supply chain. They may lose some systems here and there but they are going to beasts because they are doing it now so there isn't much difference.

Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#2658 - 2014-10-02 07:01:58 UTC
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
You know what will be exceptionally fun?

When renters figure out that their landlords have hard time keeping their own massive amounts of space together and decide to "change" the agreements a bit Twisted. Smart and brave renters, say hello to high end moons in your possession. Lol

Disclaimer: At least those renters who know how to play this game well (the rest will evac to highsec).
Don't be fooled. The moment renters "revolt" the landlords will blob them all to hell and back with whatever they need to kick them out. Eviction by the landlords just won't be as quick as it could be. It'll take a day for them to deploy. Then a couple days of hellcamping.
Chirality Tisteloin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2659 - 2014-10-02 07:05:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Chirality Tisteloin
baltec1 wrote:

Question.

How do you supply a small alliance on the outer edge of null with these changes to JF?


You don't. People living there will have to build everything in situ, at least that seems to be CCPs plan. Many people say that such a thing is impossible. I believe it should be. But for that we have to see the rest of the planned changes.

I find it hard to judge the viability of new lifestyles without the big picture of structure changes, sov and resource distribution.

Anyhow, there will be people who figure it out.

See you at my blog: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/
Deych
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2660 - 2014-10-02 07:05:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Deych wrote:


Just do that every day. To the multiple attack points. Your ally members will be happy. And enemy caps will be there - they do not need to jump across the universe.


We have for years. You honestly think we of all people cannot keep ourselves entertained while we travel given our record for spending 10+ hours torching towers in bombers and hellcamping stations for week at a time?


So there is no reason to cancel subsribes then? :)