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Prototype: Dojos

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Sydon Audeles
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#301 - 2014-09-25 16:29:25 UTC
As we were discussing this in my alliance IRC, someone brought up this idea as an alternative: Make a deployable object that gives a data-dump of CREST info like we had for the alliance tournament for everything happening within a certain distance of it - say, 200km. To offset the additional computing time/server cost, make it cost Aurum. Then you can setup your little tournaments around the deployable, get all that extra data to look at and analyze (and check for people breaking your tournament's rules) and have fun with, all without changing fundamental EVE mechanics whatsoever. You could also use this as a training tool - setup one of these things, duel someone a few times, then use a tool like null-sec.com's ATXII replays to point out what they did wrong or how they could have handled a situation better.

This moves forward the goal of helping people do cool things with private tournaments or events, but doesn't screw with core EVE ideas or mechanics.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#302 - 2014-09-25 16:29:32 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:

I want to trade in station all day, you want to gank me what happens? Is eve not a sandbox because you can't gank me? Nice logic.


I can destroy your target market, and thus the ability for you to profit from it. There is no game mechanic that protects you from this. That is the trading equivalent of ganking someone.

Careful throwing that 'logic' word around when you don't know what it means.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#303 - 2014-09-25 16:30:53 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

1. yes you can

2. AT has nothing at all to do with what happens on tranq

3. what has this to do with anything?

Point remains, you are stopping me from entering the arena to kill you, this goes against the sandbox.


On the contrary. The whole purpose of the thing is that you enter and (try to) kill me. :-D
Only you have to come without a cyno and/or a 20-man gang.
And actually there could be a fun fight for BOTH parties involved which is rather rare otherwise.

About the sandbox issue:
Are in-game contracts to be condemned? Because the game mechanism guarantees you cannot cheat? (as long as everyone reads the thing)
Is the market to be condemned? Because no one can just steal from the market?
Isn't that completely un-sandboxy???




Both the market and contracts can be used to scam people.
Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#304 - 2014-09-25 16:31:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


One of the ways a poster can know he's winning is when the counter-poster guy starts going on about "play styles" and crap lol

We are talking about a CORE ASPECT of EVE Online being mooted. Everyone who plays EVE (and actually likes what it is) should be concerned about this, even if it's 'not something that affects them personally".

In the same way as a PVE player I dislike high sec incursions (though I have partaken in those, an individual should just not be able t make that kind of isk while being protected by CONCORD), as an EVE player in general i don't want to see our game turned into some instanced BS where people are too busy doing 'fair fights' to do anything else.

If you introduce a mechanic that enforces fairness in a game that is BUILT upon the idea that fairness isn't even a thing (ie the 1st 11 years of EVE), you are killing the spirit of that game. Some of you can't see that because IMO you are short sighted. The same Shortsightedness saddled us with Dominion SOV (which man of you LOVED at 1st).

Calmer and smarter heads should prevail here. CCP should keep instancing and Arenas out of the game with the only exception being a few tournament events.


You realize that people having their own play style in the EvE sandbox is EvE' s core. It's their entire marketing strategy that you can be, do, act however you want in game. And guess what, if you want to be a ring leader you'd now have the chance....

Mind blown Shocked

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Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#305 - 2014-09-25 16:32:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


You realize it's childish to hide behind such an argument on a grown folks forum right?

No one cares what you do. This isn't about you anyways. it's about not wanting the developer of this game to violate one of the games core (and founding) principles for any reason some of us like EVE and want it's core to remain intact even as it evolves (as any game must).



You can't have it both ways, there is a lot of "un-eve" stuff, most of it is because of the legacy code and game design.

If CCP fix POS, will you complain about POS being easier to use? Is it un-eve to have easy POS management? Because you can check the industry change thread and some people were complaining that having a terrible UI for industry was a good thing.

You are not part of the target demographic of this change if you don't solo pvp, people have been complaining for years that CCP don't care about solo pvp now they are fixing it and of course blobbers are the first to complain. Roll

HTFU

I have a Ph.D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#306 - 2014-09-25 16:33:08 UTC
Yun Kuai wrote:


You realize that people having their own play style in the EvE sandbox is EvE' s core. It's their entire marketing strategy that you can be, do, act however you want in game. And guess what, if you want to be a ring leader you'd now have the chance....

Mind blown Shocked


You can do that already.

Blocking people from being backstabbing vagrants is taking away from the sandbox.
Ais Hellia
Jita Honor Industries Union
#307 - 2014-09-25 16:33:21 UTC
Sydon Audeles wrote:
Then you can setup your little tournaments around the deployable, get all that extra data to look at and analyze (and check for people breaking your tournament's rules)


You should be able to check the rule requirments BEFORE the fight starts not after or it is a waste of time
Regnag Leppod
Doomheim
#308 - 2014-09-25 16:33:57 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:

Guild Wars 2 also never had open world PvP. Both sPvP and WvW are separate game modes that one must elect to enter into.


This is fact, as it is with many MMOs. It does not, however, invalidate that the introduction of custom arenas didn't kill World vs. World.
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#309 - 2014-09-25 16:35:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
I'm still curious as to why the irrelevant AT and other similar events keep getting brought up.


"Mommy, why are people in a sandbox game not doing the same thing as me" - you

HTFU


You realize it's childish to hide behind such an argument on a grown folks forum right?

No one cares what you do. This isn't about you anyways. it's about not wanting the developer of this game to violate one of the games core (and founding) principles for any reason some of us like EVE and want it's core to remain intact even as it evolves (as any game must).



By this logic (as well as some of your previous posts) then wouldn't any program used outside of being logged into the EVE client be a violation of the games core(and founding) principles? I mean by your reasoning, instanced gaming is any situation in which players can interact with game mechanics with zero interference (and risk) from other players.

Jabber lets you play EVE Offline, EVEMon basically give you the advantage for long term skill training and sp optimization. Dotlan provides information on system activity and traffic, allowing you to avoid dangerous systems, EFT allows you to optimize ship fittings without having to physically own the ship, EVE Survival turns PvE into a Prima Game Guide, EVECentral allows you to inspect universe markets as compared to just a region, and yet none of these are made available in the game client, none of these contain an element of risk, and yet every one of these give distinct and significant advantages to players who use them, as compared to the new players.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#310 - 2014-09-25 16:35:59 UTC
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:

Guild Wars 2 also never had open world PvP. Both sPvP and WvW are separate game modes that one must elect to enter into.


This is fact, as it is with many MMOs. It does not, however, invalidate that the introduction of custom arenas didn't kill World vs. World.


The fact that WvW ended in the games that did have WvW when they added arenas does make that argument invalid.
Regnag Leppod
Doomheim
#311 - 2014-09-25 16:36:06 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:

If CCP fix POS, will you complain about POS being easier to use?


You weren't around for the day the whole universe collapsed into a ball of fire when they changed the font, were you.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#312 - 2014-09-25 16:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Bamboozlement
Domanique Altares wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:

I want to trade in station all day, you want to gank me what happens? Is eve not a sandbox because you can't gank me? Nice logic.


I can destroy your target market, and thus the ability for you to profit from it. There is no game mechanic that protects you from this. That is the trading equivalent of ganking someone.

Careful throwing that 'logic' word around when you don't know what it means.


Nice reading comprehension, I specifically said gank (you know, press F1 till ship explode) and a bigger capital/fast moving market protects you from this so you are wrong.

If I want to spin my ship all day in station and you want to gank me, what happens, is eve not a sandbox because you can't gank me? Nice logic. P

I have a Ph.D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#313 - 2014-09-25 16:38:03 UTC
Ruric Thyase wrote:



By this logic (as well as some of your previous posts) then wouldn't any program used outside of being logged into the EVE client be a violation of the games core(and founding) principles? I mean by your reasoning, instanced gaming is any situation in which players can interact with game mechanics with zero interference (and risk) from other players.

Jabber lets you play EVE Offline, EVEMon basically give you the advantage for long term skill training and sp optimization. Dotlan provides information on system activity and traffic, allowing you to avoid dangerous systems, EFT allows you to optimize ship fittings without having to physically own the ship, EVE Survival turns PvE into a Prima Game Guide, EVECentral allows you to inspect universe markets as compared to just a region, and yet none of these are made available in the game client, none of these contain an element of risk, and yet every one of these give distinct and significant advantages to players who use them, as compared to the new players.





All of those tools help you, they do not block people from attacking you which is what these dojos will do.
Regnag Leppod
Doomheim
#314 - 2014-09-25 16:38:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:

Guild Wars 2 also never had open world PvP. Both sPvP and WvW are separate game modes that one must elect to enter into.


This is fact, as it is with many MMOs. It does not, however, invalidate that the introduction of custom arenas didn't kill World vs. World.


The fact that WvW ended in the games that did have WvW when they added arenas does make that argument invalid.


My guess is that you won't provide statistics because you can't, and that for every game you claim crashed and burned because of this spectre of yours, I could find ex-players who place the blame on issues completely unrelated.
Sydon Audeles
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#315 - 2014-09-25 16:39:33 UTC
Ais Hellia wrote:
Sydon Audeles wrote:
Then you can setup your little tournaments around the deployable, get all that extra data to look at and analyze (and check for people breaking your tournament's rules)


You should be able to check the rule requirments BEFORE the fight starts not after or it is a waste of time


You can do that now. Have them fly out in their ships to your safe spot, have the "referee" board each ship and check the fits, then they re-board their ships and go to town. I was talking more about seeing if someone flew past a boundary distance and wasn't noticed during the fight, for instance.
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#316 - 2014-09-25 16:40:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ruric Thyase wrote:



What I wrote





All of those tools help you, they do not block people from attacking you which is what these dojos will do.


I don't think I've ever had a ship destroyed while I was on dotlan looking for alternate routes through a danger zone and thus blocked someone from atttacking me...

And dojos will allow people to attack you, just one at a time :P (yay humor!)
S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#317 - 2014-09-25 16:42:10 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:
[quote=baltec1]
I can't bomb your nullsec assets


Why not? Is your F1 key broken?


No but your assets are indestructible. Even if we capture the station, your assets are still safe.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#318 - 2014-09-25 16:43:12 UTC
Regnag Leppod wrote:


My guess is that you won't provide statistics because you can't, and that for every game you claim crashed and burned because of this spectre of yours, I could find ex-players who place the blame on issues completely unrelated.


Feel free to find a SWG vet that will tell you that world pvp ended for any other reason than because they added that accursed battleground. Hell, in space the only place you ever found PvP was in the space battleground, I spent hours flying around in a mining ship while pvp active and not a single person went for me.
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#319 - 2014-09-25 16:43:35 UTC
This is NOT EvE.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#320 - 2014-09-25 16:44:33 UTC
Ruric Thyase wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Ruric Thyase wrote:



What I wrote





All of those tools help you, they do not block people from attacking you which is what these dojos will do.


I don't think I've ever had a ship destroyed while I was on dotlan looking for alternate routes through a danger zone and thus blocked someone from atttacking me...

And dojos will allow people to attack you, just one at a time :P (yay humor!)


It didn't block people from attacking you in EVE.