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[Kronos] Medium Micro Jump Drives

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#441 - 2014-05-19 11:47:31 UTC
Wrathful Penguins wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
bcs don't need MJDs.

fixed

Well considering I've also been saying that...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Wrathful Penguins
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#442 - 2014-05-19 11:49:33 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Wrathful Penguins wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
bcs don't need MJDs.

fixed

Well considering I've also been saying that...

<3
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#443 - 2014-05-19 11:50:18 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


so kind of like when kiting ships fill up on speed mods so they can engage without ever actually committing


My current kiting ship is a plated deimos. Yesterday I fought a gang of arazu, loki, scimitar, 2 sabres, stabber, stiletto, nidhoggur, thanatos. I drew the stabber out from rep range and killed it. You dont need speed mods to skirmish, just good piloting.


and bad enemies
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#444 - 2014-05-19 11:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


so kind of like when kiting ships fill up on speed mods so they can engage without ever actually committing


My current kiting ship is a plated deimos. Yesterday I fought a gang of arazu, loki, scimitar, 2 sabres, stabber, stiletto, nidhoggur, thanatos. I drew the stabber out from rep range and killed it. You dont need speed mods to skirmish, just good piloting.


and bad enemies


All pvp is based on either being better than, or more numerous than your enemies.

Edit: Im also not sure where all your complaints about kiters and bad enemies are coming from. Of your last 5 losses, 3 are kiters and 2 are ships with no point (ie, can only kill bad people)
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#445 - 2014-05-19 11:57:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Wrathful Penguins wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Wrathful Penguins wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Wrathful Penguins wrote:
You're not getting this. Right now 2 guys with cruisers and a lot of pilot skill can fight a half dozen larger ships as long as they are good at mitigating damage. I'm not saying the cruisers longpoint and call in help, I'm saying they longpoint and then kill them because where the larger ships opted for more tank and more dps the cruisers picked less dps, less tank, more speed and more projection. They picked fits which had significant tradeoffs but were rewarding if they had piloting skill and as such were able to win in spots where they shouldn't due to exploiting that piloting skill.

If warp disruptors don't lock down ships then you are forced to scram and brawl to get a kill and if you are forced to brawl then you are forced to just have more dudes in bigger ships. Right now you are not, fewer dudes can beat more dudes with piloting skill. It's not an issue of "well you can still lock them down while your blob gets there". We don't all have blobs.


It not only destroys the warp disruptor as a module but also any kind of agility/piloting skill based pvp because you can't guarantee a kill without being in their scram range. It's a huge, huge attack on a very popular style of pvp. People who try and win through manually piloting will not be able to attack half the things they currently can if they have to lock horns with a f1 brawl monkey in a brick scram ship to get a kill. It destroys their engagement profile.


Give all cruisers a massive speed boost and overall buff and no one cares, nerf BC speed and give them a option to be able to deal with kiters and suddenly everyone goes crazy. Like you, with your hyperbole hilarious nonsense.

I absolutely agree that bcs are in a terrible place compared to cruisers right now, cruisers are ridiculously quicker than they were and generally have projection/application bonuses which the bcs lack. I just don't see how giving bcs the ability to escape from infinite longpoints if you refuse to brawl them is a solution to their problems. It's a much bigger issue of ship stats and bonuses and a gimmick that makes them unkillable except through brawling solves absolutely nothing.

The power creep infecting eve has made cruisers incredibly dumb and if they were toned down or bcs moved up in line with them that'd be awesome. I don't think cruisers are in a good place right now, their dps is only slightly lower than bcs, they have better bonuses and they have way better base stats. But MMJDs are not the answer to any part of that problem.


No, your whine is how your kiting backbone is "in danger" because you might miss some poor sod in a BC, using all kinds of hyperbole and dumb logic. Your "nonono, I'm in this for the good of the game" is very obvious.

Of course I'm posting because the game I play is changing for the worse. The game some f1 brawl monkey might be changing for the better if every fight is scrams on both ships and calling in his blob because then he won't die to the likes of me because I don't fly with a blob. For him everything being blob vs blob might be an improvement, he might be part of the biggest blob, for me it's certainly not because I don't care for that.

I'm not sure why you think identifying that I am trying to preserve my style of gameplay when it is under a very serious attack in any way discredits the issues with this module. I don't deny that I use warp disruptors, nor that I'd like to keep them relevant. My point is just that this change makes them far less relevant and I don't think that is a good direction.


Jezus ******* Christ, how much hyperbole can one possible cram in one's posts. ONE ship type (that's currently not at all used too much because it's too slow, and has been nerfed while other ship types got buffed) gets MJD and suddenly all doom and gloom. Again, you're just whining that you might actually have to bring scrams with your kiting gangs, nothing more, nothing less.

Do you REALLY think that suddenly the skies will be full of MJD BCs, LOLing all over the place? They're STILL slow to warp, they're STILL too slow to catch anything. MJD is a defensive buff and a "come and fight me" module.


p.s. just because you found the orbit and keep at range buttons doesn't mean you're somehow more intelligent than others, your posting isn't helping either.
Wrathful Penguins
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#446 - 2014-05-19 11:57:08 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


so kind of like when kiting ships fill up on speed mods so they can engage without ever actually committing


My current kiting ship is a plated deimos. Yesterday I fought a gang of arazu, loki, scimitar, 2 sabres, stabber, stiletto, nidhoggur, thanatos. I drew the stabber out from rep range and killed it. You dont need speed mods to skirmish, just good piloting.


and bad enemies


All pvp is based on either being better than, or more numerous than your enemies.

Fozzie'd that for you. Enjoy your new emergent gameplay.
Johann Rascali
The Milkmen
Churn and Burn
#447 - 2014-05-19 12:00:48 UTC
I know this is absolute madness, but you could slap an AB on a scram Enyo to bricktackle a MMJDBC while also heaving a decent amount of DPS at it.

Blanking signatures doesn't seem to work, so this is here.
Wrathful Penguins
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#448 - 2014-05-19 12:01:39 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:

Again, you're just whining that you might actually have to bring scrams with your kiting gangs, nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, because a) I don't fly gangs, I predominantly solo and b) scramming things in my kiting solo is somewhat problematic

I honestly don't think you're understanding the issue here. You're identifying it when you post things like "have to bring scrams" but then you're not somehow putting the word scram with the word kiting and working out why people like myself think this isn't a good development.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#449 - 2014-05-19 12:02:00 UTC
Wrathful Penguins wrote:
afkalt wrote:


Holy crap I wasn't serious. A STAB? Ho ho ho.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that there is no trade for a MMJD - they need to be fitted SOMEWHERE, they have steepish fitting requirements. There are trade offs.


Ho ho, stab. Still chuckling on that one.

I still contend that asking a brawler to fit a warp core stab to survive being kited is 10x more reasonable than asking a kiter to fit a scram to get a kill. A brawler can still brawl with a single stab, a kiter cannot kite in scram range.


So let's say for the sakes of argument it is reasonable - what is the effective difference between that, and a MMJD for the solo pilot? It's still a fitting trade, it's not a guaranteed escape.

For small gang work - dedicate someone quick to carry a scram. Remember You don't NEED to fight in scram range all the time, so long as you can get there for the spool up time. The animation is a massive tell.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#450 - 2014-05-19 12:05:03 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Wrathful Penguins wrote:
afkalt wrote:


Holy crap I wasn't serious. A STAB? Ho ho ho.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that there is no trade for a MMJD - they need to be fitted SOMEWHERE, they have steepish fitting requirements. There are trade offs.


Ho ho, stab. Still chuckling on that one.

I still contend that asking a brawler to fit a warp core stab to survive being kited is 10x more reasonable than asking a kiter to fit a scram to get a kill. A brawler can still brawl with a single stab, a kiter cannot kite in scram range.


So let's say for the sakes of argument it is reasonable - what is the effective difference between that, and a MMJD for the solo pilot? It's still a fitting trade, it's not a guaranteed escape.

For small gang work - dedicate someone quick to carry a scram. Remember You don't NEED to fight in scram range all the time, so long as you can get there for the spool up time. The animation is a massive tell.


yeah but then that person would actually be at risk of dying, which isn't fair apparently
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#451 - 2014-05-19 12:06:24 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone! We've happy to announce that in the Kronos release we will be introducing a new medium version of the Micro Jump Drive!

This module will begin restricted to Battlecruisers, Command Ships and Deep Space Transports. We will consider expanding it to some other classes in the future but that is a discussion for after we've seen how they work out on these initial groups.

The MMJD uses the same Micro Jump Drive Operation skill as the LMJD and has the same range (100km), spool up (12s base reduced by the skill) and cooldown (3 minutes) as the Large version.

It has the following requirements:
Powergrid: 165
CPU: 51
Capacitor: 197

We expect that these modules will be a very exciting option for battlecruisers (especially attack battlecruisers) in both fleets and small gangs.

Battlecruisers have been a little overshadowed by battleships and cruisers in recent months and having the option to use MJDs combined with their dps and low cost should create some interesting chances for clever players to show off their abilities.

These modules will be on SISI for your testing pleasure soon. Let us know what you think!


Why don't you just make every ship in the game interdiction nullifed already?

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#452 - 2014-05-19 12:06:42 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:


yeah but then that person would actually be at risk of dying, which isn't fair apparently


You personally lose kiting ships all the time, why do you think kiting ships dont die?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#453 - 2014-05-19 12:07:32 UTC
Johann Rascali wrote:
I know this is absolute madness, but you could slap an AB on a scram Enyo to bricktackle a MMJDBC while also heaving a decent amount of DPS at it.



issue is. Only some ships are fast enough to go 25 km from one side of gate jump ito scram rnge to tackle a MDJ ship before it gets out. THese ships usually are too weak to fight a Battleship or BC. or they are a T3.

That funnels the small scale PVP even more into T3.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#454 - 2014-05-19 12:12:55 UTC
i do agree with the people saying bc's don't need this mod .... i think they are generally in a good place the reduced usage is a good thing Fozzie... more diversity is what we like ...that being said part of the problem in the combat bc area is that a lot of the ships are too samey... ABC's inhibit there potential somewhat and force them into being brawlers only..

make ABC's T2 - they are specialist ships and should be treated as such..

then 1/2 of the CBC's could be moved to attack bc's - this would open up options for more variety and mobility..

New Attack bc's
drake - drop resist,less tank for missile velocity, buff mobility .. kind of like the navy version really..
Hurricane - more mobility, less tank
Harbinger - more mobility, less tank
Brutix - more mobility, less tank, maybe switch rep bonus for falloff bonus.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#455 - 2014-05-19 12:18:47 UTC
Wrathful Penguins wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:

Again, you're just whining that you might actually have to bring scrams with your kiting gangs, nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, because a) I don't fly gangs, I predominantly solo and b) scramming things in my kiting solo is somewhat problematic

I honestly don't think you're understanding the issue here. You're identifying it when you post things like "have to bring scrams" but then you're not somehow putting the word scram with the word kiting and working out why people like myself think this isn't a good development.


I understand it just fine, you're using one strategy which makes you feel superior (which isn't that difficult given the average quality of players, don't kid yourself) and now you're scared shitless about how you might not be able to kill a BC you ran in to, because he might actually get away from you (gasp). And this is of course not allowed, your superior strategy (...) should always hold the advantage and nothing is allowed to get away from it and anything that tries to anyway is dumb and F1 pushing.

To frantically try and prevent this change from happening you start to make hilarious hyperbole strawman posts (which don't make you look that intelligent, just saying) because you feel threatened by this disturbing change.

Did I miss anything?
Kane Fenris
NWP
#456 - 2014-05-19 12:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kane Fenris
Attackbcs already killed most uses of combat bcs now they get a buff again?
bs got an edge over attack bcs when they got mjds and now lost tbis edge?
wtf is wrong with you at ccp you bring a op ship in the game that steps o toes of two other ship classes. then you struggle to fix it and when its nearly fi ed you break it again fully as aware of what your doing?

cant belive it
Wrathful Penguins
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#457 - 2014-05-19 12:22:59 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Wrathful Penguins wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:

Again, you're just whining that you might actually have to bring scrams with your kiting gangs, nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, because a) I don't fly gangs, I predominantly solo and b) scramming things in my kiting solo is somewhat problematic

I honestly don't think you're understanding the issue here. You're identifying it when you post things like "have to bring scrams" but then you're not somehow putting the word scram with the word kiting and working out why people like myself think this isn't a good development.


I understand it just fine, you're using one strategy which makes you feel superior (which isn't that difficult given the average quality of players, don't kid yourself) and now you're scared shitless about how you might not be able to kill a BC you ran in to, because he might actually get away from you (gasp). And this is of course not allowed, your superior strategy (...) should always hold the advantage and nothing is allowed to get away from it and anything that tries to anyway is dumb and F1 pushing.

To frantically try and prevent this change from happening you start to make hilarious hyperbole strawman posts (which don't make you look that intelligent, just saying) because you feel threatened by this disturbing change.

Did I miss anything?

The point?

Fortunately for you the point is no longer going to be important.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#458 - 2014-05-19 12:24:02 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


yeah but then that person would actually be at risk of dying, which isn't fair apparently


You personally lose kiting ships all the time, why do you think kiting ships dont die?


I think my 'kiting' ships have all died in brawler mode recently.
to your question, because typically they're taking win or draw engagements. I see a similarity between flying a kiting ship with its inherently laughable damage and tank, and flying a lol brawling CBC and gimping yourself to get a MJD on, to get a (less reliable) gtfo ability for use in honourable pvp.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#459 - 2014-05-19 12:24:46 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Johann Rascali wrote:
I know this is absolute madness, but you could slap an AB on a scram Enyo to bricktackle a MMJDBC while also heaving a decent amount of DPS at it.



issue is. Only some ships are fast enough to go 25 km from one side of gate jump ito scram rnge to tackle a MDJ ship before it gets out. THese ships usually are too weak to fight a Battleship or BC. or they are a T3.

That funnels the small scale PVP even more into T3.



I posted that a caracal before that can do it no problems and would almost certainly survive long enough for the slower ships to get into range.

35k EHP, 2117 m/s

Sure, it won't kill it alone, but it's there for tackle.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#460 - 2014-05-19 12:26:19 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


yeah but then that person would actually be at risk of dying, which isn't fair apparently


You personally lose kiting ships all the time, why do you think kiting ships dont die?


I think my 'kiting' ships have all died in brawler mode recently.
to your question, because typically they're taking win or draw engagements. I see a similarity between flying a kiting ship with its inherently laughable damage and tank, and flying a lol brawling CBC and gimping yourself to get a MJD on, to get a (less reliable) gtfo ability for use in honourable pvp.


In what way does an arty firetail or beam executioner have a brawling mode?