EVE General Discussion

Now this thread is a nice kettle of fish, now with dev herrings.

Still going huh?

Damn these heresies against HTFU are stacking up in here. Going to be no-one left in high sec at this point.

When i set off for work I do several things :

Car keys - check
House locked - check
Car full of fuel for the journey - check
Car not going to 'splode on route - check
Traffic route looked at for alerts - check
have i got my communication tools? - check
Do I got noms? - check



its all unconcious. Forgetting any of these things will make my day 100% ******.


Apply all of the above to Eve

Ship - check
Undock safe? - check
Ship full of cap and stuff - check
Ship repaired? - Check
Have all of the ships died on the route i am about to take? - check
Is anyone online to escort me? - check
Do I got noms? - check


its all unconcious. Forgetting any of these things will make my day 100% ******.

The proof that ganking is too easy to do is when empty freighters are targetted in hi-sec space. Some were even tanked with 3 bulkheads, and empty, still ganked.

Nobody is asking for ganking to be removed, but the mechanics could use a change. Nobody should be able to stay at -10 in hi-sec and continue to gank people. Ship use should be restricted if you are an outlaw trying to use a system that is above your level of security status. You can still travel anywhere in a pod, and possible a shuttle if they allow that.

If you want to keep ganking in hi-sec , you can, but first you need to fix your sec status. I know right now that it's quite cheap using the new pirate drop, but if this change is made, more people will buy it, and the price will go up.

I never said what I suggest will fix the game, but it will help. Rarely is there any one single change that can fix something completely.

They are not cheap, hence why most dont bother with them. You have just nerfed everyone that pvps in lowsec and greatly damaged EVE in the long run.

Ganking has been nerfed to the point now where any more nerfs to it will effectivly remove it as a viable profession. You have the tools and tactics you need, it is entirely your own fault if you get ganked now.

Some of us just want to watch the world learn.

Professor Loyalanon's lessons are unexpected and expensive, but they make the point in a manner that is not quickly forgotten.

In EVE, safety begins with you. Watch your starmap for obvious traps. Buy your permit as a cheap way to prevent pointless losses. And remember... CONSTANT VIGILANCE!

To be completely honest, suicide ganking activities should be increased by a factor of 100, just to be able to see the bigger picture and impact on the game without personal views on the subject from all three sides: the victims, the gankers and CCP's game designers. It looks like CSM and CCP are not even willing to look at whether the subject needs any attention in the first place without sufficient data to see the behavioral patterns of their subscribers.

So I say to the CODE. and to everyone else involved in the activity: intensify the activities as much as you possibly can. Recruit new pilots, be more active and amass as much kills as possible in a day by covering all time zones. When the activity reaches significantly higher levels, then we would be able to see on a large scale what really happens and if anything needs to be changed. Oh... and create as detailed statistics as possible and drop it on a web page so you will have the strongest argument available when it comes to reviewing the actual situation.

On that scale, even the slightest problems in the mechanics would become visible if they exist at all. So neither side could claim that the problem lies in the other side. Hopefully, enough damage would be made for CSM and CCP to pay at least some attention to it and finally say if it's OK in the current shape and form or not.

In case you are wondering and can't grasp the magnitude of what I'm talking about, I'm talking about prolonged, months long action that combines Burn Jita and Hulkageddon with expansion of "Burn" part to all major trade and mission hubs. Everything and anything should be included and tested just to cover all aspects of ganking and have measurable statistics about whether anything should be changed: freighters, mining ships, industrials, mission ships (battleships, T3s, Marauders...).

It's obvious that on current magnitude CCP and CSM are not even willing to look at the activity to see if there are any problems and stick to years old catch phrases that are outdated in today's EVE (see dev post in this thread for reference). Currently both sides, victims and gankers, bang their heads against the wall playing with flaming, trolling, extremely subjective approach, quoting and responding out of context and playing with semantics on the forum which obviously lead only to pointless hard to read threadnoughts where nothing constructive has ever created. I say, give CCP some data meat to chew on and see what happens.

One thing both sides should remember is this:
After the over magnified action like this, not a single side would have any argument to complain whatsoever if the result of CCP's action would be negative for their side: for both victims and gankers - since the decision and action (or lack of it) would be based on cold hard objective data.

Gank away, fellow pilots. Gank like you have never ganked before.

You are so organised. When I set off for work it's more like this:

Car keys - crap I'm late already. Where are my keys..."hon, where are my keys"... ..."how the hell would I know. You never put them in the same place twice"... ...15 minutes later. There they are in the pocket of the pants I wore yesterday, which have already been washed by my clean freak wife. Hope the electronics door key still works...
House locked - Um. The front's probably locked... ...The back, not so much. Who cares, the cat will scare away the Kangaroos
Car full of fuel for the journey - "F'ing bloody hell. Damn you Kay [my wife]. The car's empty again. Why didn't you fill it when you were out"
Car not going to 'splode on route - hmmm... ...check
Traffic route looked at for alerts - What? That's a little anal. If I hit traffic, I'll just change route along with everyobody else so we are all miserable and stuck in traffic together. Still moving at 5 kph for an extra 20 km is better than sitting still behind that accident... ...Of course the radio traffic report lets me know the accident had been cleared... F'ing bloody hell.
have i got my communication tools? - What. Oh my phone. Yep, been looking at Eve-O forum while I'm driving. One day I'm going to be the cause of that accident that holds everyone up
Do I got noms? - What? Do I get what? I just eventually get to work and then have to deal with my team of 12 staff. This is going to be fun. No wonder I work long hours....

No, 330 Billion have already been spent.

Whether in catalysts or in James 315's personal 'projects', it still proves ISK is an effective balancing factor.

You're suggesting to remove balancing factors to prove that, without them, the system isn't balanced.

You're having issues with logic, not semantics.

You do realize that ganking has been nerfed over and over again, yes? If players still cannot figure out how not to lose their Freighter, they deserve to lose their Freighter. And the fact that you sympathize for them is scary as it proposes the idea that you want Highsec to become ever more safe than it already is.

Obligatory WoW joke.

A "tank" fit Obelisk can have 370k EHP vs. relevant damage types. This would require 17,000-21,000 DPS in a 0.5 system. And that's the bare minimum you would want to have; that fact of the matter is you would want to bring more DPS than the minimum.

Obtaining this amount of DPS isn't easy and it's likely your fleet will have over 25 characters after all roles are met and assuming not everyone is a level 5 Talos pilot. In fact just the other day I was in a gank fleet that had close to 50 characters in fleet. This is a feat in of itself.

So, all you see is a ship go boom and automatically think how easy it must have been. It's easy to believe this, because again, that's all you get to see. What you don't get to see all the work that's going on in the background. The logistics. The intel and scouting. The bumping. Setting up the warp-ins for -10 players who can only be on grid for short periods of time before Faction Police scrams them; hence one of the downfalls to being -10 in Highsec. The communication between the aforementioned roles, the FC and the players on grid. Setting up and making sure the looters are in position before and after the target goes down. FC'ing a fleet that could be considered a "small" Nullsec roaming fleet. And, the fact that all of this needs to be done relatively quickly. Not to mention the slightest mistake can completely screw everything up. This is what I can come up with off the top of my head. It's not that ganking a Freighter isn't difficult, but there's a lot more that goes on than just some ships exploding.

Oh and it's not like CCP hands us free Talos', although that would be nice. Maybe in an upcoming patch???