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Has suicide ganking become a problem? Empty freighters being ganked.

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Author
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#221 - 2014-06-17 10:35:34 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


We dont bother with sec tags. Even when open to pvp from everyone people wont attack us.


What about when the faction cops take an interest? Do you just rat for sec the old fashioned way?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Valleria Darkmoon
No Salvation
Top Belt for Fun
#222 - 2014-06-17 10:40:55 UTC
Christina Project wrote:
Noragli wrote:
The problem is that -10 characters or other low sec status characters can operate ships and attack people in high security space.

Nope.

The problem is that these people hide in station so much that people rightfully have the feeling
that they can't do anything about it ... because they can't.

These cowards hide, have neutral alts finding targets,
undock, strike, dock up again.

The whole ganking process doesn't take even a minute.


The issue is NOT that they can do what they do,
the issue is that they do it in the poorest possible way,
negatively affecting the whole profession.


What CCP needs to remove is that people can play this way,
because they shouldn't. Being outlaw in highsec should be dangerous.

Well ... it is ... but not for the easy-mode carebear gankers.

I doubt you understand how this works, high sec is actually extraordinarily dangerous space for anyone below -5.0 sec status. I don't sit in station in high sec because the undock is full of players who can attack me legally and that is tacked onto the faction police who will also attack me, a high sec undock is one of the worst places in the game I can be. Simply being undocked in high sec my ship will be attacked and destroyed by the faction police. Any gate jumps I have to make between low sec and the target system you can be tackled by faction police or players and so sometimes you don't make it. None of this is me complaining it's simply a statement of fact.

If you leave high sec to go to low, null or K space the process of getting ganked is pretty much the same as in high sec, it's just that in high sec you tend to be more complacent and don't do what is needed to stay safe. CONCORD however, is no different than the police IRL, they don't provide protection they provide punishment.

So as for you wanting high sec to be a dangerous place for criminals, well...it is. Don't try to lump all players regardless of what factor they have in common into the same pool either. Reality always seems to have an infinite capacity to resist oversimplification. If you believe these people are trash at the game, go to their home systems and show them how it's done, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. It's not like a locator agent costs much to teach them a lesson right?

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#223 - 2014-06-17 11:11:42 UTC
Azure Rayl wrote:
The problem isn't ganking per se, it's the lack of mechanics to combat ganking. Most gankers buy tags to keep there sec status high enough to not be targeted by concord (a very poor mechanic, sec status loss means nothing to them). We know who the gankers are, we know when they are scanning for a target yet we cant touch them until the crime is dealt and done (unless you want to activate that 1 billion isk killright or gank and lose you ship in the process) i mean the lack of tools to combat them is crazy, it's no wonder why they do it :(

edit: To clarify im not talking about defending against gankers (that is pretty easy) :P im talking about viable ways to offend known gankers before they actually gank :D


Wrong. You have plenty of tools to fight gankers, you just need to start using them. Others in this topic have thoroughly explained how to deal with ganking.
412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#224 - 2014-06-17 11:12:35 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Conference Elite is making a bid to steal the grrr away from Goons. What a bunch of showboaters. Smile

(I personally think they're an alt of Erotica [some number]. who is an alt of James 315. Proof: deductive/intuitive reasoning. And reading slug and/or snail trail patterns).

Edit: I edited this post after I'd gotten a Like. My apologies, feel free to Unlike.


I was the one who liked, still kept the like, if we get more hated than goons, does that mean we win eve?

A True Champion of High Security Space

Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#225 - 2014-06-17 11:12:38 UTC
Azure Rayl wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Azure Rayl wrote:
The problem isn't ganking per se, it's the lack of mechanics to combat ganking. Most gankers buy tags to keep there sec status high enough to not be targeted by concord (a very poor mechanic, sec status loss means nothing to them). We know who the gankers are, we know when they are scanning for a target yet we cant touch them until the crime is dealt and done (unless you want to activate that 1 billion isk killright or gank and lose you ship in the process) i mean the lack of tools to combat them is crazy, it's no wonder why they do it :(


The are a lot of tools you can use to defend yourself. People are simply chosing to not use them.


To clarify im not talking about defending against gankers (that is pretty easy) :P im talking about viable ways to offend known gankers before they actually gank :D


You could gank them. Duh.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#226 - 2014-06-17 11:24:14 UTC
Azure Rayl wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Azure Rayl wrote:
The problem isn't ganking per se, it's the lack of mechanics to combat ganking. Most gankers buy tags to keep there sec status high enough to not be targeted by concord (a very poor mechanic, sec status loss means nothing to them). We know who the gankers are, we know when they are scanning for a target yet we cant touch them until the crime is dealt and done (unless you want to activate that 1 billion isk killright or gank and lose you ship in the process) i mean the lack of tools to combat them is crazy, it's no wonder why they do it :(


The are a lot of tools you can use to defend yourself. People are simply chosing to not use them.


To clarify im not talking about defending against gankers (that is pretty easy) :P im talking about viable ways to offend known gankers before they actually gank :D


You do know this game has guns, right? Just shoot the ****ers.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Sykaotic
Doomheim
#227 - 2014-06-17 11:33:34 UTC
There is actually a new order of content creators who fly around in empty ships whose sole goal is to get ganked.

It's a win win situation with both sides of these content creators.

Personally, I like to just sit and watch.... I find it highly intriguing and extremely intelligent + I can watch old re runs of Rosanne at the same time.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2014-06-17 11:39:11 UTC
Sykaotic wrote:
There is actually a new order of content creators who fly around in empty ships whose sole goal is to get ganked.

It's a win win situation with both sides of these content creators.

Personally, I like to just sit and watch.... I find it highly intriguing and extremely intelligent + I can watch old re runs of Rosanne at the same time.
You could also finish shaving your head while you're at it.

Or is that a helmet?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#229 - 2014-06-17 11:41:08 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Sykaotic wrote:
There is actually a new order of content creators who fly around in empty ships whose sole goal is to get ganked.

It's a win win situation with both sides of these content creators.

Personally, I like to just sit and watch.... I find it highly intriguing and extremely intelligent + I can watch old re runs of Rosanne at the same time.
You could also finish shaving your head while you're at it.

Or is that a helmet?


Its an ariel to channel his indignant impotent rage at people he doesn't agree with

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#230 - 2014-06-17 11:42:52 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


We dont bother with sec tags. Even when open to pvp from everyone people wont attack us.


What about when the faction cops take an interest? Do you just rat for sec the old fashioned way?


More or less. We own the testigram so ratting staus back up isnt too much of a drama but we only bother doi g that if we a running some kind of operation for the CFC.
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#231 - 2014-06-17 11:43:11 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Sykaotic wrote:
There is actually a new order of content creators who fly around in empty ships whose sole goal is to get ganked.

It's a win win situation with both sides of these content creators.

Personally, I like to just sit and watch.... I find it highly intriguing and extremely intelligent + I can watch old re runs of Rosanne at the same time.
You could also finish shaving your head while you're at it.

Or is that a helmet?


Its an ariel to channel his indignant impotent rage at people he doesn't agree with


Whatever happened to the good 'ol days of just throwing paint on people?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Solecist Project
#232 - 2014-06-17 11:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Azure Rayl wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Azure Rayl wrote:
The problem isn't ganking per se, it's the lack of mechanics to combat ganking. Most gankers buy tags to keep there sec status high enough to not be targeted by concord (a very poor mechanic, sec status loss means nothing to them). We know who the gankers are, we know when they are scanning for a target yet we cant touch them until the crime is dealt and done (unless you want to activate that 1 billion isk killright or gank and lose you ship in the process) i mean the lack of tools to combat them is crazy, it's no wonder why they do it :(


The are a lot of tools you can use to defend yourself. People are simply chosing to not use them.


To clarify im not talking about defending against gankers (that is pretty easy) :P im talking about viable ways to offend known gankers before they actually gank :D


You do know this game has guns, right? Just shoot the ****ers.

How? They hide in station all the time, until they strike.
When they strike, it's too late.

There's nothing one can do against these lesser people,
as long as they can hide from everybody.

And I believe that's the whole point of the issue. The fact that they can hide
and the public perception created through their cowardice and/or lazyness.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
#233 - 2014-06-17 11:45:00 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

How? They hide in station all the time, until they strike.
When they strike, it's too late.

There's nothing one can do against these lesser people,
as long as they can hide from everybody.


So how do they get from where they're hiding, passed you, to where they strike, if you're such a superior person?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#234 - 2014-06-17 11:45:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


We dont bother with sec tags. Even when open to pvp from everyone people wont attack us.


What about when the faction cops take an interest? Do you just rat for sec the old fashioned way?


More or less. We own the testigram so ratting staus back up isnt too much of a drama but we only bother doi g that if we a running some kind of operation for the CFC.


Oh ok cool

Was just wondering as Im sponsoring some new blood and they are crying to me that tags are too expensive for their little wallets

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Solecist Project
#235 - 2014-06-17 11:50:57 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

How? They hide in station all the time, until they strike.
When they strike, it's too late.

There's nothing one can do against these lesser people,
as long as they can hide from everybody.


So how do they get from where they're hiding, passed you, to where they strike, if you're such a superior person?

What kind of comment is that?

Instaundock.
Warp to target.
Strike.
Dock.


If you don't quite get it, try to visualize it and tell me how it's possible to know where they go,
and how it's possible to be there before them. Even if that was doable, it'd still not help at all.


Any scenario people have come up with so far are completely disconnected from ingame reality.

Can you do better?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#236 - 2014-06-17 11:56:26 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

How? They hide in station all the time, until they strike.


Of course they do. They have to, since the faction police are a thing.

Quote:

When they strike, it's too late.


Which does not absolve anyone of responsibility in failing to defend themselves.


Quote:

There's nothing one can do against these lesser people,
as long as they can hide from everybody.
And I believe that's the whole point of the issue. The fact that they can hide
and the public perception created through their cowardice and/or lazyness.


Then advocate the removal of faction police, simple as that.

With very few exceptions(the only one I know of is faction warfare trade hub camping), they HAVE to hide in station. It's not just the smart move, it's the only not-stupid move. They aren't really able to do anything else thanks to repeated punitive mechanics leveled at them at the behest of carebears over the years.

But since it was carebears themselves who caused this situation, if they're crying about it now, then I shall laugh in their faces. They cry about fairness, when the current unfair situation is entirely of their making. To put it more simply, they made their bed. If they don't like how it looks, they should have put some forethought into it in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#237 - 2014-06-17 11:59:51 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

How? They hide in station all the time, until they strike.
When they strike, it's too late.

There's nothing one can do against these lesser people,
as long as they can hide from everybody.


So how do they get from where they're hiding, passed you, to where they strike, if you're such a superior person?

What kind of comment is that?

Instaundock.
Warp to target.
Strike.
Dock.


If you don't quite get it, try to visualize it and tell me how it's possible to know where they go,
and how it's possible to be there before them. Even if that was doable, it'd still not help at all.


Any scenario people have come up with so far are completely disconnected from ingame reality.

Can you do better?


We are going to a gate, there are two to pick from, our target freighter can be identified as the one being bumped by nano battleships.
Solecist Project
#238 - 2014-06-17 11:59:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

How? They hide in station all the time, until they strike.


Of course they do. They have to, since the faction police are a thing.


No, they don't have to. I don't have to either.
Nobody has to. That's the point.

What they do, though, is spread the false belief that one has to.
That they are too tough. That they can't be handled.
It's all bullshit.

The argument is fake.

If you don't believe me, then I can show you.
Any day. In any highsec system of your choice.
(just let it be a close one because I don't want to travel 50 jumps there and back, you know :p)

Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser up to 1.0
Battlecruiser up to 0.8
Battleship in 0.5, maybe 0.6. Not sure about 0.7.


Well ... okay, I can't fly battleships, so scratch that. lol


Removal of faction police would make it even EASIER than it is already
and I will never ever speak for this, because it's dumbing down the game!

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Lady Areola Fappington
#239 - 2014-06-17 12:00:27 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

What kind of comment is that?

Instaundock.
Warp to target.
Strike.
Dock.


If you don't quite get it, try to visualize it and tell me how it's possible to know where they go,
and how it's possible to be there before them. Even if that was doable, it'd still not help at all.


Any scenario people have come up with so far are completely disconnected from ingame reality.

Can you do better?



Couple of techniques I've seen used, to good effect. Grab a good combat scanner, drop probes right outside the station being used as a rally point. First time the gankers roll out, scan the undock insta down. Second time they undock, be waiting at the compromised undock with a sebo/rseboed ship loaded to the gills with points. With outlaws, you don't actually have to shoot, just get a point on target and let facpo do the rest.

I've also seen sebo/rsebo'ed ships sitting on gates, with boosted longpoints. As long as they can cover a decent chunk of the sphere you decloak in, you can snag a ganker or two as they decloak and try to warp to target. Warpscram em, let Facpo do the dirty work.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#240 - 2014-06-17 12:02:01 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Then advocate the removal of faction police, simple as that.

With very few exceptions(the only one I know of is faction warfare trade hub camping), they HAVE to hide in station. It's not just the smart move, it's the only not-stupid move. They aren't really able to do anything else thanks to repeated punitive mechanics leveled at them at the behest of carebears over the years.

But since it was carebears themselves who caused this situation, if they're crying about it now, then I shall laugh in their faces. They cry about fairness, when the current unfair situation is entirely of their making. To put it more simply, they made their bed. If they don't like how it looks, they should have put some forethought into it in the first place.


It is an odd world that has been created

One where its safer for targets to fit cloaks and go to safespots and AFK cloak than dock up

And where kick-murder squads dash about for 15 minutes until they are "safe" enough to dock up to resupply, or risk it for a biscuit and crash the station anyway

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann