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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#661 - 2014-06-20 14:49:05 UTC
So for a while I used to just fly around blapping pods in high sec for lols. I NEVER got any money from it, straight up loss making...but boy it was funny. I might need to revisit that passtime.

Point is, the assumption that ganking is motivated exclusive for profit is a massive error on your part.

Here are some reminders

1) High sec is NOT perfect sec
2) CONCORD simply PUNISH. They do not protect
3) Some men really DO just want to see the world burn
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#662 - 2014-06-20 19:08:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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Thread unlocked.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
ElCholo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#663 - 2014-06-20 23:35:48 UTC
ISD Ezwal wrote:
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited.

Racism, gender stereotyping and hate speech are not permitted on the EVE Online Forums. Derogatory posting that includes race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension of forum posting privileges.

10. Discussion of warnings and bans is prohibited.

Such matters shall remain private between CCP and the involved user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through email or private messaging. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including petition responses and emails) received from any of the aforementioned parties.

11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.

12. Spamming is prohibited.

Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or nonsensical post that has no substance and is often designed to annoy other forum users. This can include the words “first”, “go back to (insert other game name)” and other such posts that contribute no value to forum discussion. Spamming also includes the posting of ASCII art within a forum post.

15. Posting about bugs and exploits is prohibited.

Bugs and exploits should be reported through the proper channels. Bugs should be brought to the attention of CCP by filing a bug report for our Quality Assurance department. More information on filing bug reports can be found here. Discussions about unverified issues in game can cause unnecessary panic in the community. When there is an issue that the EVE Online community needs to be aware of, it will be communicated via an official statement from CCP after thorough investigation.

19. All posts must be related to EVE Online.

Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only.

26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.

Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the well being and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators.



Thread unlocked.


I know that you probably get very little of this, but thank you for doing your best to keep the forums a happy and emotionally healthy place. :) No sarcasm, complete sincerity. Thank you. \o/
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#664 - 2014-06-20 23:37:06 UTC
Azov Rassau wrote:

If you looked at my previous posts, you'd see how I notice the attitude problem on miners too, and I agree that miners are generally more rude compared to gankers.

I am trying to pull your attention to the fact that there are attitude problems on both sides, not just miners. To realize this, you actually need to spend some long time in HS and see how awful the situation is.


Yeah, not buying it. There is no moral equivalency between one group who spews out death threats and sexual insults in local at the sight of an alliance ticker, and one that does not.

There is no mutual attitude problem between one group who plays the game by the rules, and one group who wants to get the rules changed so the first group can't exist anymore.

And it's a joke whenever someone tries to equate the two groups.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#665 - 2014-06-21 01:07:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
...one group who plays the game by the rules, and one group who wants to get the rules changed so the first group can't exist anymore...

One group wants the game to change to accommodate their play style, the other changes their play style to accommodate the game.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
skylark littleassey
RAG TAG CENTURIAN RAIDERS
#666 - 2014-06-21 02:11:36 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
...one group who plays the game by the rules, and one group who wants to get the rules changed so the first group can't exist anymore...

One group wants the game to change to accommodate their play style, the other changes their play style to accommodate the game.


Pretty much says it above, change there play style, hire escorts etc problem solved. Eve is about over coming problems like in real life, a bit of lateral thinking, a bit of ingenuity. if your getting ganked hire an escort or 3. or like stated before a couple of logi's some bulk heads etc theres a solution for every problem. instead of whining, solve the problem and enjoy watching the gankers burn :)
Adunh Slavy
#667 - 2014-06-21 05:44:11 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
If this is true, empty freighters being ganked, then it shows there is a significant imbalance.

It is true, but I'm not sure how it can be considered an imbalance. If the ships are destructible there should be and are balanced ways to destroy them.


I am not speaking to the mechanics balance of HP, DPS, etc. I am speaking to economics of it. The only gain for the ganker is LOLs, not profit.

As to a solution, who knows. Could be options other than buffing HP on freighters.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#668 - 2014-06-21 05:45:13 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Azov Rassau wrote:

If you looked at my previous posts, you'd see how I notice the attitude problem on miners too, and I agree that miners are generally more rude compared to gankers.

I am trying to pull your attention to the fact that there are attitude problems on both sides, not just miners. To realize this, you actually need to spend some long time in HS and see how awful the situation is.


Yeah, not buying it. There is no moral equivalency between one group who spews out death threats and sexual insults in local at the sight of an alliance ticker, and one that does not.

There is no mutual attitude problem between one group who plays the game by the rules, and one group who wants to get the rules changed so the first group can't exist anymore.

And it's a joke whenever someone tries to equate the two groups.

Something iv noticed aswell, even discussing a topic like this needs adult isd supervision.
Discussion threads like this one ( for anyone following before they get purged of filth) never show the pve crowd in any light even approaching civil.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Rectile
Warped
#669 - 2014-06-21 06:04:33 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Some men just want to watch the world burn.

There's space for us all in New Eden.



There is your answer OP, sorry its not the one you were hoping for.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#670 - 2014-06-21 06:09:24 UTC
Actually Ganking has decreased compared to a few years ago.

CCP has made it harder for the Gents to Gank ships. The difference now however, it is a lot more celebrated/posted about/blogged about then it was in the past which is why you hear about it so often. Which creates the illusion that is happening a lot more often.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
ashley Eoner
#671 - 2014-06-21 06:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Actually Ganking has decreased compared to a few years ago.

CCP has made it harder for the Gents to Gank ships. The difference now however, it is a lot more celebrated/posted about/blogged about then it was in the past which is why you hear about it so often. Which creates the illusion that is happening a lot more often.

Citation?

I have seen far more ganks now then even during the last real hulkageddon.

Post catalyst/destroyer change in particular.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#672 - 2014-06-21 06:22:23 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Actually Ganking has decreased compared to a few years ago.

CCP has made it harder for the Gents to Gank ships. The difference now however, it is a lot more celebrated/posted about/blogged about then it was in the past which is why you hear about it so often. Which creates the illusion that is happening a lot more often.

Citation?

I have seen far more ganks now then even during the last real hulkageddon.

Post catalyst/destroyer change in particular.


Just an observation from what I saw in the past regarding barges being killed.

I will however admit that I have seen a lot more Freighters die thanks to Loyal efforts. Which the OP is complaining about.

I am sure it made people that build these ships a lot happier.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Lena Lazair
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#673 - 2014-06-21 07:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lena Lazair
Whee. I've ganked miners with CODE. I've hauled freight for a living. I've done a lot of other things too, but those are the relevant bits for today.

Ganking is fine. Hauling is fine. Everyone should cool their jets.

Is hauling suffering? Well, last time I sent an RFF contract through the Aufay pipe, they didn't charge me extra and it showed up on time. I don't see them changing their pricing or schedules to make exceptions for Aufay. Or Niarja. Or Uedama. Or any other previously hot system. In fact the only time they seem to change their prices or volumes is in response to changes to core mechanics made by CCP. So I'll go out on a limb and say if the professional haulers of EVE handling hundreds of contracts a day aren't feeling the squeeze from Aufay ganking, hauling cannot possibly be suffering much.

On the flip side, ganking with a cat fleet at -10 actually takes some organization and skill. Not a ton, mind, but certainly more than being a button bunny in FW or an F1 null fleet drone. Anyone knocking those guys should go run with a CODE gank fleet for a few weeks before speaking up again (or, better yet, FC a CODE gank fleet for a few weeks). Not only that, but the logistics to KEEP them ganking are non-trivial. Which also tends to pin them down to a single area for at least a few weeks, which makes them easy enough to avoid.

The risk to haulers is low to minimal. If you didn't know Aufay was hot right now, you should pay better attention as a hauler. Hot systems are nothing even remotely new to hauling and anyone who's been hauling for more than a day knows how to find out which systems to avoid this week (watch killboards, join the haulers channel, read miner bumping, read an EVE news source of some kind, look at the starmap stats...). Avoiding Aufay adds like 2 jumps to an average trip through that pipe. Whoop. De. Doo. You don't even have to fly ATK. The month that Palas was hot was a lot more annoying than this.

tl;dr: I am a lot more nervous undocking in my incursion Nightmare than I am when running cargo AFK in a freighter.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#674 - 2014-06-21 08:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
ashley Eoner wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Actually Ganking has decreased compared to a few years ago.

CCP has made it harder for the Gents to Gank ships. The difference now however, it is a lot more celebrated/posted about/blogged about then it was in the past which is why you hear about it so often. Which creates the illusion that is happening a lot more often.

Citation?

I have seen far more ganks now then even during the last real hulkageddon.

Post catalyst/destroyer change in particular.

CSM minutes (I think last winter?) - a little while after the barge changes it was revealed that suicide ganking was at an all time low, and was still declining.

Suicide ganking is going down. In fact, the reason you probably hear more about it, is because the people who do get ganked are more surprised and had a deeper illusion of safety.

If it weren't for organised groups like Miniluv & CODE. doing it, there would be hardly any ganking at all; the barrier for entry has been raised over and over, and it's profit margins are almost nothing. I doubt any freighters would be hit at all.
It has been sequentially nerfed multiple times in the last ~4 years, ignoring all the buffs to CONCORD that came before that, too.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Solecist Project
#675 - 2014-06-21 09:14:34 UTC
To be fair here...

CCP dropped the RoF penalty on destroyers,
giving them a huge dps buff.

CCP introduced the tornado,
which is a great suicide ganking ship.

I can't share your thought about them having raised the barrier at all.
When I started again, it was the same as it was in March 2012 ...
... not hard at all.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#676 - 2014-06-21 09:25:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Solecist Project wrote:
To be fair here...

CCP dropped the RoF penalty on destroyers,
giving them a huge dps buff.

CCP introduced the tornado,
which is a great suicide ganking ship.

I can't share your thought about them having raised the barrier at all.
When I started again, it was the same as it was in March 2012 ...
... not hard at all.

Literally happened in the expansion that removed insurance for CONCORD mails; using a tornado is still 5x more expensive than it used to cost to gank in a Tempest. The ROF buffs to the destroyer line are only useful at all because people had to ship down from doing it in more expensive hulls (even then, a 25% buff to cat DPS doesn't make up for the insurance loss in hull costs).
Since then there have been a few CONCORD tweaks, but the main changes for making it anyway viable:

- Crimewatch 2.0 makes loot scooping exponentially harder
- Tweaks to the original Crimewatch 2.0 release that removed a few legal work-arounds
- Mega-buff to mining barges
- Potential EHP of freighters has gone way up

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#677 - 2014-06-21 10:18:43 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
To be fair here...

CCP dropped the RoF penalty on destroyers,
giving them a huge dps buff.

CCP introduced the tornado,
which is a great suicide ganking ship.

I can't share your thought about them having raised the barrier at all.
When I started again, it was the same as it was in March 2012 ...
... not hard at all.

Literally happened in the expansion that removed insurance for CONCORD mails; using a tornado is still 5x more expensive than it used to cost to gank in a Tempest. The ROF buffs to the destroyer line are only useful at all because people had to ship down from doing it in more expensive hulls (even then, a 25% buff to cat DPS doesn't make up for the insurance loss in hull costs).
Since then there have been a few CONCORD tweaks, but the main changes for making it anyway viable:

- Crimewatch 2.0 makes loot scooping exponentially harder
- Tweaks to the original Crimewatch 2.0 release that removed a few legal work-arounds
- Mega-buff to mining barges
- Potential EHP of freighters has gone way up


You forgot:

- Warp Drives disabled after going GCC
- Sec status penalties increased

As has been said time & time again, the average player won't be happy until suicide ganking is banned.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#678 - 2014-06-21 10:31:36 UTC
CCP has to buff ganking because it's at an all time low.

The Tears Must Flow
Heinrich Erquilenne
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#679 - 2014-06-21 10:37:03 UTC
skylark littleassey wrote:
Pretty much says it above, change there play style, hire escorts etc problem solved. Eve is about over coming problems like in real life, a bit of lateral thinking, a bit of ingenuity. if your getting ganked hire an escort or 3. or like stated before a couple of logi's some bulk heads etc theres a solution for every problem. instead of whining, solve the problem and enjoy watching the gankers burn :)


The only escort you will ever need is ECM drones. And a lot of HPs on your ship. Any industrial or freighter that isn't fitted to be as tanky as possible will be ganked eventually. Also manually jumping without any delay makes you quite hard to catch in high sec. Autopilot is slow and not reliable. It severely cuts into profits, unlike afk mining, mind you.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#680 - 2014-06-21 11:16:43 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
CCP has to buff ganking because it's at an all time low.


Implants dropping from pods would be a good start. Restoring CONCORD response time to the pre-2008 standard would be a plus.

Removing faction police wouldn't affect ganking much, but would allow a great deal more fighting between pirates and 'Vigilantes' in high sec, where today 95% of the fighting is hopelessly precluded by unlimited NPC intervention in 20 seconds.