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Refining skills are RELEVANT only in one situation: null sec, everywhere else u r better off refining at a POS.

regarding POS anchor it takes minimal skills, efforts and iskies. U buy ur self a corp with high standing (last time I did it it was 150 mil) slap an alt or two in there, teach them anchoring III and add the corp to ur alliance!!

Voila it s done all ur alliance and corps can now use a 75.1% refining array with no hassle!
No trouble with standings or missioning

Total cost 150+ 100 or so for a small pos with its array, a medium or large would cost u more
With 250-300 mil u r set

It s cheaper than getting a 4% implant :o

Btw: I m no coder but instead of the POS checking ur skills exactly, it could do a yes/no check if u r maxed on refining skills . If so the array gives u a plus 5 or 10% refining yield.
Or maybe make two different refine lines in the array (similar to the assembly array) one can be used by all, the other can be used by max skilled char. And this kind of coding is already in the game for POS arrays (ship assembly and such)

Cheers

And the problem with selling ore is...?

I would imagine the loss in income potential for those mining would be the biggest problem.



Aside from totally missing the point, if that is the best you can come up with as a CSM, PLEASE don't run again.
If trail accounts don't sub because the 1st month is horrible, that is money CCP has lost and regardless of whether 'you' and the next guy plex your accounts or pay with a credit card CCP has still lost that income.
For those starting a new account (1st time players) post summer patch, things will not be any different because they were not playing at the time 2 rookie income sources were nerfed. For those who are now playing it may have a big impact on whether they continue to play/pay for Eve.
With 2 rookie income sources nerfed the 1st few months will be even harder for new players. (not everyone has a credit card to throw at the "BuyPlexNow" window)

Not to mention the income loss for many mission runners, I have a toon who runs lvl 4 missions for LP (implants) but have always looted and salvaged those missions for the additional income. The changes to refining and scrap reprocessing have essentially nerfed my mission income. Take away the income I use to buy ships for pvp, you are essentially taking away my reason for playing eve.

And really - there is more to eve, than nulblob no risk (thank you srp) Pvp

They're not taking away your income earning potential though. Looting your missions instead of blitzing through them earns you less money even today. So if after the change you go do another mission, instead of wasting time looting and salvaging, your income level will increase. The only way for it to decrease with this change is for you to intentionally choose to continue run your missions inefficiently. You can do that if that's the way you like to play the game, but then you're doing it for enjoyment and not mainly as an income to fund other activities, so it shouldn't matter much anyway.

I'm not telling you to like the change, but in the overall scheme of gameplay effects created by this change your complaint carries little to no weight. No activity is taken away from you and just a slight alteration in the way you do the same activity will only increase your income.

The majority of mission runners i know use Pro Synergy for this as they can blitz missions and we come along an clean it up and they get 45% of the value without having to do anything, however with this change the salvagers and in-turn mission runners will lose 30-40% profit from that and it will not be worth the time.
On a separate note i personally upgraded from a trial account to a full paid account because i found Pro Synergy a salvaging corp that i can make decent income as a low skill point character and i can help a veteran who is more interested in just shooting things faster, with the change we get put out of a profession and im basically back to square one not being able to make much income and the way it is currently looking quitting since i cant make enough isk to PLEX my account.

Mission blitzing should be removed from the game.

It is understandable that an enemy fleet falls apart and can be considered beaten after the commander died, but that the commander is always the same ship, appears always at the same time and always does the same is way too static and way too exploitable with said blitzing. Same goes for missions with structures: if you only need to shoot one petty, weak structure in a mission, what's the point of it? If it's a POSish object or a station, it shouldn't be possible to alpha it of the field with a carrier and warp out again. That's way too easy. Missions need to be more dynamic and in general are in dire need of an replacement with a new, more modern system for PVE content generation.

I'm happy with the changes. CCP +1
We need more changes to the industry.

Market will adapt, players will adapt.
Everything will be ok :-)

Rookies, miners and rookie miners will be ok too.

I'm a bit surprised by some of the comments in this thread relating to running missions.

The first one is the claim that mission running in HiSec can earn you around 100M ISK/hr. From my fairly exhaustive experience running mission, I would say this figure is hard to achieve in any kind of sustained fashion, and I would dearly like to know the details on how you do this.

The second claim I would like to question, is that blitzing is the most profitable method to maximize your earnings per hour.

To wit, I have tried to optimize my mission running pretty much as far as I am able. I use 3 different Marauders for various missions (Golem, Paladin and Vargur), blitz many missions in an Interceptor, or in one case a shield extended Stabber for Recon 3/3.

The issue I see is that no matter how I go about trying to increase my earnings, I tend to max. out at around 50M ISK/hr. We may quibble about the exact figure, and whether the time I spend on my trading alts should be considered. But it is nowhere the purported 100M ISK/hr some contributors to this thread claims is possible in HiSec.

The reason for this ceiling is quite simple: As you increase the fraction of the missions you blitz, the average agent payout in LP for those missions plummets in proportion. For instance at one of my mission hubs Recon 3/3 currently pays less than 1000 LP, and that is with Security Connections V. Similarly all versions of level 4 Cargo Delivery, easily blitzed in an Inty, gives a pitiful payout. This proportional decline in payout appear to be similar between mission hubs, and is exasperated by decline spam (which is possible when you have high faction standings).

From my observations your payout is maximized by killing *some* - yet certainly not a majority - of all missions, and blitzing the rest. For instance using a marauder I can nuke, loot and salvage Gone Beserk in a bit more than 10 minutes. It is IMO an economic mistake not to do so, given the (current) value of the loot, all bounties and the LP rewarded.

In one of my mission hubs I have a station container currently containing about 1.5 B ISK worth of 'junk' loot, collected over about 2 months worth of casual mission running. This figure is with the loot cherry picked for expensive meta 4 items, salvage and NPC tags. The 1.5B figure is then the rough 'melt' value, which is about to take a nosedive.

I also note in passing, that the mineral prices on TQ has been either flat or increased since the buffed marauders and the MTUs were released in the latest expansion. The one exception appear to be Morphite, which had decreased a bit in price over the last few moths, seemingly not correlated in time to the expansion. So at first glance it would appear that gun mining of NPCs currently isn't a major contributor to the amount of minerals entering the market on TQ. Either that, or most people running missions aren't using marauders and/or MTUs.

tl;dr: We may debate whether the refining changes are good or bad for EVE as a whole, but these proposed changes *will* be a nerf to my mission running payout, deliberate or otherwise. I will need to do some exhaustive statistics before I can make claims to exactly how much.

But if you aren't currently looting at least some missions, then you are doing it wrong IMHO. This is true even after the last few rounds of nerfs to the profitability of mission loot (reduced prices on salvage due to changes to exploration, removal of meta 0 items from the NPC loot tables).

Some of the complaints being brought up in this thread arise from a dangerous degree of solipsism that seems to permeate the mind in the context of Eve. Self-sufficiency is a nice thing to strive for, but Eve is a multiplayer game. By breaking through your shell of isolation, you can realize greater profits by participating more closely with society.

If this sounds anathema to you, remember; all the things you are producing by yourself are worthless unless someone else pays for them. Ships, modules, ammo, LP, mission loot: all of it, without merit, until someone else agrees to purchase the yields of your usufruct.

Thank you for that. Very informative. It seems freighter pilots are going to be hauling a lot of ore and compressed ore around starting this summer.

So glad my alt is most of the way there now.