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Dev blog: EVE Industry - All you want to know

First post First post First post
Author
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#401 - 2014-07-24 15:14:08 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
wait, I should clarify

bpo plumage WAS black hat seo

now it's gone forever :sun:


Talks the virgin belonging to the "Goonswarm" holy sisters cloister. The same saints who exploited uncounted billions when CCP released "Forex FW", the same who endorse the classic "500M Goonswarm membership entry fee", the same who gouged and made cartel over the Technetium market for years.

The same who studied every exploit possible to twist and shape EvE grids to PvP advantage and... I just can't list the endless series of filth your alliance has done through the years.

And now they come here preaching'n'teaching on the high moral ground like holy sisters. This is just gross. Lol

the difference is we don't ***** and moan when they patch out our latest scam and stamp our feet demanding compensation, we come up with a new one

scamming people is great, but when ccp eliminated freeform contracts we did not demand compensation for the loss of our ability to more easily scam people

hell, when we were living high off the hog on technetium and had so much money that we paid half of highsec to kill the other half, did we demand ccp never touch tech and demand to be compensated once they did? of course not: we loudly advocated that it be nerfed even as we built palaces out of pure cocaine from our technetium funds

we are the best because we continually adapt and find new ways to scrabble to the top

edit: apparently a fine white powdery drug is a censored word on eveo
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#402 - 2014-07-24 15:17:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Ias Zel wrote:
After years of playing WoW and all the time and money I spent on the expansions I quit playing after they changed the game so much that it had no resembelance to the original. EVE is starting to go the same way. If you guys at CCP think that changing the game to attract more kiddies or to justify the existance of your programmers is going to get you more business - it won't. I have no problem moving on to another game before my investment in this one goes down the drain. Stop messing with the game - IF it ain't broke don't fix it. I saw nothing wrong with the way Industry was before and I can't figure out what is what now.

I play games that are challenging to figure out and that I have fun playing. I do NOT have fun trying to learn a game over again because some idiots in some dept. in your company decided it was a good idea to change something that didn't need changing. I'm tired of investing REAL time and REAL money in games that change their whole make-up every couple of months/years. World of Warcraft started out as "High Plains Drifter" and it turned into "Bridges Of Maddison County". Don't do the same thing to EVE.

Bottom line is this - change something else and I'm gone.


There is an huge issue with EvE and this (and past) expansion is just a byproduct of it.


EvE has born a rare jewel. The person(s) who first envisioned EvE were enlightnened visionaires no less genius than a Steve Jobs. They created something that nobody else has yet rivalled, the EvE concept, its very base mechanics, it's inner philosophy,,, all incredible and novel intuitions each taken by itself... and EvE managed to have them all in one product!

It's THIS unique frawework, THIS concept that made EvE famous and unrepeatable.

Sure, there have been many "boot.ini" bumps on the road. The playerbase complained a lot yet... they stayed loyal. Why? Because they could see the inner gem that is in EvE. Maybe rough but still a gem.

But nothing lasts forever. The visionaires are gone now.

And for some unfathomable reason, there is this horrific idea (expecially in Information Technology) that you can replace a man of Great Vision with a legion of well mannered clerks, dutyfully doing their menial tasks, which somehow should bring them similar results or at least similar credit.

It's not so.

EvE is now in the hands of people with undiscussed skill, with technical prowess, with evident knowledge of the most recent development techniques. But they are not visionaires. It's not to downplay their hard work, but each one its own: visionaires should dictate the long term objectives, "normal technicians" should implement them.
NEVER let a "normal technician" set the objectives, because the same characteristics that make a technician dependable, realistic, concrete... are a great obstacle to long term inspiration and vision.

I'd take a Chris Taylor or Chris Roberts as game designer over ANY excellent but "normal routine mentality" man.

CCP went for the latter and thus it's years it's conceptually stagnating. A well polished but less and less inspiring experience, a less engrossing impact on the player.

Only so, you can explain the removal of the *trademark signature* that was the animated log in screen, which put awe in the new players and was a nice sight (and soundtrack!) for the oldbies.

Those who truly love EvE cannot stay silent, cannot see a grand vision slowly fading into a "normal software for normal men" routine and say nothing.


A visionaire would not focus on changing a (if not the most) functional EvE subsystem. He would focus into making EvE a source of ethernal envy even for the new coming AAA space titles.

No game prevailed because its BPOs numbers were rescaled to 10, they prevail because they awe the players, they tell them an epic, grand story. And EvE is drying up exactly when the competition are showing awe inspiring stories and features.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#403 - 2014-07-24 15:24:34 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:

or did you forget that grid fu and forex were summarily punished


You forget they were big exploits, whereas Research and Development are tenets of any modern civilization and were fully endorsed for a decade.


Retar Aveymone wrote:

the difference is we don't ***** and moan when they patch out our latest scam and stamp our feet demanding compensation, we come up with a new one

Come on, I was there to see the galaxies of tears that happened when CCP actually (mildly) punished for the Forex FW exploit.


[quote=Retar Aveymone]
we are the best because we continually adapt and find new ways to scrabble to the top


...yet when others scrabble to the top you are in first line to put them down.

Just because I am not a son of a Beep and earned my position with hard work instead of "creative scrabbling", does not make me any less worth "staying at the top" than you guys.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#404 - 2014-07-24 15:28:59 UTC
ah yes the thinly veiled "star citizen is totally real and is going to push your poop in" response
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#405 - 2014-07-24 15:32:40 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Come on, I was there to see the galaxies of tears that happened when CCP actually (mildly) punished for the Forex FW exploit.

[citation needed]
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#406 - 2014-07-24 15:36:11 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

...yet when others scrabble to the top you are in first line to put them down.

Just because I am not a son of a Beep and earned my position with hard work instead of "creative scrabbling", does not make me any less worth "staying at the top" than you guys.

nobody has yet scrabbled anywhere near the top but the top is our territory, we stay king of the hill by knocking down the scrubs that come at us

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#407 - 2014-07-24 15:37:09 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Come on, I was there to see the galaxies of tears that happened when CCP actually (mildly) punished for the Forex FW exploit.

[citation needed]


EvE search it by yourself, it's not my charge to write down official mementos about the facts happened to (top) members of your own organization.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#408 - 2014-07-24 15:39:36 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

...yet when others scrabble to the top you are in first line to put them down.

Just because I am not a son of a Beep and earned my position with hard work instead of "creative scrabbling", does not make me any less worth "staying at the top" than you guys.

nobody has yet scrabbled anywhere near the top but the top is our territory, we stay king of the hill by knocking down the scrubs that come at us



You are right, it's now years that you manage to get the game changed towards your own vision. The only "glitch" in that is, the other players are paying a sub to witness your "being at the top" and one day might get tired of that.
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#409 - 2014-07-24 15:44:01 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:

or did you forget that grid fu and forex were summarily punished


You forget they were big exploits, whereas Research and Development are tenets of any modern civilization and were fully endorsed for a decade.


Retar Aveymone wrote:

the difference is we don't ***** and moan when they patch out our latest scam and stamp our feet demanding compensation, we come up with a new one

Come on, I was there to see the galaxies of tears that happened when CCP actually (mildly) punished for the Forex FW exploit.


[quote=Retar Aveymone]
we are the best because we continually adapt and find new ways to scrabble to the top


...yet when others scrabble to the top you are in first line to put them down.

Just because I am not a son of a Beep and earned my position with hard work instead of "creative scrabbling", does not make me any less worth "staying at the top" than you guys.


These "Goonie Twins" honestly do not see any difference between intelligent marketing of an item of real value and scamming in Jita local IMO. Don't waste your time even addressing them, as everything they post is pretty much O/T or another attempt to drag this thread further off topic. They (?) are just space trash.

Must admit they are good for a laugh once in awhile...kinda like Beavis and Butthead with free spell checking and a posting doctrine.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#410 - 2014-07-24 15:45:21 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Come on, I was there to see the galaxies of tears that happened when CCP actually (mildly) punished for the Forex FW exploit.

[citation needed]


EvE search it by yourself, it's not my charge to write down official mementos about the facts happened to (top) members of your own organization.

i did, they don't exist
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#411 - 2014-07-24 15:47:28 UTC
generally when someone pulls out the ol' standby of [citation needed] they already know that the evidence doesn't exist
Retar Aveymone
DJ's Retirement Fund
Goonswarm Federation
#412 - 2014-07-24 15:47:32 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

You are right, it's now years that you manage to get the game changed towards your own vision. The only "glitch" in that is, the other players are paying a sub to witness your "being at the top" and one day might get tired of that.

i can assure you that you or your overresearched bpos were not part of our potential threat analysis
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#413 - 2014-07-24 15:48:41 UTC
though if fabricating a vignette where people were upset about it helps distract you from the harsh reality that you will never be that successful at a video game then by all means wish away
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#414 - 2014-07-24 15:51:13 UTC
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

You are right, it's now years that you manage to get the game changed towards your own vision. The only "glitch" in that is, the other players are paying a sub to witness your "being at the top" and one day might get tired of that.

i can assure you that you or your overresearched bpos were not part of our potential threat analysis

like cats, we occasionally hunt for sport, not for survival
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#415 - 2014-07-24 15:54:03 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
though if fabricating a vignette where people were upset about it helps distract you from the harsh reality that you will never be that successful at a video game then by all means wish away


Sadly I have been too successful at EvE (in other games I was "just" one player in one of many top server guilds), I have achieved all my objectives and now I am getting a bit bored. I even tried restarting from scratch, but... it's not the same thing, I know the "rules and tricks" and this spoils a genuine restart.
Arist en Daire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#416 - 2014-07-24 17:18:59 UTC
Acks wrote:
Jonathan Yatolila wrote:
Acks wrote:
Jonathan Yatolila wrote:
and don't even talk about ore reprocessing. I went from 100% refine to 67%. This is really FUBAR!!!!! Someone in CCP really needs to fix - or better yet - undo this garbage.

Oh well, at least I used to focus on active Trade - and that is what i will be going back to -- but just watch CCP screw that up too.




With Max skills, +4% refining implant, and 50% refine station you get exact same perfect refine on ice. You get about 98% of previous on ore. You have to take into account the new ore batch sizes and the fact they increased the total mins in the ore. So yes, while in the UI it says you are getting 69% (or whatever), it is still possible to get the same amount of mins from the same amount of ore as before (or at least REALLY close).


Thanks I will check that out on my alt that does the refine. Worst case scenario is that it will give me better refine than now. Will also have to check to see the ore/mineral refine results and compare them. I do hope you are correct - and if proven correct - I will gladly post a retraction - as it would give a real value then to the implant which prior had no real value. Big smile


I verified on SISI 3 hours before the patch went live. I have not reverified post patch, but unless they seriously altered things in those last few hours it should still hold true.

Arist en Daire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#417 - 2014-07-24 17:30:49 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

ME (and PE on a minor effect) are to BPC traders what SEO is to search engines.


a scam that will get your site blackholed by google when they find you've been deceiving their users by abusing their algorithm with tricks that gave you more attention than your content deserved?

what a good analogy, im glad we're on the same side of this issue


Have you EVER worked on SEO? Does not seem so.

i have not worked in optimizing scam sites to get better google rankings then complained when google's update blackholes my site, no

why do you ask


So, to you Amazon.com, TripAdvisor, Booking.com... and thousands top websites (and top SEO optimized websites) and any E-commerce website based on Magento (and others) are a scam?

Are you joking?

I mean, how can anyone ever listen to ONE of your sentences with a minimum of credibility after these gross sweeping statements?


Ah my dear fellow industrialist --- it is because he is such an id**t with only one desire - more targets to gank that he posts as he does. You've done well trying to counter some of his crap and to point out his lack of knowledge but he won't get it -- or perhaps he really does get it - but posts on here strictly as a Goon with a Goon mentality.
Arist en Daire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#418 - 2014-07-24 17:47:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Arist en Daire
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Ias Zel wrote:
After years of playing WoW and all the time and money I spent on the expansions I quit playing after they changed the game so much that it had no resembelance to the original. EVE is starting to go the same way. If you guys at CCP think that changing the game to attract more kiddies or to justify the existance of your programmers is going to get you more business - it won't. I have no problem moving on to another game before my investment in this one goes down the drain. Stop messing with the game - IF it ain't broke don't fix it. I saw nothing wrong with the way Industry was before and I can't figure out what is what now.

I play games that are challenging to figure out and that I have fun playing. I do NOT have fun trying to learn a game over again because some idiots in some dept. in your company decided it was a good idea to change something that didn't need changing. I'm tired of investing REAL time and REAL money in games that change their whole make-up every couple of months/years. World of Warcraft started out as "High Plains Drifter" and it turned into "Bridges Of Maddison County". Don't do the same thing to EVE.

Bottom line is this - change something else and I'm gone.


There is an huge issue with EvE and this (and past) expansion is just a byproduct of it.


EvE has born a rare jewel. The person(s) who first envisioned EvE were enlightnened visionaires no less genius than a Steve Jobs. They created something that nobody else has yet rivalled, the EvE concept, its very base mechanics, it's inner philosophy,,, all incredible and novel intuitions each taken by itself... and EvE managed to have them all in one product!

It's THIS unique frawework, THIS concept that made EvE famous and unrepeatable.


Sure, there have been many "boot.ini" bumps on the road. The playerbase complained a lot yet... they stayed loyal. Why? Because they could see the inner gem that is in EvE. Maybe rough but still a gem.

But nothing lasts forever. The visionaires are gone now.

And for some unfathomable reason, there is this horrific idea (expecially in Information Technology) that you can replace a man of Great Vision with a legion of well mannered clerks, dutyfully doing their menial tasks, which somehow should bring them similar results or at least similar credit.

It's not so.

EvE is now in the hands of people with undiscussed skill, with technical prowess, with evident knowledge of the most recent development techniques. But they are not visionaires. It's not to downplay their hard work, but each one its own: visionaires should dictate the long term objectives, "normal technicians" should implement them.
NEVER let a "normal technician" set the objectives, because the same characteristics that make a technician dependable, realistic, concrete... are a great obstacle to long term inspiration and vision.

I'd take a Chris Taylor or Chris Roberts as game designer over ANY excellent but "normal routine mentality" man.

CCP went for the latter and thus it's years it's conceptually stagnating. A well polished but less and less inspiring experience, a less engrossing impact on the player.

Only so, you can explain the removal of the *trademark signature* that was the animated log in screen, which put awe in the new players and was a nice sight (and soundtrack!) for the oldbies.

Those who truly love EvE cannot stay silent, cannot see a grand vision slowly fading into a "normal software for normal men" routine and say nothing.


A visionaire would not focus on changing a (if not the most) functional EvE subsystem. He would focus into making EvE a source of ethernal envy even for the new coming AAA space titles.

No game prevailed because its BPOs numbers were rescaled to 10, they prevail because they awe the players, they tell them an epic, grand story. And EvE is drying up exactly when the competition are showing awe inspiring stories and features.



Couldn't say it better than this. With two accounts and two toons per account, and having played for over 2 years, I can count the number of times I've plexed my account on one hand and have fingers left over. In other words, I have paid good money to play -- and now look at what these Goon driven CCP developers have done.

I initially came to the game because I liked the PvP, PvE aspect of the game -- I can understand those folks who want more juicy targets to come to null-sec --- BUT I stayed because of the industrial aspects of the game. The very aspects that the Goon driven CCP developers have chosen to destroy so that the Goons can be happier.

I don't inhabit or even dip a toe into null - why? because my PTSD issues - from having served in Iraq and Afghanistan and having done 30 years of military service - has dulled my reflexes to the point that PvP is a "bang - dang, I'm dead again".

There are a lot of veteran players who have spent time in null - didn't like it and returned to high sec and some forays into low sec. Why punish them for not wanting to play the Goons game? Why - because the Goons have representation on the CSM that outweighs their numbers when compared to the actual numbers of people who play the game - but are in much smaller alliances/corporations. CCP - listen - the Goons are NOT the entire game and are not the only ones paying your paychecks with their free play via the use of PLEX.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#419 - 2014-07-24 19:15:38 UTC
i think i just got an eve-o bingo with the last couple of posts in this thread
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#420 - 2014-07-25 00:19:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Dalilus
i really cannot understand why in the age of

you only live once
keep it real
uniqueness
i do what i want
one of a kind tattoos
custom paint jobs for all sorts of machines
mine is bigger, better than yours and there it's the only one
single cask beers
one run vinyl albums
etc.

devs want everyone in eve to sit in a circle and circle jerk. sorry to break it to you devs but that is not where society is going. if nullbears are tired of circle jerking each other, have them change hands, swap stained sweaty seat cushions, change places in the circle, try doing it underwater, join the circle jerkers mile high club or stand up and get a conga line going. not everyone wants to be a nullbear bitc# running around having a master telling you what to do, when to do it, where to do it and abusing you on social media even if all their instructions were followed to the letter. even worse are nullbear ho's, pets or whatever they are now called paying protection, extortion, money to their masters so they can eek out an existance in null and proudly proclaim, I am someone's pet making them tons of isk and belong to XXXXXX alliance while their landlords brag about how happy their girls are making them. few people think like that, mostly the abused, serious party item dealers/consumers and bullies.

i guess the csm election results have loooong been forgotten or rationalized. fortunately for the devs the competition seems to be shooting themselves on the feet, ankles, calves......on their way upward. players logging tell the story, has crius been a hit? maybe it will get better on the weekend.

52 jumps to find the nearest team, are you frigging kidding me? lol, who was the lemon pop sickle that came up with that one?

Edit:
55% reprocessing efficiency at empire stations Shocked holy mother of all nerfs Batman, said Robin.