These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Serious Discussion] This game's community leaves much to be desired

First post First post
Author
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#101 - 2014-03-14 23:01:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Marvin Shields wrote:
Making my first post on the forums ever, so bear with me here...

Sure no problem.

Though I'm going to start with a question: Why are you insulting all players in this game in your thread title?

Sure, there are some folks making a fool of themselves, like The Mittani. There certainly are some players with a somewhat weird behaviour. But overall, my experience has been a completely different and rather positive one.

Ofc I have been ganked once. And ofc I've been ransomed. I even paid the ransom, having made sure before getting ransomed, that the guys doing this to me were likely going to honor it.

If you get ransomed without being prepared and do silly stuff as a victim, honestly, that's your problem. Just tell them to get done with it. If they don't pod you and still hold you for a prolonged time just because they can, now that would be something for a petition in harassment.

I've flown for a short time with some dudes that were part of events you mentioned. Great ingame experience in every respect, nice people to talk to on ts, folks that I'd have liked to meet in RL anytime. Although we probably would have been very different human beings that don't have much in common but EVE. And yet, who knows...

My experience is, that EVE has a good, mostly friendly and helpful community.

Sure, there are some assholes that are allowed to do their things. But you do not have to play their game.

Look at it like this: Blizzard created the dungeon and raid finder and eliminated most other game mechanics previously available to find a decent group, just to give those assholes a chance to play the game. The amount of complaints on the WoW forums shows, you cannot really evade them.

Remove standings and insurance.

Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2014-03-14 23:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mandarine
It only took six years!


Coffee Rocks wrote:
An entirely crazy notion - we play this game to have fun, and want the same for you.



They are not wired this way, they don´t have empathy. For them, EvE is a zero-sum game. They only have fun if their opponent has none. Hence the byzantine meta gameplay and the cheap shots they only revel in.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#103 - 2014-03-15 00:11:11 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The rules:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.


3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.


4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.


6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited.

Racism, gender stereotyping and hate speech are not permitted on the EVE Online Forums. Derogatory posting that includes race, religion or sexual preference based personal attacks and trolling can result in immediate suspension of forum posting privileges.


7. Use of profanity is prohibited.

The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter.


9. Posting of private CCP communication is prohibited.

The posting of private communication between the Game Masters, EVE Team members, Moderators, Administrators of the forums and forum users is prohibited. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including petition responses and emails) received from any of the aforementioned parties.


10. Discussion of warnings and bans is prohibited.

Such matters shall remain private between CCP and the involved user. Questions or comments concerning warnings and bans will be conveyed through email or private messaging. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including petition responses and emails) received from any of the aforementioned parties.


11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.

The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.


19. All posts must be related to EVE Online.

Posts regarding other companies and products or services are prohibited and any content of this nature will be removed. Posts regarding other games are however permitted on the Out of Pod Experience forum for the purposes of discussion only.


22. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.


26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.


30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.

CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, “outing” of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.



13 rules broken out of 34 rules total. 4 more and I would have posted the rules NOT broken..... Sad

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2014-03-15 00:21:12 UTC
It is a game for sure. If you wind up getting scammed, then all it means is that you lost that round. GG well played. The thing about EVE is that you will never hit rock bottom, because it is a game. You can lose everything but the one thing you will never be able to lose is that humble noob ship you started out with. You got that far starting with just a noob ship before, and you can do it again. Unless you got screwed over on an unprecedented level (like losing your character and all of the skill points with it) then it should be easier the second time around.

Got scammed out of your first 10 billion isk? No biggie! Sure it sucks, but chances are that now that you know what you're doing, you can make 20 billion isk in the same same time it took you to make 10 billion isk.

I wouldn't even say you actually lost something getting duped like that. Learning a lesson that can be valuable even in real life (don't be so gullible and trustworthy of strangers) is worth all the fictional money and even time in the world.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Zack Korth
United Caldari Navy
United Caldari Space Command.
#105 - 2014-03-15 00:40:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I can't believe no one liked my ****, I laughed typing it. Actually, a new(ish) player just gifted me 250 million yesterday for being helpful, he said I was a swell guy, I believe him too, I am swell. (have pics), also, I haven't killed anyone in a long time, no one's felt compelled to mess with me, I actually disagree with your initial * post, I changed my mind, you're wrong. The eve community helps to fulfill your internet spaceships desire,*Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#106 - 2014-03-15 00:47:27 UTC
I have removed a rule breaking post and the one quoting it.

The rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#107 - 2014-03-15 00:54:52 UTC
Marvin Shields wrote:
..I have in my very long Eve career seen some of the most venomous, most vindictive people in gaming. Bear in mind, I played Ultima Online back when it came out and for many years following that, and that was THE game that started the open-world community-driven content MMO genre. Eve may be more polished and may have a greater following and has lasted a HELL of a lot longer, but UO was where it allllll started kids..



Well I was around long before the internet, have never played any online game except EvE and in my 4 year experience i have to say it's a great way for the naive to learn harsh lessons without harsh injury.
It's pixels.
You want change, you make it with power. I think it was Timothy Leary who crunched the miles of sociological data to conclude that the person with the fewest tricks for interacting with others will have those tricks honed to a razor's edge and therefore dominate any encounter. A limited range of ways to interact with others is defines as sickness.
Short version: sickness rules.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Ralen Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2014-03-15 00:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralen Zateki
Edit: took the time to read it.

I get it. But... eh.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2014-03-15 01:10:51 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
I think most of the OP's complaints can be resolved in three steps...

Stay out of hisec
Stay off reddit
Stay off the internet

Seriously, if a few bad apples ruin your entire orchard, you've got to stop focusing on the bad apples.

Eve's community in low and nullsec is fantastic, encouraging and helpful. Trust is a way of life in nullsec. Fear is a way of life in hisec because that's where the riffraff truly are, preying on the weak that don't know the rules or don't know how to play the game yet.


Truth be told.

Majority of people in EVE are good and helpful. The bad always gets the news which makes it appear that Bad is actually the majority.


This guy.
Mr Kane destroys corps and is the terror of high sec. He murders whole fleets of carebears and drives them out of their corp and sometimes out of eve.
He is also a big softie. People that engage with him politely and honourably find him a valued friend. Corps that are being harrassed and he takes a liking to them find the corpses of their enemies laid in tribute at their doors. For causes that he likes he doesn't even charge.
This guy encapsulates eve. People with a poor attitude suffer and those with a good attitude prosper. Almost all the a-holes of eve are actually nice people furthering an agenda. Sometimes they disagree and become frenemies. People with a poor attitude however find it rebounds upon them and they lash out blaming everyone but themselves.
The experience you find in eve says a lot more about you than it does about the other eve players.
Welcome to the sandbox.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Karon Grandolf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2014-03-15 01:14:16 UTC
Calling for a cultural revolution within Eve is the right thing to do. If EVE is indeed real, then policing of players should be done by players themselves.

But EVE is no longer real. EVE is not real because EVE does not deliver the game mechanics that allows players to limit bad behavior in any meaningful way.

EVE seems to evolve in a direction where a class of older assholes grief and grind another class of new players that don't stay in the game for very long. But then again, that is hard to know, cause CCP doesn't seem to be willing to share the data on how wars affect subscriptions.

In another similar thread I asked C C P Manifest about this, but he denied my questions, simply ignored them.

I get the idea that CCP is akin scammers, luring new players using the excellent crafting, and promise of doing great things together with good people. What they are really doing is feeding the sharks.

The game mechanics is unbalanced, they do not allow for non-ship PVP'ers to combat the sharks, without becoming sharks themselves.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#111 - 2014-03-15 01:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Karon Grandolf wrote:

In another similar thread I asked C C P Manifest about this, but he denied my questions, simply ignored them.
Actually you asked CCP Manifest a question he'd already answered. If you read the post that you've linked he clearly says that as posted in his previous post, which he quoted for your convenience, CCP are seeing both new players and returning players, which suggests new accounts being opened and old ones being reactivated.

The difference between new accounts and new players is negligible, any new account is new business, regardless of whether it's a genuine newbie or from an existing customer.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#112 - 2014-03-15 01:31:04 UTC
To the OP:

You're suffering under the weight of misconceptions about how the game is played. I'll start with your examples.

Destiny. Lol, just wow. Given this guy's attitude and total inability to opsec anything(combined with his obnoxious fans), what did anyone expect would happen? Yeah, people pipebomb him, people hellcamp him. He's made himself unwelcome, and a big giant target at the same time, that's pretty much the community policing itself.

Daionnis. I had to look this guy up.

He doesn't belong in EVE. He needs to go back to WoW, or Star Trek Online, or whatever kiddie ride he came from. He wants perfect safety, which is a phrase people like to use to claim that they should be allowed to pretend like other players don't exist. In a sandbox game, many consider such an attitude a capital crime. Personally I think he can go get stuffed, he doesn't want to play EVE, he wants to make EVE like every other game out there, and screw the people who like it just fine the way it is. Some of us don't take that kind of crap too well.

Quote:
People are leaving this game, daily, because they cannot handle the harassment, the griefing, the scamming, and the constant fear of losing everything they own or a chunk of their paycheck because of some opportunistic ass with an itchy F1 finger.


Good. I'd rather they not sub, than they sub and act out later because this game isn't WoW in space.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2014-03-15 02:00:19 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:

Welcome to the sandbox.

EvE is not a sandbox to start with its a theme park.

A PvP sandbox game is a game in which players develop tactics using objects placed in the sandbox by the developers, and other players develop ways to counter those tactics using the same or other objects. The developer acts as a referee. Their role is to place objects in the sandbox and modify the sandbox if certain tactics develop that become theme park (the only practical way to play the game).

In EvE the objects are ships, structures, modules and game mechanics.

Now having been in EvE since 2003 I have had the fortune to observe how EVE has developed and how the developers have added, removed and modified ships, structures, modules and mechanics over the entire 11 years of EvE's life.

In early EvE it was somewhat of a sandbox, there was high, low, null. Players who dared went to null and created empires. They fought over those empires using ships, modules and mechanics. Those that were really brave went 60 jumps into null, carved out an existence whilst fighting against other players. They formed fleets of ships and convoy's to bring back the loots of null. It was all player driven. To take someones space meant forming up a fleet and killing those other players, as many times as they had the spirit to try to stop you. You could be as creative as you wanted, you could do hit and run, you could scout and attack with massive force, you could solo pirate them. It was entirely player driven.

In comparison to the themepark we have now, which is basically "CCP's way" or the "Highway". You can hold space without being in system, you can go to bed while a megafleet is reinforcing your POS safe in the knowledge it'll be completely safe for at least 24 hours. You can't do hit and run attacks. There are no convoys to raid.

There is ONE WAY, the themepark way, to take sov, hold sov and use sov. Supercaps, structures, reinforcement timers, jump bridges and cyno's take the emergent gameplay out of the game because those things are so useful its foolish to do anything any other way.

The same goes for most of the mechanics in game now. If you want to gank a freighter you use catalysts, if you want to fleet up and protect your freighter, well you can't. If you want to tank the freighter, well you can't. About the only sandbox thing you can do is use an unintended feature "webbing" which was only intended to be a hostile module to try get it into warp before its scrammed by an out of corp alt that you can't hurt, because its a disposable alt.

A few years ago, after the alliancse became dominant to the extent null was a waste of time for creating casual content I created a corporation. It was a new idea thought up by me, a player. It involved offering players in game a privateers marque to enable them to fight back against the alliances in game.

It worked and it was effective. We patrolled high sec like the alliances patrolled null sec and we took the fight back to the alliances. They could have fought back, they could have arranged an extension of escorts or even psuedo-domination of parts of highsec to secure routes for their members but they chose to complain to CCP.

CCP nerfed the emergent gameplay and it was back to the themepark for the alliances.






CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Karon Grandolf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2014-03-15 02:04:01 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Karon Grandolf wrote:

In another similar thread I asked C C P Manifest about this, but he denied my questions, simply ignored them.
Actually you asked CCP Manifest a question he'd already answered. If you read the post that you've linked he clearly says that as posted in his previous post, which he quoted for your convenience, CCP are seeing both new players and returning players, which suggests new accounts being opened and old ones being reactivated.

The difference between new accounts and new players is negligible, any new account is new business, regardless of whether it's a genuine newbie or from an existing customer.


At the time I didn't want to correct C C C Manifest cause I wanted answers to my questions. I didn't want to nitpick cause it can drive the attention away from the main topic. But since you do, he did NOT deliver the answer in said previous post.

He mentioned players, new and returning, but I was unsure how 'players' in this context is counted. His 'answer' didn't even clarify this.


New players are different from new accounts. It should be well known that a lot of players have several accounts. Several accounts are controlled and played by the same individual, sometimes multiboxing etc.

Now, it can be difficult to distinguish between the two for sure, but not impossible to create an estimate based on IP adresses and/or credit card numbers for instance. To understand how the playerbase evolves in your game, it would be useful to have these numbers.

Both new accounts and new players are indeed new business, but the quality of the business is different. A new account for an established player can be considered a consolidation of business for instance. This is not true for a new player trying the game for the first time.

I was asking for data to exactly confirm or dismiss the idea that the difference between new accounts and new players is neglible. Do you have data to back up that claim? If so, would you be willing to share? Would CCP?


Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2014-03-15 02:13:49 UTC
You know, if I heard about a cut throat PvP all the time video game, first thing I'd do is want to stream my first experiences. Especially if I wanted attention.

Aside from that, here is my testimonial that I give in all such threads:

I was ganked. I was ganked 3 weeks into the game and lost my Venture and 40mil worth of implants. Those implants I got as some sort of signup bonus from CCP. I certainly didn't have 40mil to buy another. I didn't freak out, QQ in local, posting on the forums about ebil gankers, or threaten eternal damnation upon the guy who ganked me. I woke up in my clone vat... wondered what happened... then I figured it out.. I'd been killed by another player... OMG THIS GAME IS FREAKIN' AMAZING!!!! I made friends with that guy, he sent me some great "staying alive in space" tips that I still use to this day. Although I was terrible at it and I don't remember finding him a single target, I started scanning ships for him in Dodixie. Without that experience, I would have rescued that freakin' damsel for a couple of months and then quit this game for something else. Instead I've been playing for 15mo, approximately 10mo longer than any previous MMO.


There are some players that are rude and crude in local and emails. My wife wondered if it would be OK if my teenage son played Eve with me. I said no because a video game wasn't the right forum for him to learn about anal sex. The people who spew the most vial hate in chat are what bother me. But that's why I don't play X-Box live with a headset, because I don't need to know who slept with my mother last night.

The liars, cheats, scammers, pirates, gankers, awoxers, those are things that make this game worth playing. Without bad guys, the game would be boring. You get a tiny rush in this game just by clicking "Undock". Without made up enemies to smite, where is the fun?

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#116 - 2014-03-15 02:16:31 UTC
I will never understand why people demand CCP change EVE entirely when games such as STO exist which offer exactly what they want.
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#117 - 2014-03-15 02:19:17 UTC
Its because more players these days want to role play as the bad guy.

Ironically these are usually the same people who take one glance at my alliance ticker and go "lolroleplayers".

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2014-03-15 02:22:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I will never understand why people demand CCP change EVE entirely when games such as STO exist which offer exactly what they want.

Because we play EVE, its marketed as a sandbox game, it should be a sandbox game. The developers should be performing their required role as developers of a sandbox game which is to act as referee's. They are not. The game play is stagnant. The so-called emergent gameplay is ganking (been in game since M0o and Zombie), the PvP is largely still spawn point based (been in game since 2003), the sov warefare is themepark (theres only one way to do it), the ships are imbalanced to the extent one hull, class or module (supers, caps, blops, cyno's, cats, archons) are used to the exclusion of any emergent new methods / tactics.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#119 - 2014-03-15 02:24:15 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I will never understand why people demand CCP change EVE entirely when games such as STO exist which offer exactly what they want.

Because we play EVE, its marketed as a sandbox game, it should be a sandbox game. The developers should be performing their required role as developers of a sandbox game which is to act as referee's. They are not. The game play is stagnant. The so-called emergent gameplay is ganking (been in game since M0o and Zombie), the PvP is largely still spawn point based (been in game since 2003), the sov warefare is themepark (theres only one way to do it), the ships are imbalanced to the extent one hull, class or module (supers, caps, blops, cyno's, cats, archons) are used to the exclusion of any emergent new methods / tactics.



So, how's it going with those pocos? Are they still sov structures?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Anslo
Scope Works
#120 - 2014-03-15 02:24:25 UTC
KuroVolt wrote:
Its because more players these days want to role play as the bad guy.

Ironically these are usually the same people who take one glance at my alliance ticker and go "lolroleplayers".

They ain't saying that when CVA hot drops and steam rolls.

Provi block OP.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]