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[Serious Discussion] This game's community leaves much to be desired

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#121 - 2014-03-15 02:37:26 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I will never understand why people demand CCP change EVE entirely when games such as STO exist which offer exactly what they want.

Because we play EVE, its marketed as a sandbox game, it should be a sandbox game. The developers should be performing their required role as developers of a sandbox game which is to act as referee's. They are not. The game play is stagnant. The so-called emergent gameplay is ganking (been in game since M0o and Zombie), the PvP is largely still spawn point based (been in game since 2003), the sov warefare is themepark (theres only one way to do it), the ships are imbalanced to the extent one hull, class or module (supers, caps, blops, cyno's, cats, archons) are used to the exclusion of any emergent new methods / tactics.



So I see you pay no attention to what is going on.
Pain Killer13
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2014-03-15 02:43:21 UTC
Personally as someone new to the game, I do wonder why players try to "grief" other players out of the game. I mean don't they want the influx of new players?

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#123 - 2014-03-15 02:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Pain Killer13 wrote:
Personally as someone new to the game, I do wonder why players try to "grief" other players out of the game. I mean don't they want the influx of new players?



We don't.

There are some people who when killed automatically think they have being griefed. The truth is that they died because they did something stupid and this game punishes stupidity. They simply are not used to this.
Karon Grandolf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2014-03-15 02:47:51 UTC
EVE is changing all the time. These changes influence the balances between play styles and what is practically available experiences in the game. This in relation to established players as well as new ones.

I found Infinity Zionas post on the game experience in null very interesting as I have almost no personal experience of that. It seems to support that EVE is evolving in a way that limits the available gameplay. Even if the mechanics are there, the combined net result of players and game mechanics means that large parts of the possible experiences are not practically viable to engage in.

In short, EVE is becoming less of a game than what it could be. It is becoming more gamy, and less roleplaying and exploration friendly. Becoming less community oriented for non-combat players too.

The peaceful industrial high sec corporation is not viable as a lifestyle in EVE, not because it's not mechanically available, but because there are no mechanics to protect that lifestyle from other competing lifestyles in the game.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#125 - 2014-03-15 02:52:55 UTC
Karon Grandolf wrote:
EVE is changing all the time. These changes influence the balances between play styles and what is practically available experiences in the game. This in relation to established players as well as new ones.

I found Infinity Zionas post on the game experience in null very interesting as I have almost no personal experience of that. It seems to support that EVE is evolving in a way that limits the available gameplay. Even if the mechanics are there, the combined net result of players and game mechanics means that large parts of the possible experiences are not practically viable to engage in.

In short, EVE is becoming less of a game than what it could be. It is becoming more gamy, and less roleplaying and exploration friendly. Becoming less community oriented for non-combat players too.

The peaceful industrial high sec corporation is not viable as a lifestyle in EVE, not because it's not mechanically available, but because there are no mechanics to protect that lifestyle from other competing lifestyles in the game.


There are plenty of ways for an industrial corp to protect itself, its not CCPs fault many chose not to use them. I would also take any post infinity makes on null sec with a pinch of salt around the same size as the salt flats of Botswana.
Pain Killer13
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2014-03-15 02:54:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

We don't.

There are some people who when killed automatically think they have being griefed. The truth is that they died because they did something stupid and this game punishes stupidity. They simply are not used to this.


The amount of posts saying "can I have your stuff" leads me to believe otherwise. It's just another way of saying, quit and go cry about it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#127 - 2014-03-15 02:56:05 UTC
Pain Killer13 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

We don't.

There are some people who when killed automatically think they have being griefed. The truth is that they died because they did something stupid and this game punishes stupidity. They simply are not used to this.


The amount of posts saying "can I have your stuff" leads me to believe otherwise. It's just another way of saying, quit and go cry about it.


Its an EVE meme.

Generally posted when someone is ranting.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2014-03-15 02:59:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Karon Grandolf wrote:
EVE is changing all the time. These changes influence the balances between play styles and what is practically available experiences in the game. This in relation to established players as well as new ones.

I found Infinity Zionas post on the game experience in null very interesting as I have almost no personal experience of that. It seems to support that EVE is evolving in a way that limits the available gameplay. Even if the mechanics are there, the combined net result of players and game mechanics means that large parts of the possible experiences are not practically viable to engage in.

In short, EVE is becoming less of a game than what it could be. It is becoming more gamy, and less roleplaying and exploration friendly. Becoming less community oriented for non-combat players too.

The peaceful industrial high sec corporation is not viable as a lifestyle in EVE, not because it's not mechanically available, but because there are no mechanics to protect that lifestyle from other competing lifestyles in the game.


There are plenty of ways for an industrial corp to protect itself, its not CCPs fault many chose not to use them. I would also take any post infinity makes on null sec with a pinch of salt around the same size as the salt flats of Botswana.

Given Goons, a member of a coalition that has exploited the current state of null mechanics to almost have taken the entire conquerable map one would be wise not to put too much weight on a Goons comments regarding the state of null play.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Anslo
Scope Works
#129 - 2014-03-15 03:03:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Karon Grandolf wrote:
EVE is changing all the time. These changes influence the balances between play styles and what is practically available experiences in the game. This in relation to established players as well as new ones.

I found Infinity Zionas post on the game experience in null very interesting as I have almost no personal experience of that. It seems to support that EVE is evolving in a way that limits the available gameplay. Even if the mechanics are there, the combined net result of players and game mechanics means that large parts of the possible experiences are not practically viable to engage in.

In short, EVE is becoming less of a game than what it could be. It is becoming more gamy, and less roleplaying and exploration friendly. Becoming less community oriented for non-combat players too.

The peaceful industrial high sec corporation is not viable as a lifestyle in EVE, not because it's not mechanically available, but because there are no mechanics to protect that lifestyle from other competing lifestyles in the game.


There are plenty of ways for an industrial corp to protect itself, its not CCPs fault many chose not to use them. I would also take any post infinity makes on null sec with a pinch of salt around the same size as the salt flats of Botswana.


Meaning stop training industry and go train Pvp to fight back. In other words, play their way.

Hurr.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Karon Grandolf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2014-03-15 03:04:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Karon Grandolf wrote:
EVE is changing all the time. These changes influence the balances between play styles and what is practically available experiences in the game. This in relation to established players as well as new ones.

I found Infinity Zionas post on the game experience in null very interesting as I have almost no personal experience of that. It seems to support that EVE is evolving in a way that limits the available gameplay. Even if the mechanics are there, the combined net result of players and game mechanics means that large parts of the possible experiences are not practically viable to engage in.

In short, EVE is becoming less of a game than what it could be. It is becoming more gamy, and less roleplaying and exploration friendly. Becoming less community oriented for non-combat players too.

The peaceful industrial high sec corporation is not viable as a lifestyle in EVE, not because it's not mechanically available, but because there are no mechanics to protect that lifestyle from other competing lifestyles in the game.


There are plenty of ways for an industrial corp to protect itself, its not CCPs fault many chose not to use them. I would also take any post infinity makes on null sec with a pinch of salt around the same size as the salt flats of Botswana.


There are indeed several actions that can be taken as a reaction to a war. Most if not all of them involves dismantling the the lifestyle I was talking about, which is exactly the point.

This does not make them less fun if you were to embrace them, but it doesn't change that the lifestyle is very hard to maintain, compared to the high sec war deccing lifestyle of griefers and mercenaries.

The combat lifestyle can impose on the non-combat through wars, but the non-combat cannot impose on the combat by barring a corp from high sec for a week for instance. You can pay Concord to be passive, not active.

Not to say that it should be possible, but the balance favors the combat lifestyle.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#131 - 2014-03-15 03:08:44 UTC
Anslo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Karon Grandolf wrote:
EVE is changing all the time. These changes influence the balances between play styles and what is practically available experiences in the game. This in relation to established players as well as new ones.

I found Infinity Zionas post on the game experience in null very interesting as I have almost no personal experience of that. It seems to support that EVE is evolving in a way that limits the available gameplay. Even if the mechanics are there, the combined net result of players and game mechanics means that large parts of the possible experiences are not practically viable to engage in.

In short, EVE is becoming less of a game than what it could be. It is becoming more gamy, and less roleplaying and exploration friendly. Becoming less community oriented for non-combat players too.

The peaceful industrial high sec corporation is not viable as a lifestyle in EVE, not because it's not mechanically available, but because there are no mechanics to protect that lifestyle from other competing lifestyles in the game.


There are plenty of ways for an industrial corp to protect itself, its not CCPs fault many chose not to use them. I would also take any post infinity makes on null sec with a pinch of salt around the same size as the salt flats of Botswana.


Meaning stop training industry and go train Pvp to fight back. In other words, play their way.

Hurr.


Not so.

It's "stop holding your own head in the sand by pretending you can abdicate the ability to defend yourselves."

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#132 - 2014-03-15 03:11:27 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Given Goons, a member of a coalition that has exploited the current state of null mechanics to almost have taken the entire conquerable map one would be wise not to put too much weight on a Goons comments regarding the state of null play.


So he should ignore the people who have taken over half of null and can bring high sec to its knees on a whim but trust one pilot who has been shown to be wrong on almost everything they have said?

Yea, that makes sense...
Anslo
Scope Works
#133 - 2014-03-15 03:11:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Anslo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Karon Grandolf wrote:
EVE is changing all the time. These changes influence the balances between play styles and what is practically available experiences in the game. This in relation to established players as well as new ones.

I found Infinity Zionas post on the game experience in null very interesting as I have almost no personal experience of that. It seems to support that EVE is evolving in a way that limits the available gameplay. Even if the mechanics are there, the combined net result of players and game mechanics means that large parts of the possible experiences are not practically viable to engage in.

In short, EVE is becoming less of a game than what it could be. It is becoming more gamy, and less roleplaying and exploration friendly. Becoming less community oriented for non-combat players too.

The peaceful industrial high sec corporation is not viable as a lifestyle in EVE, not because it's not mechanically available, but because there are no mechanics to protect that lifestyle from other competing lifestyles in the game.


There are plenty of ways for an industrial corp to protect itself, its not CCPs fault many chose not to use them. I would also take any post infinity makes on null sec with a pinch of salt around the same size as the salt flats of Botswana.


Meaning stop training industry and go train Pvp to fight back. In other words, play their way.

Hurr.


Not so.

It's "stop holding your own head in the sand by pretending you can abdicate the ability to defend yourselves."


Is that your excuse for shooting fish in a barrel in highsec versus showing this loud mouthed pubbie consequences by blowing him up?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#134 - 2014-03-15 03:13:33 UTC
Karon Grandolf wrote:


There are indeed several actions that can be taken as a reaction to a war. Most if not all of them involves dismantling the the lifestyle I was talking about, which is exactly the point.

This does not make them less fun if you were to embrace them, but it doesn't change that the lifestyle is very hard to maintain, compared to the high sec war deccing lifestyle of griefers and mercenaries.

The combat lifestyle can impose on the non-combat through wars, but the non-combat cannot impose on the combat by barring a corp from high sec for a week for instance. You can pay Concord to be passive, not active.

Not to say that it should be possible, but the balance favors the combat lifestyle.


EVE is advertised are a dark and cruel game, why would you expect it to be anything else?

You are playing a combat game, treat it as such.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#135 - 2014-03-15 03:15:51 UTC
Anslo wrote:


Is that your excuse for shooting fish in a barrel in highsec versus showing this loud mouthed pubbie consequences by blowing him up?


Its only easy to kill people if they make it easy.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#136 - 2014-03-15 03:18:32 UTC
Anslo wrote:


Is that your excuse for shooting fish in a barrel in highsec versus showing this loud mouthed pubbie consequences by blowing him up?


I would be very interested to hear what your excuse is for explicitly refusing to fight someone without a fleet to back you up?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2014-03-15 03:20:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:


Is that your excuse for shooting fish in a barrel in highsec versus showing this loud mouthed pubbie consequences by blowing him up?


Its only easy to kill people if they make it easy.

No its only easy to kill people if you choose to make it easy... I could sit in a 0.5 and gank people all day. Could sit on a gate and gank people all day. Could make friends and gank those. Could fake recruit and gank those.

I don't do it because I'd rather play football than touch football, just like I'd rather play cruel harsh EvE than your version of easy safe EvE, Baltec.

I find the current trend of 98-100% kill efficiency an embarassment. I'd be embarassed to have that ratio.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Anslo
Scope Works
#138 - 2014-03-15 03:21:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Anslo wrote:


Is that your excuse for shooting fish in a barrel in highsec versus showing this loud mouthed pubbie consequences by blowing him up?


I would be very interested to hear what your excuse is for explicitly refusing to fight someone without a fleet to back you up?

Bring your own. You don't accommodate your victims, why should I accommodate you?

This pubbie built a fleet. Why can't you? The tools are there. Why do you whine instead of act?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#139 - 2014-03-15 03:21:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Karon Grandolf wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Karon Grandolf wrote:
EVE is changing all the time. These changes influence the balances between play styles and what is practically available experiences in the game. This in relation to established players as well as new ones.

I found Infinity Zionas post on the game experience in null very interesting as I have almost no personal experience of that. It seems to support that EVE is evolving in a way that limits the available gameplay. Even if the mechanics are there, the combined net result of players and game mechanics means that large parts of the possible experiences are not practically viable to engage in.

In short, EVE is becoming less of a game than what it could be. It is becoming more gamy, and less roleplaying and exploration friendly. Becoming less community oriented for non-combat players too.

The peaceful industrial high sec corporation is not viable as a lifestyle in EVE, not because it's not mechanically available, but because there are no mechanics to protect that lifestyle from other competing lifestyles in the game.


There are plenty of ways for an industrial corp to protect itself, its not CCPs fault many chose not to use them. I would also take any post infinity makes on null sec with a pinch of salt around the same size as the salt flats of Botswana.


There are indeed several actions that can be taken as a reaction to a war. Most if not all of them involves dismantling the the lifestyle I was talking about, which is exactly the point.

This does not make them less fun if you were to embrace them, but it doesn't change that the lifestyle is very hard to maintain, compared to the high sec war deccing lifestyle of griefers and mercenaries.

The combat lifestyle can impose on the non-combat through wars, but the non-combat cannot impose on the combat by barring a corp from high sec for a week for instance. You can pay Concord to be passive, not active.

Not to say that it should be possible, but the balance favors the combat lifestyle.

EVE has always, I repeat, ALWAYS favored the defender. It is simplicity itself to avoid combat.

Most people can't be arsed to learn how to do so, and refuse to learn how to continue their normal activities in the face of potential aggression. Denying this obvious fact puts one firmly in that camp.

Shall we also point out that not only is an element of danger a necessary part of the game, without it most "industrial focused" characters would quit out of sheer boredom in remarkably short order. Despite protests otherwise, EVE is a pretty boring mining / harvesting simulator... which is fine because that isn't its goal. It's goal is to provide a universe where you can pursue those interests IN A DANGEROUS AND CHALLENGING ENVIRONMENT.

Many players become quite adept at continuing their peaceful pursuits despite dangerous circumstances they find themselves in.

Others simply complain on the forums, attempting to change the core premise of the game to suit their limited ability to adapt to other players actions.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#140 - 2014-03-15 03:24:27 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

No its only easy to kill people if you choose to make it easy... I could sit in a 0.5 and gank people all day. Could sit on a gate and gank people all day. Could make friends and gank those. Could fake recruit and gank those.

I don't do it because I'd rather play football than touch football, just like I'd rather play cruel harsh EvE than your version of easy safe EvE, Baltec.

I find the current trend of 98-100% kill efficiency an embarassment. I'd be embarassed to have that ratio.


We don't care how we kill people if it makes us rich.

Point still stands, don't make it easy for us.