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[Serious Discussion] This game's community leaves much to be desired

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Author
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#81 - 2014-03-14 19:02:03 UTC
There's old stories about Pirate Codes and such. A bygone age where Pirates were Pirates and Griefers were persona non grata. I wasn't around for those days, so maybe it's all fanciful hindsight... but these days the lines are very very blurred. There's still some classy pirates* left though... so there is hope.

Being an honorable pirate isn't really about following the rules. It's about following your own rules, or the rules of a greater Piracy community that seeks to maintain its supply of victims. If you run victims out of the game, you find your waters sparsely populated. You have to give them a reason to keep playing and providing you a target.

I think James 315's New Order does that. They offer the chance to be 'protected' under their permit system. They don't want to exterminate high-sec miners. They just want to raid them, loot them, and keep them around for another go! So they tell the miners if they pay 10 million, they won't get shot again. There's always the immoral agent who shoots them anyways, but it gives the miners a sense that maybe things will be okay. It's still piracy, it's racketeering, it's extortion... but it's sustainable.

Maybe that's the word I'm looking for. Sustainable piracy. Sustainable griefing. Sustainable scamming. Making sure that you don't destroy your own prey population in the process of being a predator. A balanced ecosystem of Pirate and Carebear.

I think, in my time, I'd like to see more of the EVE playerbase get back to that mentality.


*- Vote Psychotic Monk for CSM9!

Katrina Oniseki

Anslo
Scope Works
#82 - 2014-03-14 19:12:19 UTC
Some of us gave up talking and simply acted to back up our stance. Try it sometime.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#83 - 2014-03-14 19:17:35 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Some of us gave up talking and simply acted to back up our stance. Try it sometime.


I was going to honor you as an example of it, but you've told me IC you're not a pirate so many times I didn't want to say it OOC too.

Regardless, good job!

Katrina Oniseki

Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Lord of Worlds Alliance
#84 - 2014-03-14 19:22:43 UTC
Maybe they treat Eve like real life because it is their real life. Like, maybe they have nothing going on in their life apart from Eve? Just a thought.
Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2014-03-14 19:44:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:


Incidentally, the leading cause for people quitting is trying to go it alone and treating the game as your average content-consumption themepark game.



citation needed.

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2014-03-14 19:50:36 UTC
All PvP games die with the following first step:

* lets force people to be nice

New players have absolutely no trouble in EVE unless they bring undo attention to themselves.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#87 - 2014-03-14 19:56:33 UTC
It's a game. Stop getting so emotionally attached to it, and you will enjoy it more.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#88 - 2014-03-14 19:56:39 UTC
Pandora Barzane wrote:
citation needed.
CSM8 August minutes, Session 5.
Emelia Aurgnet
Doomheim
#89 - 2014-03-14 20:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Emelia Aurgnet
Sentamon wrote:
All PvP games die with the following first step:

* lets force people to be nice

New players have absolutely no trouble in EVE unless they bring undo attention to themselves.



Agree with this as long as it's not briefing. That's a fine line.

I was once killed by someone who noticed my player was new and refunded the money (and more actually) and encourageed me over an email. He knew how to farm without killing the soil. I've noticed players go to great lengths to help new players in general.

That is unlike any community out there, even the level of discourse in chat arguments is very informed.

Everybody's so effing smart in here. I love it.
--

PS, notice Tippia's signature (above this post)? That's great stuff.
Anslo
Scope Works
#90 - 2014-03-14 20:01:30 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Some of us gave up talking and simply acted to back up our stance. Try it sometime.


I was going to honor you as an example of it, but you've told me IC you're not a pirate so many times I didn't want to say it OOC too.

Regardless, good job!

We prefer the term vigilante.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Anomaly One
Doomheim
#91 - 2014-03-14 20:03:37 UTC
when the sign says "here be dragons"
DID YOU THINK THERE WAS ******* TELETUBIES ON THE OTHER SIDE?




p.s: your posts and dinsdales and a couple of others have an awkward amount of likes.

Psychotic Monk for CSM9 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=326497 you want content in highsec? vote Monk

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#92 - 2014-03-14 20:07:49 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
There are no babies in Eve, therefore nobody is kicking babies in the teeth, which don't appear for a few months btw, to steal their candy. The nearest equivalent is newbies, and to be honest they have nothing worth stealing unless they decided to try the P2W route and purchase their way up the foodchain, which invariably ends in disillusionment and tears for them, and a healthy profit for others.


More to the point, they're babies in the sense that they're largely ignorant of how the game works, and abjectly dependant on both an indifferent parent (the tutorials) and other people in the game (live or via blogs and wikis) to learn. If you enjoy lording your knowledge of the game over other people and taking advantage of whatever preconceptions they might have, they're easy prey and they're incapable of fighting back effectively, so they're more likely to helplessly resort to OOC threats and complaints--tears, basically. Not only do you get to savor the tears, you get the additional thrill of reporting them.

That's why you can't gank in the newbie systems, although, predictably, that prohibition only dares people to see how closely they can toe the line.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#93 - 2014-03-14 20:21:23 UTC
Very well put. This needed to be said for a long time.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#94 - 2014-03-14 20:32:47 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:

More to the point, they're babies in the sense that they're largely ignorant of how the game works, and abjectly dependant on both an indifferent parent (the tutorials) and other people in the game (live or via blogs and wikis) to learn.
We've all been there, some of us even learnt from it.

Quote:
If you enjoy lording your knowledge of the game over other people and taking advantage of whatever preconceptions they might have, they're easy prey and they're incapable of fighting back effectively, so they're more likely to helplessly resort to OOC threats and complaints--tears, basically. Not only do you get to savor the tears, you get the additional thrill of reporting them.

That's why you can't gank in the newbie systems, although, predictably, that prohibition only dares people to see how closely they can toe the line.
Not that many people actually pick on newbies, most players are incredibly supportive of newbies that are willing to accept Eve for what it is, especially if they possess a healthy attitude towards it. However some newbies, and some players that should know better through experience, seem to do nothing but pick faults with a game that in all honesty they aren't suited to. They expect the game to change for them, instead of adapting to the game. They pretty much deserve everything they get, if only because they're either trolling, or trying to turn a game that many of us are quite happy to play, despite its harsh nature, into something it is not.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Anslo
Scope Works
#95 - 2014-03-14 21:07:44 UTC
You talk too much. Change doesn't happen by talk. I learned that. Others did too. We're growing, we're training, and we're not stopping.
We don't like the attitude of some. You wanna change it like we do? Grab your guns and stop feeding the trolls.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#96 - 2014-03-14 21:32:42 UTC
I'll happily chime in.

As the CEO of a PVP corp of the newest SOV holding entity, BRAVE Collective, of HERO Coalition - I love this post.

I could not agree with your sentiments harder. I love your post so hard that I want to take it out to dinner, tell it sweet nothings, get married by eloping to the Caribbean, settle down, and make little baby posts that can run around spreading their wee little message of culture (and odd imagery).

Joking aside, THIS is the only thing that I do worry about in EVE. BRAVE, in general, was created with the idea that 1) newbies can have fun, and should have fun, from day one and 2) you don't have to be an **shole to have fun. And let me tell you, an Alliance running around espousing those sentiments has drawn in some hateful, spiteful, ugly people who try to camp us daily. They purposefully will camp pipes in order to ONLY gank the newbies coming to join us, and won't fight an older player. Local is filled with sperging hatred several times a day, TMC comments are downright mean, and Reddit .... well, nuff said, "Reddit". And dear-god-in-heaven, when we took those 2 Sov systems, it seems like we opened a portal to a new level of hate against us. Local chat makes my eyes bleed now.

Funny thing though - Brave Newbies has become Brave Collective. Then it became part of HERO. It now has Sov. In spite of all the 'bittervets' constantly talking down to us, or calling our members names, or making fun of us, we've grown to become one of the largest entities in the game. How?

Because we celebrate our members. We joke about ourselves, but never about our enemies or each other. We cheer for our enemy's victory in battle as much as we applaud our own. And if a newer member does something over the line? We pull them aside and tell them "No. That is not our way, friend." We are trying our very best to change this culture (TEST - to your credit - you are using racial slurs less now, so thank you :P). An entirely crazy notion - we play this game to have fun, and want the same for you.

I didn't just fall in line with the mantra when I joined, obviously. I've always been this way myself. I've got more than one post on my blog about this subject - or ones near enough the subject - including one post that garnered tens of thousands of views that was about the fact that we the good folk in EVE far outweigh the little sh**stains of evil.

We chose Brave over other, established null entities that wanted us to fold in with them because Brave's philosophy was in line with our own. Frankly, I know we're making a difference out there. I see it. Let's hope it continues.

7o
Anslo
Scope Works
#97 - 2014-03-14 21:43:03 UTC
As I said before, and as evidenced by the actions of the above poster, and other groups promoting more positive outlooks for Eve;
We are growing, and we wont be stopped.

The times are changing.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2014-03-14 22:00:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pandora Barzane wrote:
citation needed.
CSM8 August minutes, Session 5.



those werent actual figures, more best guesses from ccp. go on, show me actual measure data of people who quit eve because they playing solo.

Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#99 - 2014-03-14 22:04:55 UTC
There's a lot of good too... I typically fully reimburse noobs when I happen to blow them up. I know a lot of other people that do too. In my experience, this is the rule for vets more than the exception. Are there total d-bags in game? You bet. For the most part I am one... but when it comes to newer players you might be surprised how accommodating most vets are. Just don't undock in some officer fit mission ship and call yourself a noob. If whatever you fly is over a billion ISK and you're new to the game I'll kill you on principal.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2014-03-14 22:43:04 UTC
A lot of the idiocy in game stems from players inability to get kills easily. Unfortunately EVE's fleet fights and its advertising campaigns show a vision of hundreds to thousands of targets, apparently in a never ending stream of brave suicidal supply.

The reality is anything but - the aspiring w.. ganker logs in hoping to be an evil pirate but then finds himself confronted by high sec and gets repeatedly ganked by concord...

So he moves to low, and finds himself sitting at a low sec gate watching cloaky haulers zipping by unable to be se... molested.

So now we have a loser, who would be better off in an FPS, hanging around in EvE unable to get kills because of a lack of patience, logic, intelligence.

Those losers gravitate towards each other of course and then we have blobs of losers who lack the ability to get kills. . .

So they exploit as far as they can around the grey area's of the game..

Disclaimer: I'm using exploit in this case correctly, not the EvE version which usually means CCP doesn't approve, but may not necessarily be an exploit in regards of the actual definition of the word.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)